A personal note from Silvano Lattanzi

[The Shooman]

Lattanzi could be the only shoemaker who doesn't need to compromise because he has the jet setting clientele who will pay whatever his asking price is.

No compromises
1). He buries some of his shoes in bog pits where his clients come by on occasions to see if their shoes have enough of a natural patina.
2). He will completely redo a shoe if it is not perfect.
3). Every shoe model he has ever made has a copy made of it and put in Mr Lattanzi's shoe museum. He has 4,000 pairs in his museum.
4). Much of the Lattanzi leather is said to be unrivalled, even by Hermes' these days.

In 1991 Mr Lattanzi bought all of the luxury and vintage leather from Pebody in England. He has a stock of vintage leather that is said to be better than any maker has access to in the world these days. My shoemaker worked with some of the best makers in England and Italy, and he travelled the world checking out the top bespoke shoemakers; he told me that no-one is using a quality of leather like Lattanzi does. I think l also recall Lattanzi saying that the leather used for shoemaking these days is not suitable for making quality shoes, and it explains why he bought the entire leather supply from the merchant Pebody many years ago.

When it comes to alligator polo boots Mr Lattanzi will search the world for high quality skins that can only be gotten from twin alligators/crocs. One skin per boot, and the only way they can match scale patterns is for the reptiles to be twins. No compromises! It might cost well over 75,000 GBP for a pair, but Mr Lattanzi believes in only the best with NO COMPROMISES.

The 75,000 GBP alligator polo boots using the skins of twin alligators to get a perfect scale match.


Silvano Lattanzi's buried shoes.
Truly great patinas, and his clients get it. Some of my favourite Lattanzi's are the buried shoes. Works of art. No-one does what Mr Lattanzi does. My favourite shoemaker by far.

Look at that great colour tan that Lattanzi gets. Apparently he gets this unique colour because of the vintage leather he uses. Lattanzi's eye popping browns are incredible in real life. When l got my first Lattanzi shoe and saw the eye popping vintage tan, it was the most amazing colour and shoe l had ever seen. That's why he is my favourite, his styles and colours are beyond amazing.

His clients come by and ask to see their shoes in the pit bog to check how the antiquing is progressing.

Beauty in a way that only Mr Lattanzi can do it.

True Craftmanship - Silvano Lattanzi

www.silvanolattanzi.com

The story of the buries shoes:

The Buried Shoes - Silvano Lattanzi

The seasoning of the shoes in the pits is an amazing aging process of the lather which gain nuances and shades so peculiar that cannot be reproduced.

www.silvanolattanzi.com

About Us - Silvano Lattanzi

Today , after 40 years, the Silvano Lattanzi brand is reknown by many 'appassionati' followers.We are a reference point throughout the world.

www.silvanolattanzi.com

Why other shoemakers are making compromises due to time restraints, Mr Lattanzi is pushing the limits of shoemaking and making dreams come true.
No-one has the genius artistic mind that Lattanzi does IMO. His shoes are the best l have ever seen, and l do believe they are the best in the world bar none (the leather quality).

Having said that they are the best, they still use staples in parts of the heel like robertito pointed out. The shoes Robertito posted looked a mess, but maybe they had been repaired by other makers before hand. The Lattanzi's l have seen look clean.

 

[LeFoo1]

Very interesting...one of those things where I doubt I'll ever like but still appreciate their existence.

 

[The Shooman]

It is impossible to describe how good the styles of Lattanzi shoes are. You either get it or you don't. For me personally, l completely get it, and I think I understand Mr Lattanzi's mindset. He shows what is truly possible in shoemaking. He leads the way.

You know why l love Lattanzi far more than any other shoemaker in the world? It is because he makes shoes that look `old world'. No crazy modern fake Berluti patina, but instead a real looking patina.

For example, look at the green antiquing on these loafers. It actually looks like vintage antiquing and something from many years ago.

Old antiquing on the toe. None of this flashy modern antiquing.


Now for the best stuff. Real old world style shoos. No-one does anything remotely like this. They are like something from the past when luxury was real luxury. These are not like the `nouveau riche' shoes you see from bespoke makers these days. This is why l say Lattanzi is a genius.

pics from here:

Lattanzi Visit + Shoe Porn

I did a little shopping in NYC last week looking for a few new pairs of shoes and had heard Lattanzi was one of the best. Their prices had gone up a little more than I was expecting but was looking mainly to figure out which of their house lasts fit me the best because some of their patinas are...

www.askandyaboutclothes.com

Of course Lattanzi caters to everyone. He also does real plonkers and stinkers, and he also does nouveau riche. He also does perhaps the most tasteless shoes ever made like these below, but he understands that some eccentrics probably love them:



Not sure if these are Lattanzi (might not be because they don't have the hand written sock)

 

[LeFoo1]

It is impossible to describe how good the styles of Lattanzi shoes are. You either get it or you don't. For me personally, l completely get it, and I think I understand Mr Lattanzi's mindset. He shows what is truly possible in shoemaking. He leads the way.

