Adventures in Bespoke Tailoring

Pimpernel Smith

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As I recall Silver Gander was heavier (approx 18oz) than Bronze Eagle (15oz ish) may have that the wrong way around but don't think so.
I have a Silver Gander suit and indeed, it is for the winter and the trousers can almost stand.

Haven't worn it for years and it is magnificent.

We need it back and similar in a big way.
 

The Shooman

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On a case by case basis i have gotten really good cloths from both Scabal and H&S. There are some rumors though that H&S production is now being principally done in south america.
Yes, my tailor didn't seem really thrilled about H&S. He also rolled his eyes when l talked about Dormeuil, it was like he thinks Dormeuil is a joke and said he only carried samples just to say that he has it. I saw the H&S samples and many didn't speak to me because they looked more common. When l ordered my coat l wanted something really special with no compromises, so it needed to be made in rare exclusive material that few in Australia would dare to make a reality. There are lots of men who will have coats and suits made from all types of mills, but few use the Scabal and Lesser fabrics.


the twill does not appear to be very pronounced, i might prefer a bit more pronounced, but from the photo the color is good and the cloth looks dry and matte, both pluses. An old school double breast with gold buttons would be smashing.
I have thought about a double breasted with gold buttons for a long time. Sadly it wouldn't be so practical for me nor suitable for my shape. If it was suitable I would order it in a flash, especially in a heavy fabric to wear with a cashmere skivvy in winter.
 
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ASSHAT

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This would be concerning. I don't go in for Dormeuil all that much, but any tailor who doesn't appreciate the history and status of Tonik and Dormeuils place in history is suspect.
While i obviously agree with that sentiment, i even bought a giant commemorative dormy ash tray highlighting their holy trinity of sportex, towntex and tonik, their current lineup makes euro trash scabal look like Allen Warren’s Dukes of Britain.
 

doghouse

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While i obviously agree with that sentiment, i even bought a giant commemorative dormy ash tray highlighting their holy trinity of sportex, towntex and tonik, their current lineup makes euro trash scabal look like Allen Warren’s Dukes of Britain.
I mean, I don't have any new Dormeuil either for this reason, but I wouldn't trust anyone who dismisses such a pillar in that manner
 

formby002

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This would be concerning. I don't go in for Dormeuil all that much, but any tailor who doesn't appreciate the history and status of Tonik and Dormeuils place in history is suspect.
I used to get suit lengths of Tonik (3.5 yrds) for £35 back in the early 90s. Thats unbelievable when you compare it to how much it would have cost you if you had purchased it from one of those cloth shops that used to be on Regent St.

It was woven by John Foster at their Black Dyke Mills in Queensbury near Bradford. They used to sell end lengths off in their mill shop. I think Fosters wove all the top quality Mohairs as it was what they specialised in.

Dormy have made some beautiful stuff over the years...
 

formby002

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While i obviously agree with that sentiment, i even bought a giant commemorative dormy ash tray highlighting their holy trinity of sportex, towntex and tonik, their current lineup makes euro trash scabal look like Allen Warren’s Dukes of Britain.
Didn't they re-introduce Tonik for the 'new generation' under the banner Tonik 2000 ?
 

The Shooman

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formby002 said:
You are right though, Serge and Hopsack are the traditional cloths for blazers. A lightweight Hopsack would be ideal for Shooeys application I think.
Yeah a hopsack would be more suitable and make it really look like a blazer or sportscoat, but I would not enjoy a hopsack weave as much. Part of the appeal is the beauty of the material, and hopsack is too casual a weave for my liking.

I have been thinking about gold buttons, but after a while it might be known as that coat with the gold buttons, where-as a navy coat without the obvious buttons could be slipped into various wardrobe combinations without it being so noticeable. I am thinking it will probably be better without the gold buttons, but will it look like an orphaned suit coat?

Truly, l need to go with what l like, and if some blokes think it is an orphaned suit coat, to heck with them. At least it will look like a great coat made in a material to dream for, and because of that it won't get the usual frowns that orphaned suit coats deserve. :rofl:
 

The Shooman

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Dugdales is a good entry level fabric, and l am glad they exist. Many fabrics are so so and can wear quickly, but some are quite nice. Decent and does the job on a budget. Shorter fibers imo.
 

formby002

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Yeah a hopsack would be more suitable and make it really look like a blazer or sportscoat, but I would not enjoy a hopsack weave as much. Part of the appeal is the beauty of the material, and hopsack is too casual a weave for my liking.

