Adventures in Bespoke Tailoring

The Shooman

A Pretty Face
Messages
2,622
May i ask why you are considering getting a blazer made in lesser or scabal 9oz cloth. I know i’m new here, but reading up on some of your posts you didnt strike me as a man dreaming about a navy blazer in summer suiting fabric. if that is really what you need look at mockleno from huddersfield fine worsted, h&s, smiths or some other usual suspects?

Actually, i was expecting you would be getting a cashmere blazer for the winter since you seem to always be cold, layering up etc? Why not get a nice beefy luxurious lp cashmere blazer?
This navy sportscoat will be for Spring and Autumn. It will be paired with light coloured trousers and lighter gray checked trousers etc. While navy can be boring, it will be a versatile combination that can be paired with numerous shirts with the added bonus of being able to pair unusual coloured shoes (museum purple with mauve accessories or navy museum calf shoes) with it. I think it is good to get a really high quality classic navy sportscoat out of the way before l do bespoke sportscoats with patterns.

and l want my fabric to look very luxurious with depth, but without a sheen, ie, a dull looking fabric that is beautiful yet understated (no modern looking fabric). My taste is unusual. The type of material is important, and l will know it when l see it today.

I am hoping 9 - 10 oz is not too hot in 25 degree weather. Is Lesser hotter than other fabrics?
 
Last edited:

Walter

Well-Known Member
Messages
166
and l want my fabric to look very luxurious with depth, but without a sheen, ie, a dull looking fabric that is beautiful yet understated (no modern looking fabric). My taste is unusual. The type of material is important, and l will know it when l see it today.

I am hoping 9 - 10 oz is not too hot in 25 degree weather. Is Lesser hotter than other fabrics?
Ah, understood. No lesser is not hotter than similar fabrics from other makers of similar weight and weave. Just note that afaik there is no real blazer fabric in the lesser 9.5/10oz book. There are a lot of nice blues in there imo. That’s why i suggested looking at mocklino weave. Anyway, if you stick with the lesser book you are looking at make sure to get details like pockets and buttons right to avoid the it looking like an orphaned suit jacket. Good luck with the project👍
 

belinmad

Well-Known Member
Messages
128
Ah, understood. No lesser is not hotter than similar fabrics from other makers of similar weight and weave. Just note that afaik there is no real blazer fabric in the lesser 9.5/10oz book. There are a lot of nice blues in there imo. That’s why i suggested looking at mocklino weave. Anyway, if you stick with the lesser book you are looking at make sure to get details like pockets and buttons right to avoid the it looking like an orphaned suit jacket. Good luck with the project👍
Agree with this - I'd have to take a look at the lesser's books, but they tend to be more suiting than jacketing, more business oriented - you'll end up with a blazer that looks like an orphaned suit jacket.
 

The Shooman

A Pretty Face
Messages
2,622
Ah, understood. No lesser is not hotter than similar fabrics from other makers of similar weight and weave. Just note that afaik there is no real blazer fabric in the lesser 9.5/10oz book. There are a lot of nice blues in there imo. That’s why i suggested looking at mocklino weave. Anyway, if you stick with the lesser book you are looking at make sure to get details like pockets and buttons right to avoid the it looking like an orphaned suit jacket. Good luck with the project👍
Yes, definitely want to avoid the orphaned suit jacket look. I had the luxury of spending much of the afternoon at my tailors, so l was very lucky, but it helps that l have known him a long time.

I ordered fully canvassed sportscoat in a lessor 11 oz, no.30918 with a purple patterned lining. It's a nice rich navy blue and not as dark as 30920. Anyone know the fabric? Definitely a big premium for lesser over the H&S, but looks to be worth it, the Lesser looks less common than many of the other fabrics, and that is the way l want it. Even better is that very few tailors in Australia stock Lesser & Sons or Scabal.

The lesser l have is from the Harrisons book, my tailor doesn't stock old bolts of fabric like some of the S.R guys do. He was also telling me he thinks the Scabal is better than the new Lesser fabrics under the Harrison name, and it has a price to match. Some of those Scabal cashmeres are devastatingly seductive and luxurious.

