Adventures in Bespoke Tailoring

[The Shooman]

Of course, you guys will probably say my tailor doesn't know anything and that we are both imagining it and as dumb as door nails (to be expected), but we have both clearly seen the issues.

I can also see the oom papa look here too. Notice how the trouser starts to puff out? It makes the men look all big at the top, and it is made extra big by the ears for pockets. These trousers are Oscar Hunt which also have Chinese MTM.

A properly cut trouser doesn't have that bagging out that makes people look big and frumpy at the top of their legs. It is a terrible look, and once you see it you can't unsee it. I have seen many more glaring examples, but l can't find photos right now, but all seem to have the same type of issue.

 

[The Shooman]

In other words, RTW trousers that don’t fit the wearer’s hips. Big Shitting Daddy

No, you are not understanding my finer points. Never mind. Lets move on.

 

[belinmad]

You seriously need to stop talking shit, Shoey.
You’re just showing your absolute ignorance on how MTM programs work.
Saying “all Chinese MTM is x or y” is just ignorant nonsense. Stick to what you know.

 

[The Shooman]

Look at how massive the trousers make this bloke's thighs look. The oom papa look at its best. Certainly not flattering.

Tailored to Perfection: What You Need to Know About Achieving the Ideal Trouser Fit | Oscar Hunt

Discover the perks of made-to-measure trousers at Oscar Hunt. From superior quality and comfort to personalized style, achieve the ideal fit for a timeless wardrobe. Book your fitting now.

www.oscarhunt.com.au

 

[belinmad]

Look at how massive the trousers make this bloke's thighs look. The oom papa look at its best. Certainly not flattering.

Tailored to Perfection: What You Need to Know About Achieving the Ideal Trouser Fit | Oscar Hunt

Discover the perks of made-to-measure trousers at Oscar Hunt. From superior quality and comfort to personalized style, achieve the ideal fit for a timeless wardrobe. Book your fitting now.

www.oscarhunt.com.au

I dont know who the fuck Oscar Hunt is. Some non existant tailor wannabe that you seem tk care about.

Go check Sexton, Huntsman, B&C and the rest of the English lot that offers offshore tailoring using Chinese shops. Are all their MTM/MTO programs producing “rabbit pockets”?
Please understand that it is the brands and their tailors/cutters who create the patterns (which btw include how much fabric to leave, and you would know this if you ever saw a pattern firsthand), and not the CCP or some mystery hand.
That’s just not how these programs work. You keep on bringing examples of shitty online platforms, unknown Aussie makers, or your adored igents Okey and the other clown as if they were some reference point for anything of meaning.

Seriously, just stick to shoes

 

[The Shooman]

 

[Dropbear]

No, you are not understanding my finer points. Never mind. Lets move on.

Do you have a finer point, though? It seems that whenever confronted with opinions or evidence contrary to your beliefs you just shit on the post or reply with a random pic from an old film.

For example, if you think that pocket flair is something more than hip size, then share your theory. And perhaps explain why letting out the hips won’t fix most pocket flair issues (contrary to most people’s experience).

 

[belinmad]

Offshore Bespoke

Located at Savile Row, London. Unprecedented quality tailors since 1969, creating classic mens and ladies tailoring, a modern twist of English eccentricity.

www.edwardsexton.co.uk

Made-To-Order

The World’s Finest Handcrafted Clothes | Tailor To Kings & Queens | Home Of Kingsman

www.huntsmansavilerow.com

Permanent Style

Edward Sexton Offshore Bespoke suit: Review

www.permanentstyle.com

 

[The Shooman]

Do you have a finer point, though? It seems that whenever confronted with opinions or evidence contrary to your beliefs you just shit on the post or reply with a random pic from an old film.

For example, if you think that pocket flair is something more than hip size, then share your theory. And perhaps explain why letting out the hips won’t fix most pocket flair issues (contrary to most people’s experience).

I posted what my tailor said about Chinese MTM, there is nothing else to say.

I see my tailor next week, so l will ask him why tweaking the hips won't solve the oom papa issues. There is not enough fabric in the trouser, so taking it in might cause issues. The amount of fabric saved on those patterns used in Chinese MTM is quite a lot, and many companies use those cost cutting patterns to save on costs.