You know why l love Lattanzi far more than any other shoemaker in the world? It is because he makes shoes that look `old world'. No crazy modern fake Berluti patina, but instead a real looking patina.

For example, look at the green antiquing on these loafers. It actually looks like vintage antiquing and something from many years ago.
View attachment 41749

Old antiquing on the toe. None of this flashy modern antiquing.
View attachment 41750

Now for the best stuff. Real old world style shoos. No-one does anything remotely like this. They are like something from the past when luxury was real luxury. These are not like the `nouveau riche' shoes you see from bespoke makers these days. This is why l say Lattanzi is a genius.
View attachment 41751View attachment 41752

pics from here:

Lattanzi Visit + Shoe Porn

I did a little shopping in NYC last week looking for a few new pairs of shoes and had heard Lattanzi was one of the best. Their prices had gone up a little more than I was expecting but was looking mainly to figure out which of their house lasts fit me the best because some of their patinas are...

www.askandyaboutclothes.com

Of course Lattanzi caters to everyone. He also does real plonkers and stinkers, and he also does nouveau riche. He also does perhaps the most tasteless shoes ever made like these below, but he understands that some eccentrics probably love them:

View attachment 41754

Not sure if these are Lattanzi (might not be because they don't have the hand written sock)
View attachment 41753

Sounds like what some crazy (in an endearing way) Japanese enthusiasts would do.

Btw, what's the point of using the best leather if the shoes are gonna be marinated? I would've thought you'd want to show the leather's raw form if it's nice, the leather's quality would be compromised or hidden after all these processes.

I know close to nothing about leathers and shoes. But the shoes have a somewhat wooden quality to it - almost look like they're carved out of something.

 

[The Shooman]

Sounds like what some crazy (in an endearing way) Japanese enthusiasts would do.

yep

Btw, what's the point of using the best leather if the shoes are gonna be marinated? I would've thought you'd want to show the leather's raw form if it's nice, the leather's quality would be compromised or hidden after all these processes.

High quality leather shows, even when it is dyed black. It has a tight grain which gives it a unique look, feel and shine. Lattanzi is unique in that it only uses one cut per hide.

Mr Lattanzi says:
"When the leather used is of high quality......even the colors like black and the dark brown assume......a shininess and light and a transparency worthy of the most refined porcelain"

I know close to nothing about leathers and shoes. But the shoes have a somewhat wooden quality to it - almost look like they're carved out of something.

I like that comment, they do. I saw a pair last night that looked like wood, an amazing pair.

Other Lattanzi l like:

beautiful red antique (not grain corrected). Amazing how he did it. To me that is real old school stuff, like going back in time.

One of my favourite styles, an American plain toe derby in shell. A $12,000 shoo roughly.

One of these selling on ebay currently.

Nice antiquing examples

Gotta love these. My kind of style. Look at that antiquing and colours. Real Lattanzi.

My pair. A stunning pair in real life. The colouring and antique is the best l own.

Check out this rascal. Have yopu ever seen anything as beautiful. This is a shoe l would love to own. Look at that antiquing and colour scheme. Very classic Lattanzi.

Another great pair of antiqued red. Very old school classic once again. It is like you would visit an aristocrat castle and see these shoes inside.

Posting these pictures trying to show why these shoes are so good. The antiquing is so natural on these pairs, and they exude class and wealth in a good way. They look like grand old shoos. They are not shoos for showoffs and light weights, they are shoos for big daddies who mean business.

 

[fxh]

I think a lot of his stories are just mythmaking and marketing - good on him - its fair game.

But the rally interesting bit is the burying the shoes in mud and water - expensive shoes - new.

Makes you giggle about all those young blokes worrying about getting their new shoes a bit wet in the rain.

 

[robertito]

It seems that Lattanzi manufactures shoes in the same way that Weston does. In some shoes he doesn't carve the holdfast but he raises one from the actual insole, that reinforces later with a piece of cloth around the whole area. I think that this the way the system transitioned from hand welt to goodyear welting. Nowadays there is no wall built, of full piece of cloth attach and only the cloth rib stapled on the sole.,

Lattanzi hand stitches the welt here.