One thing l do notice is that the tweeds are not what they used to be. The old stuff was proper tweed and made to last, but the stuff in the books is all so meh.
 

ASSHAT

Well-Known Member
Messages
227
Agree with this - I'd have to take a look at the lesser's books, but they tend to be more suiting than jacketing, more business oriented - you'll end up with a blazer that looks like an orphaned suit jacket.
think that is definitely more the case with that weight range. The 13 oz (and gone 16oz) has better blazer options although id probably still choose something else
 

The Shooman

A Pretty Face
Messages
2,622
Agree with this - I'd have to take a look at the lesser's books, but they tend to be more suiting than jacketing, more business oriented - you'll end up with a blazer that looks like an orphaned suit jacket.

O.k, I will go back in and look at other fabrics before he orders the material. What do you suggest from the Scabal or H&S books?

The fabric I chose is very nice fabric, maybe too nice for a navy sportscoat, probably better for a suit. Getting the fabric right for a navy sportscoat is not so easy. You think a fabric less fancy and luxurious?
 
Last edited:

ASSHAT

Well-Known Member
Messages
227
Yes, definitely want to avoid the orphaned suit jacket look. I had the luxury of spending much of the afternoon at my tailors, so l was very lucky, but it helps that l have known him a long time.

I ordered fully canvassed sportscoat in a lessor 11 oz, no.30918 with a purple patterned lining. It's a nice rich navy blue and not as dark as 30920. Anyone know the fabric? Definitely a big premium for lesser over the H&S, but looks to be worth it, the Lesser looks less common than many of the other fabrics, and that is the way l want it. Even better is that very few tailors in Australia stock Lesser & Sons or Scabal.

The lesser l have is from the Harrisons book, my tailor doesn't stock old bolts of fabric like some of the S.R guys do. He was also telling me he thinks the Scabal is better than the new Lesser fabrics under the Harrison name, and it has a price to match. Some of those Scabal cashmeres are devastatingly seductive and luxurious.

One thing l do notice is that the tweeds are not what they used to be. The old stuff was proper tweed and made to last, but the stuff in the books is all so meh.
Congrats. Sure it will be great. As mentioned above the finishing of the lesser cloth is really different than other options and the blues are great. Any idea of the buttons? Gonna go for traditional gold?
 

ASSHAT

Well-Known Member
Messages
227
If my memory serves me correctly the 11oz range is pretty much a twill weave whereas the 9oz range is pretty much a plain weave. Think the 11 oz twill weave would serve your purposes better for an old school look, that will not at all be mistaken for a suit if the details are done right
 
Last edited:

ASSHAT

Well-Known Member
Messages
227
O.k, I will go back in and look at other fabrics before he orders the material. What do you suggest from the Scabal or H&S books?

The fabric I chose is very nice fabric, maybe too nice for a navy sportscoat, probably better for a suit. Getting the fabric right for a navy sportscoat is not so easy. You think a fabric less fancy and luxurious?
Generally scabal and h&s ranges are seasonal. They are impossible to assess overall as the ranges are enormous and constantly changing. Unlike lessers who almost never change their offering. On a case by case basis i have gotten really good cloths from both Scabal and H&S. There are some rumors though that H&S production is now being principally done in south america.
 

Walter

Well-Known Member
Messages
166
If my memory serves me correctly the 11oz range is pretty much a twill weave whereas the 9oz range is pretty much a plain weave. Think the 11 oz twill weave would serve your purposes better for an old school look, that will not at all be mistaken for a suit if the details are done right
For reference this is the 30918

66A1438C-58B0-40C6-BBEE-7211F1F864A4.jpeg
 

doghouse

King Of The Elite Idiots
Moderator
Supporter
Messages
10,623
Generally scabal and h&s ranges are seasonal. They are impossible to assess overall as the ranges are enormous and constantly changing. Unlike lessers who almost never change their offering. On a case by case basis i have gotten really good cloths from both Scabal and H&S. There are some rumors though that H&S production is now being principally done in south america.
This is accurate. Great cloths to be had, but highly individual