You can say l am wrong all day long, but l would rather listen to an expert cutter with 40 years experience than the average internet guy. When l fail to respond, it is usually because l feel it is a waste of time. I am not one of these guys who feels the need to win and argument, l am past that these days.

 

[belinmad]

There is not enough fabric in the trouser, so taking it in might cause issues. The amount of fabric saved on those patterns used in Chinese MTM is quite a lot, and many companies use those cost cutting patterns to save on costs.

First, is not taking in, is letting out. You can’t even get that right, which shows how little understanding you have of patterns or trouser making (whether its MTM, MTO or Bespoke, they all use patterns). And I know this not because I’m a random internet guy, but because I took the time to learn about it.

So, I’ll say it one more time, cause clearly you don’t want to hear the simple facts if they don’t come from your unknown tailor.

How much seam allowance is used in any given pattern is not set by the factory, but by the client, who will create and give the factory (or the trousers-maker, for that matter) the pattern plus some specifications, such as seam allowance. There’s nothing inherent to MTM, MTO, or Chinese factories, that determines the approach to seam allowance. It’s a decision that the brand will make. If you ask the Chinese factory to use a 1 inch allowance, they will (and charge you for it). If you ask for just 1/8 inch, they will too (and charge you less for it, probably).

I have cheap Italian MTM that have very little seam allowance, and I have Barbour trousers cut here in the UK that have the same problem. I also have Cad & The Dandy MTO trousers (C&D uses, or used, a Chinese shop) which have loads of seam allowance, as even though they use an offshore service to reduce costs, they want their clients to have enough material to let out if needed.

“Oom papa issues” are not per-se caused by MTM, patterns, seam allowance, or China.

 

[Dropbear]

I posted what my tailor said about Chinese MTM, there is nothing else to say.

I see my tailor next week, so l will ask him why tweaking the hips won't solve the oom papa issues. There is not enough fabric in the trouser, so taking it in might cause issues. The amount of fabric saved on those patterns used in Chinese MTM is quite a lot, and many companies use those cost cutting patterns to save on costs.

You can say l am wrong all day long, but l would rather listen to an expert cutter with 40 years experience than the average internet guy. When l fail to respond, it is usually because l feel it is a waste of time. I am not one of these guys who feels the need to win and argument, l am past that these days.

I am not trying to ‘win an argument’ here, but genuinely trying to understand this perspective you are holding so dogmatically. And the reason is that it flies in the face of all my real world experience - with budget mtm, Chinese made garments and buying poor fitting rtw trousers that needed adjusting to remove pocket flair and improve the fit.

That's why I’ve been asking you to actually explain why you think what you do - and go beyond ‘someone told me’ and shitting on any evidence that counters that.

 

[Sammy Ambrose]

This is the best argument on a men'swear forum in many a day. Please continue chaps.

 

[theinvisiblehand]

I had the second fitting for my grey pinstripe suit. I think it's coming along great. The tailor didn't like the collar so he ripped it out to make it tighter. The shoulders were too narrow so that should be fixed by the next fitting. Here's a few pictures.

I went back to Panico as well and he had the same issues. Narrow shoulders and a collar he didn't like. I couldn't take a picture as he removed the whole collar almost. I'll hopefully get pictures next time.

 

[Grand Potentate]

I had the second fitting for my grey pinstripe suit. I think it's coming along great. The tailor didn't like the collar so he ripped it out to make it tighter. The shoulders were too narrow so that should be fixed by the next fitting. Here's a few pictures.

I went back to Panico as well and he had the same issues. Narrow shoulders and a collar he didn't like. I couldn't take a picture as he removed the whole collar almost. I'll hopefully get pictures next time.

Are you a fan of the pants? They fall a little off from the knee down. Might need a touch more room in the seat or thigh to compensate with the drape.

The shoulders have some odd pulling as well. What’s going on there?

 

[Great White Snark]

Pants need to be wider in the lower legs to compensate for your bulk up top.

 

[theinvisiblehand]

Are you a fan of the pants? They fall a little off from the knee down. Might need a touch more room in the seat or thigh to compensate with the drape.

The shoulders have some odd pulling as well. What’s going on there?

The shoulders were attached loosely so that explains the weirdness. They were too tight in any case so that's getting corrected. For the pants I went with a larger opening from the knees instead.

Pants need to be wider in the lower legs to compensate for your bulk up top.