 

[The Shooman]

It seems that Lattanzi manufactures shoes in the same way that Weston does. In some shoes he doesn't carve the holdfast but he raises one from the actual insole, that reinforces later with a piece of cloth around the whole area. I think that this the way the system transitioned from hand welt to goodyear welting. Nowadays there is no wall built, of full piece of cloth attach and only the cloth rib stapled on the sole.,

Lattanzi hand stitches the welt here.

I put it to you that the insole you post here is not Lattanzi's original insole. None of the other Lattanzi insoles have that canvass on it, nor are his insoles cut and flipped up in the Weston or vintage Australian method. Being a shell cordovan shoe, l put it to you that the insole has been replaced with cheap leather, and maybe uses the flip up method of feather construction, and it looks like the cordwainer may have reinforced the insole/feather with canvass (a method suggested in shoemaking text books). Lattanzi does not do the shoddy looking work that you post here, that shoddy looking insole has been made by somebody else. That is just my intuition and understanding.

Here is some Lattanzi art. To me this is the best of Lattanzi. No-one does this type of work. If l went to Italy, these are the type of shoes i'd be ordering, ones dipped in the mud and given a glorious antiquing with a norvegse and bentivegna construction.

Loving the antiquing on that derby 2nd from left. Wish l owned that. WOW!!!

Have always loved that monk. A dream shoe.

Look at that amazing brogue. Now THAT is a shoo!!! Same goes with the boot. Forget LObb and Berluti, just give me that brogue in that colour and antiquing and i'd be a happy guy for life. Best shoo l have ever seen BY FAR!!!!

 

[robertito]

I am only a messenger. The guy that posted the pictures is saying that they are original Lattanzi. I don't have any reasons to believe they are not.

Out of the 3 of us he is the only one that supposedly has repaired a lattanzi shoe and has seen the guts of the shoes? I don't know why you trust Lattanzi so much.

He is the same one that sent me the other lattanzi pics. To be honest I find curious that he has repaired at least 2 lattanzis being such rare shoe

I will ask him again is they are the originals insoles. I am sure he can determine that. I have to say that in his original post he mentioned tha the quality of the handwelting was good. So I believe that the insoles were originals? (Unless the welt has been stitched twice)??

 

[The Shooman]

I am only a messenger. The guy that posted the pictures is saying that they are original Lattanzi. I don't have any reasons to believe they are not.

Out of the 3 of us he is the only one that supposedly has repaired a lattanzi shoe and has seen the guts of the shoes? I don't know why you trust Lattanzi so much.

He is the same one that sent me the other lattanzi pics. To be honest I find curious that he has repaired at least 2 lattanzis being such rare shoe

I will ask him again is they are the originals insoles. I am sure he can determine that. I have to say that in his original post he mentioned tha the quality of the handwelting was good. So I believe that the insoles were originals? (Unless the welt has been stitched twice)??

Can you tell him that none of the Lattanzi shoes I have seen made have that canvass on the insole, nor does the insole work look as shoddy as the pairs he repaired (look at that crooked feather on the insole, just awful).

Can you ask him if it's possible that the insole was made by some shoe repair person, since it doesn't resemble the work of Lattanzi IMO.

My suspicions = someone worn a hole through the outsole and insole of his Lattanzi shoe. A cobbler or shoemaker made a new insole using poor quality materials and rough craftsmanship and fixed it. YOUR guy is just pulling apart a repair job done by the previous repair guy.

robertito who is this bloke who took apart that Lattanzi? Is he a cobbler or shoemaker? What is his name?

 

[robertito]

The Shooman i have written to the shoemaker (not cobbler) when he replies to me I will report back.

Who is Son of Saphir? He seems to share your point of view in Lattanzi.

https://www.styleforum.net/threads/...s-impressions-questions.606734/#post-10885294

 

[The Shooman]

The Shooman i have written to the shoemaker (not cobbler) when he replies to me I will report back.

Who is Son of Saphir? He seems to share your point of view in Lattanzi.

https://www.styleforum.net/threads/...s-impressions-questions.606734/#post-10885294

I will tell you something robertito , there could be a few bombshells dropped in this thread soon.

 

[Thruth]

The Shooman i have written to the shoemaker (not cobbler) when he replies to me I will report back.

Who is Son of Saphir? He seems to share your point of view in Lattanzi.

https://www.styleforum.net/threads/...s-impressions-questions.606734/#post-10885294

Son of Saphir is a sock. Has a membership here.

 

[The Shooman]

SOS does sound like a caveman, but he does seem to have advanced knowledge.

 

[Sammy Ambrose]

Lattanzi could be the only shoemaker who doesn't need to compromise because he has the jet setting clientele who will pay whatever his asking price is.

