güero

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His name is Robert Paulson. I'll see if I can get it down to 5.5-6k, that feels better. Also seems like you can buy a new bicolor only with a white dial, that is not only ugly, but definitely not vulgar enough.
 

Journeyman

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The Foo makes (in my opinion) a sensible post in the watch thread over on SF:

https://www.styleforum.net/threads/...jaeger-lecoultre.518128/page-704#post-9452730

"Guys. All watch brands are marketing exercises. At least Rolex and Patek have the actual history and track records to go along with the glossy advertising.

It may be silly to buy watches as an investment, but it is even sillier to delude yourself into believing you are buying a "time-telling tool" or "mechanical innovation." These are obsolete mechanisms that are of purely nostalgic and romantic value. So, real history should hold a premium over fabricated history. That is why certain makes hold a special place above others and will continue to."


Of course, other posters then misunderstand his post - whether because they're being deliberately obtuse or not, I don't know - and choose to focus on minor points, such as his subsequent mention of the lug design on Patek Calatrava watches, rather than addressing and discussing his actual point.

Quite a good discussion ensued.
 

doghouse

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The Foo makes (in my opinion) a sensible post in the watch thread over on SF:

https://www.styleforum.net/threads/...jaeger-lecoultre.518128/page-704#post-9452730

"Guys. All watch brands are marketing exercises. At least Rolex and Patek have the actual history and track records to go along with the glossy advertising.

It may be silly to buy watches as an investment, but it is even sillier to delude yourself into believing you are buying a "time-telling tool" or "mechanical innovation." These are obsolete mechanisms that are of purely nostalgic and romantic value. So, real history should hold a premium over fabricated history. That is why certain makes hold a special place above others and will continue to."

Of course, other posters then misunderstand his post - whether because they're being deliberately obtuse or not, I don't know - and choose to focus on minor points, such as his subsequent mention of the lug design on Patek Calatrava watches, rather than addressing and discussing his actual point.

Quite a good discussion ensued.
Kind of. I mean plenty of brands have as much if not more history than those two. The marketing exercise point is well taken though.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Watches are worse than cars as a luxury item when it comes to pseuds.

As I have no male heir, I can't be enticed with this handing it over to the next generation aspiration, so I am really only interested in the next 40 years. I've accepted my fate as lots of mid-range watches, including some Quartz and maybe one or two watches pushing the Tudor/Omega/Rolex/Jaeger-LeCoultre enevelope.
 

prince nez

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Why would you mount and automatic watch on a leather fob again? Especially one which, judging by the exaggeratedly recessed crown, probably doesn’t hand-wind and actually requires wrist movement to run...

5603C949-9B67-4C3B-A0E3-D5AB949A09CE.jpeg
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Aye, Stowa, a major supplier to the Luftwaffe as were Lange who were also a favourite of Der Fuehrer. He give a Lange pocketwatch to his personal physician as a gift
And all the Brit watchmakers fell by the wayside: Smiths and Sewills. Or if you class Rolex as English, relocated to Switzerland and became a non-profit organisation.
 

Journeyman

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The Smith W10 was the model for many flight watches of the early jet era.
Yes, they made a really nice, military-style aviator watch and you can easily find Smith military-issue watches from the late 1960s in very nice condition for US$1500 or so.

However, if you want a Rolex Submariner from the same period, you'll be very lucky to get any change from US$20,000. If the dial has turned a yucky brown colour, or if it has some red lettering on the dial, you'll pay tens of thousands of dollars more.

I find it fascinating that we humans can be so intelligent and yet our emotions can be so easily manipulated by marketing and the attitudes of those around us.
 

formby

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Yes, they made a really nice, military-style aviator watch and you can easily find Smith military-issue watches from the late 1960s in very nice condition for US$1500 or so.

However, if you want a Rolex Submariner from the same period, you'll be very lucky to get any change from US$20,000. If the dial has turned a yucky brown colour, or if it has some red lettering on the dial, you'll pay tens of thousands of dollars more.

