Adventures in Bespoke Tailoring

[belinmad]

Some do indeed. This is the phenomenon that exists in basically every trade though in one form or another. Whatever the professional version of "old wives tail" is. Group think, verities, etc... Plenty of tailors understand the benefit of modern cloth too though.

I can tell you in terms of performance, modern cloth smokes old shit. It's not even a comparison. That's not to say there isn't a reason for using old cloth though. It has a distinct look and feel, and if that's what you want, then that's what you want and it can't be replaced. Also, maybe a pattern or weave that doesn't exist anymore. But in terms of sewability, wrinkle resistance/portability, breathability, how it sets up, quality modern cloth is light years ahead.

I do like the feel of the "old cloth", indeed. And I'm sure the modern cloth also serves great purpose. I recently used the Loro Piana "Storm system" as lining for a tweed overcoat and the results are fantastic.

Now, when you make all these assertions on the second paragraph, would you mind explaining further where they comes from? I've never heard a tailor say "I hate working with old tweed/worsted/blah, it's impossible to sew, it wrinkles like paper and it doesn't breath at all, all this new stuff is awesome to work with and I vastly prefer it".

 

[belinmad]

Look at [old] minnis rangoon as another alternative. I’m also quite happy with lovat’s bard. Heard good things about holland and sherry’s eco traveller, if price is not of interest.

rangoon was a fantastic light option. As was Airborne, also from Minnis. Impossible to find anymore, unfortunately.

 

[ballmouse]

I met a tailor and when I mentioned LL cloth he dismissed the cloth as far too heavy. He had a suit cut from the fabric and it felt like a brick of lead. Very heavy. I think it was some ridiculous 18 oz chalk stripe.

 

[doghouse]

Now, when you make all these assertions on the second paragraph, would you mind explaining further where they comes from? I've never heard a tailor say "I hate working with old tweed/worsted/blah, it's impossible to sew, it wrinkles like paper and it doesn't breath at all, all this new stuff is awesome to work with and I vastly prefer it".

Sure. I've never heard a tailor say any of those things you mentioned either. But I have heard them say that newer winding technique, material blending and other attributes make modern cloth perform better in situations like being able to be sewn at very light weights, holding shape over it's lifetime, being more more resistant to wrinkles when traveling, etc...

A modern 9oz can hold shape like an old 13oz, which is an affront to the Cult of Ludicrously Heavy Cloth ™, whose very existence sprang from the fact that lighter cloth used to be horrendously difficult to sew properly and get to hold shape.

 

[doghouse]

I met a tailor and when I mentioned LL cloth he dismissed the cloth as far too heavy. He had a suit cut from the fabric and it felt like a brick of lead. Very heavy. I think it was some ridiculous 18 oz chalk stripe.

145^3oz thornproof of course.

 

[aristoi bcn]

When I visited Cerrato a couple of weeks ago he was cutting a pair of trousers out of a very lightweight Diamante Blu made for Kiton. He didn't like the cloth at all. Very light, very soft hand but imposible to have it hang properly.

 

[Thruth]

Really surprises me. My experience is quite the opposite. It might be the tailors. It might be their audience. Maybe they think american clients want progress and in innovation and are not susceptible for vintage tissue dreams. Or they believe european clients appreciate tradation and conservatism. Who knows.

Don't you find the finishing of vintage tissue to be different than modern, especially UK tissue, which adds to the allure? My eye-tie tailor blows a load with heavier weight, vintage UK tissues whenever I'v brought him some. When I first asked him if he did CMT he told me he didn't until I listed some tissues I had to be made up. He changed his tune quickly. He wanted to get all Pirozzi with his iron ASAP.

 

[Walter]

Don't you find the finishing of vintage tissue to be different than modern, especially UK tissue, which adds to the allure? My eye-tie tailor blows a load with heavier weight, vintage UK tissues whenever I'v brought him some. When I first asked him if he did CMT he told me he didn't until I listed some tissues I had to be made up. He changed his tune quickly. He wanted to get all Pirozzi with his iron ASAP.

I concur

 

[Thruth]

rangoon was a fantastic light option. As was Airborne, also from Minnis. Impossible to find anymore, unfortunately.

Rangoon is very nice but as you say, hard to find. Didn't someone do a remake over at SF at some point fairly recently?

 

[formby002]

Lessers is known for its finish, or anti-finish...that matt look that gave the cloth, especially blues a richness.

Of the several tailors I have used over the years every one, when asked, said that the best cloth, without equal, was Reid & Taylor Silver Gander.

And that was both English and Italian tailors.

 

[formby002]

Rangoon is very nice but as you say, hard to find. Didn't someone do a remake over at SF at some point fairly recently?

Thats not been made for years. I think I have a suit out of it somewhere.