The Shooman The Shooman I may have a another navy blazer reccy for you. I believe it's Harrisons, has perfect texture, not quite a hopsack
 

formby002

Well-Known Member
Messages
596
Recently had a Blazer made outta Navy 'opsack, Dugdales. Nice and soft, with a bitta heft to it too.
 

formby002

Well-Known Member
Messages
596
Generally scabal and h&s ranges are seasonal. They are impossible to assess overall as the ranges are enormous and constantly changing. Unlike lessers who almost never change their offering. On a case by case basis i have gotten really good cloths from both Scabal and H&S. There are some rumors though that H&S production is now being principally done in south america.
Poyshinally I've always considered Scab-al.....Eurotrash cloth.

I mean....wool impregnated with crushed (semi)-precious stones....

Puhlease...
 

ASSHAT

Well-Known Member
Messages
227
Poyshinally I've always considered Scab-al.....Eurotrash cloth.

I mean....wool impregnated with crushed (semi)-precious stones....

Puhlease...
Lol you must have selective memory loss. As a Reid and Tailor silver gander fan, you of course must remember that Scabal was the last merchant to carry such cloth. I preferred the Bronze Eagle actually, much heavier.
Also Scabals heavy weight big ben, was on par with lessers 16 oz, maybe even better. I have a double breasted navy herringbone en cours.
And of course Scabal Titan rivaled Dormy Tonic in the 3 ply mohair game.
But what do i know?
6E9424BE-907E-4D49-8318-30D972CAB383.jpeg
676D018D-87E7-489A-9F73-4B561EC1DCAD.jpeg
428BFAF1-3C89-450E-ACD3-58D4F573134F.jpeg
6E7F2B55-39F8-4776-AD32-C6ABEFE8F99B.jpeg
 
Last edited:

ASSHAT

Well-Known Member
Messages
227
That's s'nice. Most city books will have cloth suitable for a blazer. Hopsacks, Twills and the like.
do you consider the plain weaves in the 9oz and below books suitable for a proper blazer? I certainly do not. And thats what we were discussing until this morning.
 

formby002

Well-Known Member
Messages
596
Lol you must have selective memory loss. As Reid and Tailor silver gander fan, you of course must remember that Scabal was the last merchant to carry such cloth. I preferred the Bronze Eagle actually, much heavier.
Also Scabals heavy weight big ben, was on par withe lessers 16 oz, maybe even better. I have a double breasted navy herringbone en cours.
And of course Scabal Titan rivaled Dormy Tonic in the 3 ply mohaor game.
But what do i know?
View attachment 34671View attachment 34674View attachment 34675View attachment 34676
Several merchants carried Reid & Taylor, they were a weaver. Holland & Sherry carried them too at one time. As did Keith & Henderson (I think they were the original merchant long gone or merged/bought out)

I don't think I've ever seen anything in a Scabal book, and I've looked at loads over the years, that wasn't done better and/or cheaper by other merchants. It seems to specialise in cloth for the Euro/middle/far eastern markets. Simply not to my taste. (do they still stock any of those books you listed?)

As I recall Silver Gander was heavier (approx 18oz) than Bronze Eagle (15oz ish) may have that the wrong way around but don't think so.

Minnis used to do a twist cloth too (can't remember the name), which was similar to R&T may have been made by them.

I've had lots of stuff made from H&S over the years however, they strike a nice balance between classic English taste mixed with more 'eclectic' cloths if yoyu want to push the boat out.

I would pick H&S over Scabal any day of the week.
 
Last edited:

formby002

Well-Known Member
Messages
596
do you consider the plain weaves in the 9oz and below books suitable for a proper blazer? I certainly do not. And thats what we were discussing until this morning.
For a light weight blazer, perhaps at a push. Get the details right and its passable...

You are right though, Serge and Hopsack are the traditional cloths for blazers. A lightweight Hopsack would be ideal for Shooeys application I think.
 