No compromises
1). He buries some of his shoes in bog pits where his clients come by on occasions to see if their shoes have enough of a natural patina.
2). He will completely redo a shoe if it is not perfect.
3). Every shoe model he has ever made has a copy made of it and put in Mr Lattanzi's shoe museum. He has 4,000 pairs in his museum.
4). Much of the Lattanzi leather is said to be unrivalled, even by Hermes' these days.

In 1991 Mr Lattanzi bought all of the luxury and vintage leather from Pebody in England. He has a stock of vintage leather that is said to be better than any maker has access to in the world these days. My shoemaker worked with some of the best makers in England and Italy, and he travelled the world checking out the top bespoke shoemakers; he told me that no-one is using a quality of leather like Lattanzi does. I think l also recall Lattanzi saying that the leather used for shoemaking these days is not suitable for making quality shoes, and it explains why he bought the entire leather supply from the merchant Pebody many years ago.

When it comes to alligator polo boots Mr Lattanzi will search the world for high quality skins that can only be gotten from twin alligators/crocs. One skin per boot, and the only way they can match scale patterns is for the reptiles to be twins. No compromises! It might cost well over 75,000 GBP for a pair, but Mr Lattanzi believes in only the best with NO COMPROMISES.

View attachment 41734View attachment 41735

The 75,000 GBP alligator polo boots using the skins of twin alligators to get a perfect scale match.
View attachment 41736

Silvano Lattanzi's buried shoes.
Truly great patinas, and his clients get it. Some of my favourite Lattanzi's are the buried shoes. Works of art. No-one does what Mr Lattanzi does. My favourite shoemaker by far.

View attachment 41744

Look at that great colour tan that Lattanzi gets. Apparently he gets this unique colour because of the vintage leather he uses. Lattanzi's eye popping browns are incredible in real life. When l got my first Lattanzi shoe and saw the eye popping vintage tan, it was the most amazing colour and shoe l had ever seen. That's why he is my favourite, his styles and colours are beyond amazing.
View attachment 41745

His clients come by and ask to see their shoes in the pit bog to check how the antiquing is progressing.
View attachment 41743View attachment 41741View attachment 41737View attachment 41738View attachment 41739View attachment 41740View attachment 41743

Beauty in a way that only Mr Lattanzi can do it.
View attachment 41742

True Craftmanship - Silvano Lattanzi

www.silvanolattanzi.com

The story of the buries shoes:

The Buried Shoes - Silvano Lattanzi

The seasoning of the shoes in the pits is an amazing aging process of the lather which gain nuances and shades so peculiar that cannot be reproduced.

www.silvanolattanzi.com

About Us - Silvano Lattanzi

Today , after 40 years, the Silvano Lattanzi brand is reknown by many 'appassionati' followers.We are a reference point throughout the world.

www.silvanolattanzi.com

Why other shoemakers are making compromises due to time restraints, Mr Lattanzi is pushing the limits of shoemaking and making dreams come true.
No-one has the genius artistic mind that Lattanzi does IMO. His shoes are the best l have ever seen, and l do believe they are the best in the world bar none (the leather quality).

View attachment 41746View attachment 41747


Having said that they are the best, they still use staples in parts of the heel like robertito pointed out. The shoes Robertito posted looked a mess, but maybe they had been repaired by other makers before hand. The Lattanzi's l have seen look clean.
View attachment 41748

Amazing story, Shooey. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Sammy Ambrose]

I think a lot of his stories are just mythmaking and marketing - good on him - its fair game.

But the rally interesting bit is the burying the shoes in mud and water - expensive shoes - new.

Makes you giggle about all those young blokes worrying about getting their new shoes a bit wet in the rain.

I was on my way to give away to my ironing man a pair of overpolished and museumed-looking Loakes when by chance I read about the burying. I shall now take pics and try and flog them for s pretty penny on EBay.

 

[The Shooman]

The best shoe l have ever seen in person, my new pair. Looks much better in person, but l tried to capture its beauty. I call the Lattanzi browns the `Lattanzi woods'.

Check out this beauty. Can't stop looking at it. Everything about it is perfect. Has an antiqued look too (not so good in photo).




This is what it's all about. The vintage Lattanzi wood look is starting to take effect.

Gonna start adding two face plus lotion and deep rich moisteriser to set an excellent base; then finish off with mustard artists cream, cigar artists cream etc, topped with a wonderful medium brown wax. That will get it looking like old wood in no time. Very exciting.

That's why l get Lattanzi. Perfect last, perfect pattern, perfect construction, and looks better than any shoe in the world.