 

[Thruth]

the old lesser, as i see it, excelled in the 8/9oz tropical and 9.5oz semi-tropical on the one hand and the heavier books, 13oz and especially the 16oz book. With golden bale being on a league of its own. The lesser 11oz never impressed me tbh.

old lesser afaik can indeed only be had through jobbers and old tailor’s stock.

yes, the older and heavier the better with the exceptions you mention.

 

[doghouse]

Lessers is known for its finish, or anti-finish...that matt look that gave the cloth, especially blues a richness.

Manton used to touch himself inappropriately over it. Chris Despos on the other hand had my opinion of Lessers, which wasn't superlative.

 

[formby002]

Italian tailors love British cloth

Don't you find the finishing of vintage tissue to be different than modern, especially UK tissue, which adds to the allure? My eye-tie tailor blows a load with heavier weight, vintage UK tissues whenever I'v brought him some. When I first asked him if he did CMT he told me he didn't until I listed some tissues I had to be made up. He changed his tune quickly. He wanted to get all Pirozzi with his iron ASAP.

Manton used to touch himself inappropriately over it. Chris Despos on the other hand had my opinion of Lessers, which wasn't superlative.

Its nice stuff, as I said the Blues are beautiful.

 

[Walter]

Manton used to touch himself inappropriately over it. Chris Despos on the other hand had my opinion of Lessers, which wasn't superlative.

i just got two words for chris despos

 

[doghouse]

Its nice stuff, as I said the Blues are beautiful.

It's ok. I prefer the old Smiths for blues myself.

 

[belinmad]

Sure. I've never heard a tailor say any of those things you mentioned either. But I have heard them say that newer winding technique, material blending and other attributes make modern cloth perform better in situations like being able to be sewn at very light weights, holding shape over it's lifetime, being more more resistant to wrinkles when traveling, etc...

A modern 9oz can hold shape like an old 13oz, which is an affront to the Cult of Ludicrously Heavy Cloth ™, whose very existence sprang from the fact that lighter cloth used to be horrendously difficult to sew properly and get to hold shape.

Fascinating. We must be using very, very different tailors then.

 

[doghouse]

Fascinating. We must be using very, very different tailors then.

Indeed.

 

[Walter]

When I visited Cerrato a couple of weeks ago he was cutting a pair of trousers out of a very lightweight Diamante Blu made for Kiton. He didn't like the cloth at all. Very light, very soft hand but imposible to have it hang properly.

Kiton. Targetted at nouveau riche americans and russians. People that are not appreciative of the old.

 

[belinmad]

I met a tailor and when I mentioned LL cloth he dismissed the cloth as far too heavy. He had a suit cut from the fabric and it felt like a brick of lead. Very heavy. I think it was some ridiculous 18 oz chalk stripe.

There's a lot going on under the LL roof. Some of it is (ridiculously) heavy, some of it is light (and not great, to be honest). A lot of it is unique and interesting, but overall expensive. A nice to have, for very specific things. If you're looking for a navy blue worsted for a business suit, there's no point in paying 120 GBP for it.

 

[formby002]

Heavy cloths, especially milled ones are more forgiving of crap finishing, they soak a stitch better.

Clear-cut worsteds show everything.

 

[doghouse]

People that are not appreciative of the old anything worthwhile whatsoever.

 

[Thruth]

Sure. I've never heard a tailor say any of those things you mentioned either. But I have heard them say that newer winding technique, material blending and other attributes make modern cloth perform better in situations like being able to be sewn at very light weights, holding shape over it's lifetime, being more more resistant to wrinkles when traveling, etc...

A modern 9oz can hold shape like an old 13oz, which is an affront to the Cult of Ludicrously Heavy Cloth ™, whose very existence sprang from the fact that lighter cloth used to be horrendously difficult to sew properly and get to hold shape.

Hey, I resemble that remark! Even when factoring in the cold of Canadia and controlling for central heating, I don't wear anything lighter than 11 to 13 oz. But I'm strange that I will wear cashmere to almost 70 F.

 

[Walter]

rangoon was a fantastic light option. As was Airborne, also from Minnis. Impossible to find anymore, unfortunately.

Until recently, i found it fairly easy to get hold of old stoch rangoon through various jobbers. Ymmv.

 

[doghouse]

Heavy cloths, especially milled ones are more forgiving of crap finishing, they soak a stitch better.

Yeah, this is one of those verities I was talking about. This was true 30 years ago but no more, and people are slow to change, especially tailors who are more set in their ways than most.

 

[belinmad]

Until recently, i found it fairly easy to get hold of old stoch rangoon through various jobbers. Ymmv.

Please point me in their direction. I'd love to get a couple of lengths worth

 

[Thruth]

Thats not been made for years. I think I have a suit out of it somewhere.