Messages
20
Several merchants carried Reid & Taylor, they were a weaver. Holland & Sherry carried them too at one time. As did Keith & Henderson (I think they were the original merchant long gone or merged/bought out)

I don't think I've ever seen anything in a Scabal book, and I've looked at loads over the years, that wasn't done better and/or cheaper by other merchants. It seems to specialise in cloth for the Euro/middle/far eastern markets. Simply not to my taste. (do they still stock any of those books you listed?)

As I recall Silver Gander was heavier (approx 18oz) than Bronze Eagle (15oz ish) may have that the wrong way around but don't think so.

Minnis used to do a high twist too (can't remember the name), which was similar to R&T may have been made by them.

I've had lots of stuff made from H&S over the years however, they strike a nice balance between classic English taste mixed with more 'eclectic' cloths if yoyu want to push the boat out.

I would pick H&S over Scabal any day of the week.
dear brother
What is your taste?
I like light and luxe tissues, love to wear my money where the ladies can see it
 

ASSHAT

Well-Known Member
Messages
227
Several merchants carried Reid & Taylor, they were a weaver. Holland & Sherry carried them too at one time. As did Keith & Henderson (I think they were the original merchant long gone or merged/bought out)

I don't think I've ever seen anything in a Scabal book, and I've looked at loads over the years, that wasn't done better and/or cheaper by other merchants. It seems to specialise in cloth for the Euro/middle/far eastern markets. Simply not to my taste. (do they still stock any of those books you listed?)

As I recall Silver Gander was heavier (approx 18oz) than Bronze Eagle (15oz ish) may have that the wrong way around but don't think so.

Minnis used to do a high twist too (can't remember the name), which was similar to R&T may have been made by them.

I've had lots of stuff made from H&S over the years however, they strike a nice balance between classic English taste mixed with more 'eclectic' cloths if yoyu want to push the boat out.

I would pick H&S over Scabal any day of the week.
of course several merchants carried R&T, i just stated that scabal was the last to specifically carry it. I have reid and taylor suits and/or cut lenghts from all of the merchants you mentioned above (h&s, keith & henderson and others) and even a pile of old swatch books. Maybe i’ll dig out the photos for you one day.

you are mistaken, bronze eagle was much heavier. You can see the weight of the silver gander on the photo i attached (470g).

up until a few years ago scabal big ben was still available, it was ultimately added to another city book, but frankly i dont know if its still in stock.

While H&S has certainly produced great cloth and might sometimes still do, most pf there production has moved to south america. scabal on the other hand now owns the Bower Robuck mill and still produces alot of the cloth in Yorkshire. I would challenge you to show me any current H&S cloth that say made in England on the selvage. Very few if any still do.
 

formby002

Well-Known Member
Messages
596
of course several merchants carried R&T, i just stated that scabal was the last to specifically carry it. I have reid and taylor suits and/or cut lenghts from all of the merchants you mentioned above (h&s, keith & henderson and others) and even a pile of old swatch books. Maybe i’ll dig out the photos for you one day.

you are mistaken, bronze eagle was much heavier. You can see the weight of the silver gander on the photo i attached (470g).

up until a few years ago scabal big ben was still available, it was ultimately added to another city book, but frankly i dont know if its still in stock.

While H&S has certainly produced great cloth and might sometimes still do, most pf there production has moved to south america. scabal on the other hand now owns the Bower Robuck mill and still produces alot of the cloth in Yorkshire. I would challenge you to show me any current H&S cloth that say made in England on the selvage. Very few of any still do.
The last H&S cloth I had made up was out out one of their Tweed books. Never saw the bolt, so don't know what was on the Selvedge.

I'm not fussed about where its made, its the patterns, composition and quality of the cloth that interests me.

Do Scabal sell a lot of cloth in Britain? I know tailors always have their books but the ones I've talked to rarely order from them. I've never, as I can recall been guided to a Scabal book by a tailor.

Doghouse will have a better idea of what goes on on the Row.
 