Exactly yes.

 

[theinvisiblehand]

Some more. This fitting on this. There was an issue with the button/lapel roll that should be fixed by next time I see the suit. There was also a weird unevenness in the left shoulder I don't know how to describe properly. Hopefully the final product appears this week. Not pictured was the pants below the knee being still a bit tight. I asked to let the leg out more.

 

[The Shooman]

Want to have a sportscoat made from this for my next order, such a great choice for a real tweed lover. Imagine that with navy, dark grey or medium grey cavalry twill trousers. Even bone trousers with light blue shirt could look good too. Exciting possibilities.




and l really like the idea of having this coat made for the Spring and late Autumn....real BIG daddy stuff with Lessers Golden Bale.....just to see what all the fuss is about, just once.


Still got some great trousers coming soon. Two cavalry twills in very heavy fabric from W Bill, and a nice pair of bone trousers from Holland and Sherry. Can't wait until get them, real hardcore trousers with fishtails, cut above the navel and wide legs.

 

[The Shooman]

Here is another possibility, a real dashing tweed in 21 oz. Woudn't that be the bee's knees or the cat's pajamas, `eh? Just WOW.

 

[theinvisiblehand]

I got my suit from Panico yesterday. I might be a bit crazy but I don't think the shoulders are fitting as nicely as they could. I discussed it with him but he wanted me to wear it for a bit and see how it felt. My thinking is it might need some work but inputs are welcome.

 

[The Shooman]

^^^

quite a decent first suit. I would wear it for a while and see how it breaks in. Wish that collar fit more snug though.

 

[The Shooman]

Here is a poor quality photo l took the other day. Coat is breaking in nicely, but still much more wear to go before it really starts taking shape. The funny bend near the buttons is hardly noticeable in real life, but l will talk to my tailor about it if it persists.

 

[belinmad]

I got my suit from Panico yesterday. I might be a bit crazy but I don't think the shoulders are fitting as nicely as they could. I discussed it with him but he wanted me to wear it for a bit and see how it felt. My thinking is it might need some work but inputs are welcome.

Panico's jackets are REALLY unstructured and will shape more as you wear them. Also, would be good to see how it drapes with a more relaxed stance - I imagine that's not how you walk in real life!

 

[belinmad]

Panico's jackets are REALLY unstructured and will shape more as you wear them. Also, would be good to see how it drapes with a more relaxed stance - I imagine that's not how you walk in real life!

Here's one of mine as I wore it for a corporate photo shoot. Gives you a clear sense of how little structure it has, and how naturally it rests on the shoulders. The third photo is not great.

 

[sirloin]

I imagine that you are both correct, at the same time. Wear it for a bit and then report back - I'm sure your feedback will be taken into consideration.

 

[Thruth]

I was just checking out NYC arthisans I knew to see who was still in business.

Duncan Quinn does bespoke suits and shirts and is still in Nolita - which is the Bowery - but moved a couple of blocks to a better location. More sketchy area than not back then. Cleaned up a bit now. He is the proprietor not a cutter or tailor. But he had the horses to make a giacca with many hand passes in his in-house workshop.

His suits were $2700 when I met him almost 20 years ago. They start at $4000 now. Modern, slim like what some of the new generation shops were doing on the Row back then.

One of the first places to stock Anthony Cleverley in the US. He put me on to Cleverely bespoke as I could never find a good fit.

I haven’t been to NYC for many years so I was a bit surprised that he was still going strong. Outside of initial GQ et al hype at the start, Ive never seen mention of his in the forums, and does not need igents.

There are a number of cool shops, e.g. Davide Cenci that are ignored by the igents.

 

[Great White Snark]

Can someone please explain what his role is as a “proprietor” besides collecting the rent?
I’ve come across a couple of places like this - if he’s not a cutter nor a tailor what does he do?

 

[Thruth]

Can someone please explain what his role is as a “proprietor” besides collecting the rent?
I’ve come across a couple of places like this - if he’s not a cutter nor a tailor what does he do?

He was a lawyer in London prior to coming to NYC. He saw an opportunity, built a bespoke shop, spec’d the silhouette and hired the back end. He is the front end, runs the retail shop which has RTW clothing, shoes and accessories.

His model has been successful since 2003. He does not farm out the work either.