Lattanzi woods v's my best Edward Green woods

Lattanzi woods



Edward Green woods



The Edward Green woods look fantastic in person, but the leather isn't as good as Lattanzi, and it doesn't have the special handmade vintage look like the Lattanzi does. The comparison is not even close.

 

[Sammy Ambrose]

The best shoe l have ever seen in person, my new pair. Looks much better in person, but l tried to capture its beauty. I call the Lattanzi browns the `Lattanzi woods'.

Check out this beauty. Can't stop looking at it. Everything about it is perfect. Has an antiqued look too (not so good in photo).

View attachment 41845


This is what it's all about. The vintage Lattanzi wood look is starting to take effect.

Gonna start adding two face plus lotion and deep rich moisteriser to set an excellent base; then finish off with mustard artists cream, cigar artists cream etc, topped with a wonderful medium brown wax. That will get it looking like old wood in no time. Very exciting.

That's why l get Lattanzi. Perfect last, perfect pattern, perfect construction, and looks better than any shoe in the world.
View attachment 41846View attachment 41847View attachment 41848

Does that broad waist suit your tootsies, Shooey?

 

[The Shooman]

Does that broad waist suit your tootsies, Shooey?

The shoe is not broad in the waist, but it looks broad because of the wide welt. I never used to like the wide welt, and it took some getting used to, but now l have come to really embrace the beauty of it and realise it is also a special Lattanzi feature that actually makes the shoe look better. The wide welt is different to the average Allen Edmonds and Vass shoe which uses ugly wide wheeling marks; instead the Lattanzi uses a fine wheeling with high spi stitching on many of the soles which sets it apart. Lattanzi's wide welt is done artistically where-as with other makers like Vass and AE that is not so. It is a feature which takes time to appreciate. When l got my first pair of Lattanzi l was thinking about getting a shoemaker to trim the welt ...glad l never did, that would have ruined the look completely. You really need to own a pair to understand how thew wide welt works with the Lattanzi character, nothing else compares. As l have said, Lattanzi is a genius.....he uses the last combined with pattern with wide welt with vintage antiqued leather to create a masterpiece that is unique and natural looking.

I showed a shoe bloke my new Lattanzi and he was stunned. It looks amazing in person. Every time l look at it l just think WOW. My bespoke Cleverley is beautiful (made by the top Cleverley maker from Japan....completely perfect), but every Lattanzi l own has total WOW factor. They are the type of shoos you can't stop looking at.

Another of Iammat's Lattanzi.



Former Ask Andy members bespoke Lattanzi. Those on the bottom of picture are norvegese shell cordovans, they cost a fortune these days. Love the black shell 3 eyelet model, stunning Lattanzi greatness. Every one of his shoes are for the HUGE Big daddies. Lucky guy.

 

[Sammy Ambrose]

The shoe is not broad in the waist, but it looks broad because of the wide welt. I never used to like the wide welt, and it took some getting used to, but now l have come to really embrace the beauty of it and realise it is also a special Lattanzi feature that actually makes the shoe look better. The wide welt is different to the average Allen Edmonds and Vass shoe which uses ugly wide wheeling marks; instead the Lattanzi uses a fine wheeling with high spi stitching on many of the soles which sets it apart. Lattanzi's wide welt is done artistically where-as with other makers like Vass and AE that is not so. It is a feature which takes time to appreciate. When l got my first pair of Lattanzi l was thinking about getting a shoemaker to trim the welt ...glad l never did, that would have ruined the look completely. You really need to own a pair to understand how thew wide welt works with the Lattanzi character, nothing else compares. As l have said, Lattanzi is a genius.....he uses the last combined with pattern with wide welt with vintage antiqued leather to create a masterpiece that is unique and natural looking.

I showed a shoe bloke my new Lattanzi and he was stunned. It looks amazing in person. Every time l look at it l just think WOW. My bespoke Cleverley is beautiful (made by the top Cleverley maker from Japan....completely perfect), but every Lattanzi l own has total WOW factor. They are the type of shoos you can't stop looking at.

Another of Iammat's Lattanzi.
View attachment 41852


Former Ask Andy members bespoke Lattanzi. Those on the bottom of picture are norvegese shell cordovans, they cost a fortune these days. Love the black shell 3 eyelet model, stunning Lattanzi greatness. Every one of his shoes are for the HUGE Big daddies. Lucky guy.
View attachment 41853

I don't like any of those in the last pic, Shooey. The creasing in all but the top right pair show the last is the wrong one for the wearer.

The pair on the bottom left remind me of an old pair of AE that I bought for $100 in a Winners discount store in Toronto that are airport friendly and are good for long flights.