I know but wasn't there a special run or an attempt at it by SF peoples or am I imagining it?

 

[doghouse]

Hey, I resemble that remark! Even when factoring in the cold of Canadia and controlling for central heating, I don't wear anything lighter than 11 to 13 oz. But I'm strange that I will wear cashmere to almost 70 F.

This is me at 830 am yesterday merely walking around for 30 minutes wearing only a linen shirt.

 

[formby002]

Yeah, this is one of those verities I was talking about. This was true 30 years ago but no more, and people are slow to change, especially tailors who are more set in their ways than most.

Not really, old dogs new tricks as they say. Younger tailors learned their trade sewing and working lighter cloth. Older tailors cant be arsed given that they may also be artheritic and have deteriorating eyesight.

 

[Thruth]

i just got two words for chris despos

View attachment 34614

In some cases yes, but he can do nice stuff. Of course if all one sees is SF commissions that is only part of the story. Around 2010 I met with him and was all set to get something done then my property flooded and I spent the suit budget on pumps and 1500 m of hose and never did go back.

 

[formby002]

.Not all heavy cloth is/was good. A lot of it was crap.

 

[Thruth]

This is me at 830 am yesterday merely walking around for 30 minutes wearing only a linen shirt.

View attachment 34616

Seriously? Put some fucking pants on then. It was 39 C here yesterday so I was looking like that in a hemp shirt. I'd show you a pic of my ass in my double-knee canvas pants but that would chase new members away

 

[doghouse]

Not really, old dogs new tricks as they say. Younger tailors learned their trade sewing and working lighter cloth. Older tailors cant be arsed given that they may also be artheritic and have deteriorating eyesight.

Certainly some of that too.

In some cases yes, but he can do nice stuff. Of course if all one sees is SF commissions that is only part of the story. Around 2010 I met with him and was all set to get something done then my property flooded and I spent the suit budget on pumps and 1500 m of hose and never did go back.

I'm not really into his style per se, but he is one of the best technical minds in the business that I have encountered. Not one of these humble arthisan clowns.

I'd show you a pic of my ass in my double-knee canvas pants but that would chase new members away

Please no.

 

[Thruth]

Certainly some of that too.



I'm not really into his style per se, but he is one of the best technical minds in the business that I have encountered. Not one of these humble arthisan clowns.



Please no.

What I liked about him was his thoughts on tissue despite us not always being simpatico. No love for spit-through worsted flannels

 

[Grand Potentate]

This is me at 830 am yesterday merely walking around for 30 minutes wearing only a linen shirt.

View attachment 34616

solidarity

 

[ASSHAT]

May i ask why you are considering getting a blazer made in lesser or scabal 9oz cloth. I know i’m new here, but reading up on some of your posts you didnt strike me as a man dreaming about a navy blazer in summer suiting fabric. if that is really what you need look at mockleno from huddersfield fine worsted, h&s, smiths or some other usual suspects?

Actually, i was expecting you would be getting a cashmere blazer for the winter since you seem to always be cold, layering up etc? Why not get a nice beefy luxurious lp cashmere blazer?

The Shooman I honestly think these are great suggestions. I know of no lesser cloth in the 9/10 range that i would want to make into a blazer (and i love lessers). But they are suiting cloths. Sure they could pass easily enough as a blue blazer for the masses but imo they are not ideal. I would consider 2 blazers, one summer and one winter.

as you often appear to be cold, for the winter i would consider cashmere or something like harrisons moonbeam which is angora blend, both would be luxurious and worthy of a bespoke project. A navy flannel might also work. If you wanted something more straight forward a heavy serge or hopsack or even cav twill would be great in the 13 oz above range.

as mentioned for summer i would go for a fairly light or medium weight with an open weave fabric like a mesh or mock leno.

if you really wanted Just one blazer for all seasons i would look at heavier open weaves, like the super heavy fresco or drapers 4 ply cloth (forgot the name) or harrisons spring ram. As they are open weave you could breath a bit in them when the weather is warmer and they are heavy enough for the winter if you pair it with a cashmere vest.

 

[ASSHAT]

Lessers is known for its finish, or anti-finish...that matt look that gave the cloth, especially blues a richness.

Of the several tailors I have used over the years every one, when asked, said that the best cloth, without equal, was Reid & Taylor Silver Gander.

And that was both English and Italian tailors.

without a doubt. i have never encountered a tailor who was not thrilled to work with R&T silver gander or bronze eagle.

 

[doghouse]

harrisons moonbeam which is angora blend, both would be luxurious and worthy of a bespoke project.

Top tissue.

 

[Walter]

super heavy fresco or drapers 4 ply cloth (forgot the name)

Drapers five star by any chance?

 

[formby002]

Top tissue.

Aye, got a jacket made outta that. Brown Twill.