I find it fascinating that we humans can be so intelligent and yet our emotions can be so easily manipulated by marketing and the attitudes of those around us.
The market for vintage Rolex is insane, Tulip level insane...
 

fxh

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The market for vintage Rolex is insane, Tulip level insane...
Don’t Rolex have a business plan a bit like South African diamonds etc , and they bid up on second hand used ones, sorry, vintage, to keep the price up and hold some back from market to create shortage.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Check out Wiki and other sources on the Net:
''Rolex SA is owned by the private Hans Wilsdorf Foundation, which is registered as a charity and does not pay corporate income taxes.. So basically, Rolex pays their employees and give the rest of their profit to charity, that's why they are considered a 'non-profit company'.''
 

formby

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Don’t Rolex have a business plan a bit like South African diamonds etc , and they bid up on second hand used ones, sorry, vintage, to keep the price up and hold some back from market to create shortage.
No, Rolex have little, too no influence on the vintage market, they prefer you to buy new.

There are 2 phenomena at the mo.

Rolex can't, or won't keep up with demand for their professional watches. 2nd hand prices of the current models are fetching more than retail and Rolex don't seem to want to put their prices up to match these prices. Basically you will pay more (several thousand in fact) for a 2nd hand Submariner (current model 2007 on) than you will pay retail (if you can get one that is). Certain new models that find their way onto the grey market are fetching at least twice retail (Certain versions of the Daytona the new Pepsi GMT &c.)

The vintage (previous versions of current models, long discontinued models) Rolex market is stupid, and doesn't show any signs of slowing down soon.
 

Journeyman

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Agree with formby formby .

As far as I'm aware, PP buys up old models as it actually has a Patek museum where it exhibits them, and some people consider that this distorts the second-hand market for PP watches.

The frenzy around Rolex seems mainly driven by Asia and by Instagram.

I've even seen Instagram posts where people have posted a pic of an old Submariner with a faded dial and a faded bezel that is actually chipped, with a bit missing from the bezel, and commenters were virtually having orgasms over the watch, commenting on how cool it was, how great the patina was, how it would have such a great story etc etc.

What "story" could it possibly have, when he'd only recently acquired the watch? "Oh yeah, I bought it from a second-hand watch shop... but they assured me that the person who'd previously owned it had been a real man and had lots of adventures..."?!?! If I'd owned it for decades and those scratches, chips and so on were because I'd worn it while flying/diving/trekking etc, then that's fine - but I wouldn't want to buy a watch like that. I'd want a watch that looked as new/pristine as possible so I could put my own wear on it.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Agree with formby formby .

As far as I'm aware, PP buys up old models as it actually has a Patek museum where it exhibits them, and some people consider that this distorts the second-hand market for PP watches.

The frenzy around Rolex seems mainly driven by Asia and by Instagram.

I've even seen Instagram posts where people have posted a pic of an old Submariner with a faded dial and a faded bezel that is actually chipped, with a bit missing from the bezel, and commenters were virtually having orgasms over the watch, commenting on how cool it was, how great the patina was, how it would have such a great story etc etc.

What "story" could it possibly have, when he'd only recently acquired the watch? "Oh yeah, I bought it from a second-hand watch shop... but they assured me that the person who'd previously owned it had been a real man and had lots of adventures..."?!?! If I'd owned it for decades and those scratches, chips and so on were because I'd worn it while flying/diving/trekking etc, then that's fine - but I wouldn't want to buy a watch like that. I'd want a watch that looked as new/pristine as possible so I could put my own wear on it.
The elusive quality of provenance and time.....same with all antiques and of course craftsmanship, or build quality. I don't think the market in vintage Rolex's is going to crash anytime soon.
 

Journeyman

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The elusive quality of provenance and time.....same with all antiques and of course craftsmanship, or build quality. I don't think the market in vintage Rolex's is going to crash anytime soon.
Not all antiques - plenty of old tat out there that's been the family for generations but that you'd be lucky to get a fiver for.

Same with cars - if you've got an old Porsche or Ferrari, some people will throw money at you even if it's falling apart and been stored under a tree for the past couple of decades, but if you've got a 1970s Toyota Corolla with cracked paint and the suspension's gone, you'll have trouble giving it away!

There are plenty of other old watches - in much better condition than some of the Submariners out there - that no-one cares about. I think that the real reason here is Rolex's excellent marketing over decades so that it has seeped into our psyche, reinforced by social media hype.

I do agree that the market in vintage Rolex watches is unlikely to crash. Having said that, though, I'm certainly not going to go out and spend a ludicrous amount of money on an old watch simply because it's got some red lettering on the dial instead of the more normal white lettering.
 

doghouse

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Yeah, fuck that.

I like vintage watches, but for what they are. I pick up turn of the century stuff from Vacheron from time to time, and it costs a fraction of vintage Rolex
 
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