 

[The Shooman]

I don't like any of those in the last pic, Shooey. The creasing in all but the top right pair show the last is the wrong one for the wearer.

you're talking nonsense son. You can't just make a judgement based on one factor. Gotta take the last into account. Different toe shapes will mean different creasing. Remember, these are Lattanzi bespoke. You think Mr Lattanzi doesn't know what he is doing?

The pair on the bottom left remind me of an old pair of AE that I bought for $100 in a Winners discount store in Toronto that are airport friendly and are good for long flights.

Yep, great looking shoes. One of the nicest looking pairs l have ever seen. Wish l owned them.

 

[Sammy Ambrose]

you're talking nonsense son. You can't just make a judgement based on one factor. Gotta take the last into account. Different toe shapes will mean different creasing. Remember, these are Lattanzi bespoke. You think Mr Lattanzi doesn't know what he is doing?


Yep, great looking shoes. One of the nicest looking pairs l have ever seen. Wish l owned them.

I prefer shoes without creases, Shooey. With those that are a suitable shape to match my foot shape there is zero creasing. If they are a shape which differs from my foot shape they will logically and unavoidably crease.

So if those are bespoke the pictures speak for themselves. They were the wrong shape for the wearer.

Obviously shoes with an elongated toe - such as a Teddy Boy winkle picker - can crease from the toe; but that is intentional.

So does Mr. Lattanzi know what he is doing? The piccies speak no lies Shooey. Are you sure he isn't Lumpen in disguise?

 

[The Shooman]

robertito I am shocked, truly shocked. I am also shocked that Lattanzi would use fiberboard. I am also surprised that the feather is so narrow, then again some shoesmakers do the same. I wonder why that insole you posted has canvass on it?? Lattanzi also makes his shoes on plastic lasts.

Did the cobbler say anything about Lattanzi using synthetics in the shoes?

I am still waiting for the bespoke shoemakers opinion.

I will tell you a secret. Lattanzi shoes are supposed to be 100% handmade in the construction. Mine are, and many others are, but look!

Lattanzi shoes - soles stitched on by a machine
View attachment 37057View attachment 37058

I have worked out the mystery. Lattanzi actually sells a lower level machine made shoe these days. These are cheaper with machine stitched soles and pre-made heels. They are nothing compared to the proper Lattanzi handmades.


Lattanzi machine made shoes. Notice the machine stitched soles and machine made heels.


Look, more machine stitched soles and machine made heels


Lattanzi for Kiton, machine sewn soles as well.


Machine stitched soles. Might be a machine built heel as well. Nothing on the proper Lattanzi

 

[robertito]

i wrote to the shoemaker but he didnt reply to me. Don't want to chase him. When he goes back to the other forum i will ask him again

Is lattanzi the only manufacturer Kiton has used. Actually there is an outlet close to where I live that has quite a few old Kiton shoes. They are actually well made and well priced as well (around USD 400) but i have never tempted to buy them because the lasts are very 'italian' .they are not even close to any of the ones you have posted.

I will have another look next time I go there.

 

[The Shooman]

Is lattanzi the only manufacturer Kiton has used. Actually there is an outlet close to where I live that has quite a few old Kiton shoes.

No, Kiton used to use Antonio Meccariello to make their shoes in the old days (early 2,000's). Again they had machine stitched soles, but they were stunning. Here are some examples of the old Kitons.

Many forum folk are argued they were a waste of money and compared them to Edward Green, but the Kiton were in a different ballpark because they were hand welted, hence being twice the price.


Other makers have also made for Kiton, and not all were as impressive as Antonio's or Lattanzi's.

They are actually well made and well priced as well (around USD 400) but i have never tempted to buy them because the lasts are very 'italian' .they are not even close to any of the ones you have posted.

I will have another look next time I go there.

Pity you don't have pictures.

 

[robertito]

i can take a picture next time i go there.

What view do you need? sole/top view/side view?

 

[The Shooman]

I received a new shoo from Silvano Lattanzi the other day, but l ended up sending it back because it was not the construction l wanted.

Here is the shoo l received. It is made from exclusive Elk leather, and knowing Lattanzi it was probably the best of the best Nordic Elk leather. It is surprisingly soft and apparently stronger than almost any leathers available. Some say the leather doesn't crack like normal calf and can last generations. Where-as cows are brought up on antibiotics to grow their hides faster, and hence leather being poorer quality these days (difficult to get real leather these days); this Elk leather is extremely rare because it comes from a wild animal and is unaltered by man. It is a very pure shoo and one of outstanding quality. No animal farming here, just straight out wild animal hides as nature intended with all the scars that come along with it. The leather can take a beating.