I have been thinking about gold buttons, but after a while it might be known as that coat with the gold buttons, where-as a navy coat without the obvious buttons could be slipped into various wardrobe combinations without it being so noticeable. I am thinking it will probably be better without the gold buttons, but will it look like an orphaned suit coat?

Truly, l need to go with what l like, and if some blokes think it is an orphaned suit coat, to heck with them. At least it will look like a great coat made in a material to dream for, and because of that it won't get the usual frowns that orphaned suit coats deserve. :rofl:
Styling can move it away from looking like an orphaned suit jacket. Patch pockets for example which are traditional for Blazers. (I don't really like patch pockets so rarely get them)

I'll take a picture of mine if I get chance after.

Serge is nice (Twill) but is heavy and is more suited to a more structured style. Very correct. Think Dege.
 

doghouse

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Here's a crap picture of the jacketing I was talking about Shooey. I'll have to wait till I get to the office to look up the fabric.

20200801_085337.jpg
 

ASSHAT

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Didn't they re-introduce Tonik for the 'new generation' under the banner Tonik 2000 ?

They did for a while. Its might be an ok cloth, but it was nothing like the original. The recipe was completely different. They reintroduced towntex, but the only thing it had in common with the original was the name. Their last sportex reintroduction looked nice but it was only 2 or 3 patterns and again pretty different than the original.
 

formby002

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Dugdales is a good entry level fabric, and l am glad they exist. Many fabrics are so so and can wear quickly, but some are quite nice. Decent and does the job on a budget. Shorter fibers imo.
Dugdales isn't entry level. There are only so many weavers in Britain and they make for all the merchants. Often you're are only paying for the name and the marketing. Hence Eurotrash Scabal and why most British tailors probally don't use them because they can get the same/better quality elsewhere cheaper. Scabal is popular for MTM operations however who mostly cater to the less discerning, but more flashier customer. Look at the advertising, that is there customer base. ASSHAT's Scabal is the Scabal of a different age.

You have to understand the industry and stop reading/listening to the bullshiters on the internet.
 

ASSHAT

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Dugdales isn't entry level. There are only so many weavers in Britain and they make for all the merchants. Often you're are only paying for the name and the marketing. Hence Eurotrash Scabal and why most British tailors probally don't use them because they can get the same/better quality elsewhere cheaper. Scabal is popular for MTM operations however who mostly cater to the less discerning, but more flashier customer. Look at the advertising, that is there customer base. ASSHAT's Scabal is the Scabal of a different age.

You have to understand the industry and stop reading/listening to the bullshiters on the internet.
Honestly i couldnt give two shits about current scabal. You could easily mistake their current employees at their shop on SR as a employees at a hip tailoshop in downtown Baghdad. Obviously i like the old stuff.

Also agree that dugdale’s has good stuff. Their heavier city and town book is nice and they got other good stuff as well.
 
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formby002

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Honestly i couldnt give two shits about current scabal. You could easily mistake their current employees at their shop on SR as a employees at a hip tailoshop in downtown Baghdad. Obviously i like the old stuff.

Also agree that dugdale’s has some good stuff. Their heavier city and town book is nice and they got other good stuff as well.
You seem to like the older stuff, good for you and there's something very appealing, and satisfying about snuffling out long thought discontinued cloths from long forgotten tailors shops. It make the garment even more special.

I know, I've done it...

Dugdales have always been strong in the Basics (City and Town books) because that was their bread and butter.

Where British merchants have been traditionally weak was in Summer Jacketings, which is odd when you consider the beautiful tweeds they make.
 
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The Shooman

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He is not that type of tailor. He can make a traditional suit with the best of them. He scoffs at Dormeuil because he doesn't think highly of it's current offerings.

His tails.
Bespoke tails.jpg



Dugdales isn't entry level. There are only so many weavers in Britain and they make for all the merchants.

You have to understand the industry and stop reading/listening to the bullshiters on the internet.
I talk about the less expensive Dugdale fabric they have under their own name, not stuff they may make for others. The fabrics are o.k, but not great. The top tailors don't stock the fabric under the Dugdale name, only lesser mtm places do for entry level clothes.
 

doghouse

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Honestly i couldnt give two shits about current scabal. You could easily mistake their current employees at their shop on SR as a employees at a hip tailoshop in downtown Baghdad. Obviously i like the old stuff.