Messages
20
of course several merchants carried R&T, i just stated that scabal was the last to specifically carry it. I have reid and taylor suits and/or cut lenghts from all of the merchants you mentioned above (h&s, keith & henderson and others) and even a pile of old swatch books. Maybe i’ll dig out the photos for you one day.

you are mistaken, bronze eagle was much heavier. You can see the weight of the silver gander on the photo i attached (470g).

up until a few years ago scabal big ben was still available, it was ultimately added to another city book, but frankly i dont know if its still in stock.

While H&S has certainly produced great cloth and might sometimes still do, most pf there production has moved to south america. scabal on the other hand now owns the Bower Robuck mill and still produces alot of the cloth in Yorkshire. I would challenge you to show me any current H&S cloth that say made in England on the selvage. Very few if any still do.
habibi, i told you, ask mister twill
 

ASSHAT

Well-Known Member
Messages
227
The last H&S cloth I had made up was out out one of their Tweed books. Never saw the bolt, so don't know what was on the Selvedge.

I'm not fussed about where its made, its the patterns, composition and quality of the cloth that interests me.

Do Scabal sell a lot of cloth in Britain? I know tailors always have their books but the ones I've talked to rarely order from them. I've never, as I can recall been guided to a Scabal book by a tailor.

Doghouse will have a better idea of what goes on on the Row.
you are safe with H&S tweed. That stuff last time i checked was UK made.

I really dont know how it sells in the UK. But you are certainly correct though Scabal, like Dormy do have strong roots in the French speaking parts of Europe. And do have similar luxury cloths selections for certain segments of the population.

H&S also used to make great luxury cloths as well in the 70s and 80s. Their worsted wools with mink, chinchilla, apalaca and/or other noble fibers all come to mind and are still sold for big bucks by crazy Japanese collectors if you can believe it.

I have an H&S mink blend suit that i inherited and its great.
 
Last edited:

formby002

Well-Known Member
Messages
596
you are safe with H&S tweed. That stuff last time i checked was UK made.

I really dont know how it sells in the UK. But you are certainly correct though Scabal, like Dormy do have strong roots in the French speaking parts of Europe. And do have similar luxury cloths selections for certain segments of the population.

H&S also used to make great luxury cloths as well in the 70s and 80s. There worsted wools with mink, chinchilla, apalaca and/or other noble fibers all come to mind and are still sold for big bucks by crazy Japanese collectors if you can believe it.
You could still get those exotic mixes into the 90s, I had a suit made out of Wool and Silver Mink. I think it became difficult to sell that cloth into certain markets due to prohibitions/licensing issues around products made from endangered animals and the like.

I've haven't seen it in the UK for years now though. Bateman & Ogden may have a few bolts knocking about in the storeroom as may some of the other textile shops in Bradford/Leeds/Halifax/ Huddersfield areas.
 

formby002

Well-Known Member
Messages
596
C & R Barnett were another merchant in Bradford who always had interesting things and would sell to the public if you popped in, but they seem to have gone bust.

Shame.
 

Thruth

thicker but more pliant than horsehide
Moderator
Supporter
Messages
20,059
Lol you must have selective memory loss. As a Reid and Tailor silver gander fan, you of course must remember that Scabal was the last merchant to carry such cloth. I preferred the Bronze Eagle actually, much heavier.
Also Scabals heavy weight big ben, was on par with lessers 16 oz, maybe even better. I have a double breasted navy herringbone en cours.
And of course Scabal Titan rivaled Dormy Tonic in the 3 ply mohair game.
But what do i know?
View attachment 34671View attachment 34674View attachment 34675View attachment 34676
their Shetland tweeds were very nice too
 

formby002

Well-Known Member
Messages
596
The one I had was I think from their Sherrytweed book.

Quite (too) loud, not had much wear out of it to be honest...

Its this:

1596232548090.png
 

Thruth

thicker but more pliant than horsehide
Moderator
Supporter
Messages
20,059
The one I had was I think from their Sherrytweed book.

Quite (too) loud, not had much wear out of it to be honest...

Its this:

View attachment 34707
They did a nice book of tweed (13 oz/400g) with 5% cashmere that would smother doghouse doghouse . Callanish Blackhouse from the Outer Hebrides. I've got a brown herringbone jacket in it.

1596237675385.png
 

Attachments

Top Bottom