Silvano Lattanzi - rare Elk leather
(bologna construction)


Bologna constructed Silvano Lattanzi

The deal breaker was that the construction was bologna. I am not into soft slipper like shoes, l want shoes that feel like real shoes. For me it needs to be hand welted with hand stitched soles, or GO HOME!

We can see from the picture here that another piece of the lining has been hand stitched to the other part of the lining at the bottom of the shoo (see the inside row of skin like stitching): this forms a tube so the lining is 360 degrees. The skin stitching area is placed in a groove so the area does not irritate the foot. I suspect the upper is also joined here so it also forms a tube, that is the only thing that really would make sense.



The outer row of stitching looks to be machine done, but it is possible it might not be...it is difficult to tell. If it was hand done that would be a truly impressive feat. Notice how the outer stitch is done right on the edge (unlike blake stitched shoes that are done about 1 cm from the edge), this is because the bologna construction has no insole, and it can only be stitched like this. With an insole the skin stitch on the inside would be almost impossible too. Can't be done any other way. Blake needs to be done 1 cm in to stablise the insole.

My shoemaker used to do bologna and blake construction by hand because their were no machines...he was a master shoe stitcher who hand stitched over 3,000 pairs.


More on bologna construction
Here is a bologna shoe construction diagram from this site, but that diagram is not quite right. The diagram for bologna would all depend on the pattern drafted.

Shoe Construction Types | A Gentleman's Primer On Shoemaking

There are many ways to make a shoe. In our guide, we explore the most common methods and give pros and cons of each. Top guide for men's shoes.

bespokeunit.com

This is how my maker used to do bologna construction for his loafers. He would have no groove or skin stitching like Lattanzi because his drafted patterns were different. His underneath area was a solid piece, and he'd use the drawstring method to close the top of the upper where he'd do a hand stitched apron. He would use a long awl and needle to be able to hand stitch them. Few in the world have that skill anymore.

More to come another day where l comment on Lattanzi shoos and take a family shot.

 

[Great White Snark]

Talk us through the physiological process whereby cows are “brought up on antibiotics to grow their hides faster” cos I’d be fascinated to learn how that works.

 

[The Shooman]

Talk us through the physiological process whereby cows are “brought up on antibiotics to grow their hides faster” cos I’d be fascinated to learn how that works.

From conversations l have had with people in the shoe industry, this is what l understand:

- some of the 1940's calf leather was very high quality, far better than anything today by a long shot. Cows were in the fields and allowed to grow naturally without all the antibiotics used to speed their growth.

- the faster a cows growth the lower the quality of the hides.

- cows in the cold regions such as the French Alps and the Swiss Alps produces the best leather today. Why? The cold slows down the growth of the cows, hence the leather is of higher quality. Still, cows even in these regions are fed antibiotics to fasten their growth to maximise food yield for market.

- cows in hot climates that are fed bad diets and lots of antibiotics for growth produce crummy leather.

- An Edward Green man said in the 1950's that the leather was not what it used to be...the leather is not good anymore.

- An aquaintance with ample experience in vintage shoes tells me that the 1940's shoes were much higher quality than later decades.

- I have 1950's shoe sole leather that oak bark tanned in Australia. It is far superior to even the world class Bakers leather. Can't even cut it with a knife....needs a special hand crank tool to cut it. It wears like iron....far more durable than Bakers or Rendenbach. Far more durable than Lattanzi sole leather too.

**When did antibiotics to fasten cow growth become mainstream?? After the 1940's?? The 1940's is an interesting period: after the 1940's the leather was said to decline, and hand welted shoes started to be replaced by factory machine welting. Seems to be a start of a noticeable decline after the 40's.

I recall Lattanzi saying that the calf leather for shoes today is not suitable for shoemaking. He was lucky enough to get a high quality stock of leather 30 years ago that surpasses anything today. I have wholecut leather of the highest quality from Hermes, but it does not hold a candle to the leather that Lattanzi uses on his shoes.

It is difficult to get really good leather in my experience; I only see it on the occasional shoe. Most shoes don't have the great leather. I see the good leather on John Lobb Paris wholecuts (owned by Hermes), Vass wholecuts, top English bespoke shoes, Edward Green top draw, and especially Lattanzi shoes. I have many shoes, but only a handful have the great leather.

What makes the greatest leather?
1). The tighter grain that produces beautiful leather that has a unique shine to it.
2). BUT, even the tighter grain can have heavier deep indentations such as with the Hermes John Lobb, where-as the Lattanzi `pebody' leather has tight grain with much less deep indentations....makes the grain look impeccable, and it shines up a treat like nothing else. Gotta see it to believe it, the leather is in a class of it's own.