Also agree that dugdale’s has good stuff. Their heavier city and town book is nice and they got other good stuff as well.
I know it's too light for your tastes, but Scabal makes a 9oz suiting now with some fantastically rich colors and little shine. I have a blue from them that is a very 1960s Mad Men thing.

20180830_162440.jpg
 

ASSHAT

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I talk about the less expensive Dugdale fabric they have under their own name, not stuff they may make for others. The fabrics are o.k, but not great. The top tailors don't stock the fabric under the Dugdale name, only lesser mtm places do for entry level clothes.

Dugdale is a merchant. As far as i know they dont actually make anything. They order stuff to their specifications i assume. Im sure formby002 formby002 or formby001 formby001 has some insight into these matters.
 

ASSHAT

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The Shooman The Shooman

You might be a big daddy in the shoo world but you are a little boy in the big boy bespoke game.

Worried about people remembering gold buttons, thinking Double breast wouldnt suit your size, thinking dugdales is a mill, considering getting a blazer from a scabal cloth.... This doesnt sound like someone who wears big johnny lobbs. Thats ok though, not everyone can be a big daddy bespoke man, some men are better off in rtw. Other men are just born into it. I was wearing suits while people my age were still in nappies. Its important for bespoke boys to pay attention and respect around the big daddies. Watch out for the snark face son.
 

Thruth

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The Shooman The Shooman

You might be a big daddy in the shoo world but you are a little boy in the big boy bespoke game.

Worried about people remembering gold buttons, thinking Double breast wouldnt suit your size, thinking dugdales is a mill, considering getting a blazer from a scabal cloth.... This doesnt sound like someone who wears big johnny lobbs. Thats ok though, not everyone can be a big daddy bespoke man, some men are better off in rtw. Other men are just born into it. I was wearing suits while people my age were still in nappies. Its important for bespoke boys to pay attention and respect around the big daddies. Watch out for the snark face son.
He is also planning for peak lapels
 

ASSHAT

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He is also planning for peak lapels
The Shooman The Shooman Personally l would never play the role of a junior bespoke blazer man myself, but l can understand why some people of lesser caliber in the bespoke blazer world do. Most will never be at high positions in the bespoke blazer world, so their understanding and actions they take will always fall short of those with the pure pedigree. The real deal bespoke men (bespoke men who have bespoke in their blood) ALWAYS know the pretenders and johnny come lately types.
 

The Shooman

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Huntsman navy blazer, same type of material and features as a suit coat for the most part.
Huntsman navy blazer.jpg

ASSHAT said:
You might be a big daddy in the shoo world but you are a little boy in the big boy bespoke game.
I am playing a junior role here today, and l am not embarrassed about it because l know big daddies need to earn their stripes over many years. All different areas have BIG daddies...some are BIG daddies of shirts, some are BIG daddies of shoos, while others are BIG daddies of everything. When it comes to coats, l am still a joonior climbing the ladder. I might not be the big grand master of BIG daddies, but at least l have a couple of BIG daddy titles under my belt. It's good to be a BIG daddy, and it takes years to become one, and only certain types get to become a BIG daddy. :fap:
 
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formby002

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I talk about the less expensive Dugdale fabric they have under their own name, not stuff they may make for others. The fabrics are o.k, but not great. The top tailors don't stock the fabric under the Dugdale name, only lesser mtm places do for entry level clothes.
This isn't even wrong.
 

formby002

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Dugdale is a merchant. As far as i know they dont actually make anything. They order stuff to their specifications i assume. Im sure formby002 formby002 or formby001 formby001 has some insight into these matters.

They do tours, if you're in that neck of the woods it would be worth going...
 

formby002

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Maybe not if you consider the british climate...
The mills certainly make it, it just didn't make it into the books that English tailors carried as far as I can remember. London tailors may have stocked some though.

Years ago, my then tailor an Italian from Bari showed me one of those A4 booklets they used to do (may still do) with snips of cloth stuck on. It was by Ermenegildo Zegna and it was Wool and Silk jacketings done in in a gunclub pattern but in softer colourways. Some of the snips of cloth had the selvedge on them and it was all woven in Scotland.
 
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