The Lattanzi problem
When you wear Lattanzi it is difficult to wear anything else. Lattanzis are a work of art and flawless, and wearing Lobb or Vass etc becomes difficult. The photos never do Lattanzi shoes justice, the shoes are incredible in person. As one forum poster once said, "my Edward Greens look pedestrian when compared to my Lattanzi. It is exactly like that; the difference between Lobb, Vass and Bemer is too vast when comparing to Lattanzi.

 

[Great White Snark]

I have zero expertise on quality of leather over the decades and it’s possible (likely?) decline but I still maintain that antibiotics have negligible effect on accelerating the growth of cows, humans or any other fauna.

Now if someone is conflating “antibiotics” with “growth hormones” it would make more sense.

 

[The Shooman]

I have zero expertise on quality of leather over the decades and it’s possible (likely?) decline but I still maintain that antibiotics have negligible effect on accelerating the growth of cows, humans or any other fauna.

Now if someone is conflating “antibiotics” with “growth hormones” it would make more sense.

antibiotics used to grow the cows faster. That is what l have heard and how l understand it. Who knows what is in the antibiotics, it probably would be growth hormones. The cows are grown faster to get them to market quicker for food, and the byproduct is the leather that is sold off.

 

[doghouse]

Antibiotics =/= growth hormones. They are different things.

 

[The Shooman]

I have zero expertise on quality of leather over the decades and it’s possible (likely?) decline but I still maintain that antibiotics have negligible effect on accelerating the growth of cows, humans or any other fauna.

Now if someone is conflating “antibiotics” with “growth hormones” it would make more sense.

I just found something very interesting. A U.S government website and a peer reviewed article with 20 citations has indicated things that numerous shoe industry sources have been saying all along. After the 1940's the leather quality was said to have declined, and it may be because of the "growth hormones" that were introduced during this decade.

Since the 1950s, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has approved a number of steroid hormone drugs for use in beef cattle and sheep, including natural estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, and their synthetic versions. These drugs increase the animals’ growth rate and the efficiency by which they convert the feed they eat into meat.

Steroid Hormone Implants Used for Growth in Food-Producing Animals

FDA has approved a number of steroid hormone drugs for use in beef cattle and sheep.

www.fda.gov

For more than 60 y, beef cattle producers have safely used various types of growth-enhancing technology (GET) such as steroidal implants with anabolic activity and orally active beta-adrenergic agonists to increase skeletal muscle growth rate, improve carcass leanness, increase average daily gain (ADG), and alter dry matter intake (DMI) compared to non-treated cattle.

Mechanisms of steroidal implants to improve beef cattle growth: a review

(2020). Mechanisms of steroidal implants to improve beef cattle growth: a review. Journal of Applied Animal Research: Vol. 48, No. 1, pp. 133-141.

www.tandfonline.com

I am no expert ion this area, but these links were found after a couple of minutes of searching. I feel that growth hormones might be linked to the decline in leather quality, it would explain the claims made by the footwear industry people. Interesting to think about.

 

[Sammy Ambrose]

So not antibiotics at all, Shooey. Just damn tablets and drugs. I wonder if cows in fields with magic mushrooms end up with interesting hides that will produce some zany leather? Any farmers on the forum ready to give it a try?

 

[fxh]

If it was worth it financially farmers/companies would breed and grow for “perfect” leather. At the moment it’s just a by product of meat eating.

 

[Grand Potentate]

So not antibiotics at all, Shooey. Just damn tablets and drugs. I wonder if cows in fields with magic mushrooms end up with interesting hides that will produce some zany leather? Any farmers on the forum ready to give it a try?

if they're not i sure as shit am.

 

[Sammy Ambrose]

if they're not i sure as shit am.

Nooo, Rambo. Give it to the cows.

 

[Sammy Ambrose]

If it was worth it financially farmers/companies would breed and grow for “perfect” leather. At the moment it’s just a by product of meat eating.

Yes. And discounting shoo addicts and Imelda Marcos not many cow hides are required to shoe the world.

 

[The Shooman]

My favourite Silvano Lattanzi shoe ever

This looks like a work of art in person. The colour, the leather and everything is completely perfect. It is the best `shoo' l have ever seen.

The famous `Lattanzi browns'. The leather is unlike anything else.

 

[Sammy Ambrose]

My favourite Silvano Lattanzi shoe ever

This looks like a work of art in person. The colour, the leather and everything is completely perfect. It is the best `shoo' l have ever seen.

The famous `Lattanzi browns'. The leather is unlike anything else.
View attachment 42270

Very nice, Shooey. It is glistening enticingly .