Brexit - The UK and the EU

Pimpernel Smith

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Tom Luongo: ''The EU is a scam and all of its policies were designed to do exactly what is done - impverish the working classes, enrich the aristocracy and enforce it through a Byzantine bureaucracy that makes the world of Terry Gillam's Brazil look like a Toyota factor floor.''

Note D notice allegedly issued at 5.12:


 
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formby

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Good presentation, but alas, they didn't factor in the post-referendum manoeuvres that led to the present stitch-up.
I like his comment at the end about PR companies being populated by bullshitting charlatans. That's true.

I've recently been reading some stuff by David Goodhart, an academic and remainer (a level-headed one). And in his opinion Project Fear actually worked, because if it hadn't, Leave would have won by even more. I think that's true too.

This is why I'll be suprised if there was 2nd referendum, there's a very real risk they'll lose again and then what?
 

Pimpernel Smith

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I like his comment at the end about PR companies being populated by bullshitting charlatans. That's true.

I've recently been reading some stuff by David Goodhart, an academic and remainer (a level-headed one). And in his opinion Project Fear actually worked, because if it hadn't, Leave would have won by even more. I think that's true too.

This is why I'll be suprised if there was 2nd referendum, there's a very real risk they'll lose again and then what?
They fear a second referendum as they know the risk is an even larger rejection of the EU. They would likely attempt to split the Out vote with additional questions.

These are good interviews with Gwythian Prins, I've posted the second one first for relevancy:

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/professor-prins-on-why-the-eu-is-doomed/

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/before-they-vote-mps-must-listen-to-this-man/
 

Kingstonian

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Realpolitik means a Remain Parliament will not deliver Brexit.

It’s just a question of how they manage it.

As George Carlin once said, the ‘owners of the country don’t want it’.
 

Kingstonian

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The reaction to the betrayal will be interesting.

Brits don’t really do tearing up the cobblestones yellow jacket stuff.

General election impact certainly, but parties may hope time is on their side.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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It's an elite coup. End of the Conservative Party ushering in a Marxist government.

Then again, this 3 day alternative plan thing, the only option is to stay in as the EU won't renegotiate.
 

Kingstonian

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It's an elite coup. End of the Conservative Party ushering in a Marxist government.

Then again, this 3 day alternative plan thing, the only option is to stay in as the EU won't renegotiate.
There are too many possibilities to predict which will occur.

May does not want WTO departure though. So Leaver pressure to delay and call an election to scupper Remain interference window seems highly unlikely.
 

formby

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They fear a second referendum as they know the risk is an even larger rejection of the EU. They would likely attempt to split the Out vote with additional questions.

These are good interviews with Gwythian Prins, I've posted the second one first for relevancy:

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/professor-prins-on-why-the-eu-is-doomed/

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/before-they-vote-mps-must-listen-to-this-man/
As I've mentioned in another post, if they do decide to go ahead, they'll likely attempt to gerrymander.

What the whole mess has done, for those who care, is just show what a facade democracy in Britain actually is. British politics will be damaged for decades no matter what the outcome.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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The whole of Europe is a powder keg and May's trap will not end well for the Conservatives and political civil war will commence, as too it is in Europe:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/81678...t-violence-british-parliament-laughing-stock/

It won't end when Northern Ireland is annexed by the EU and the rest of the UK locked in as a vassal colony for all eternity.....that will only be the beginning. And as the EU project continues to disintegrate the deceitful shame and cowardice of the effete British Establishment will be stark as the UK had so much traction to be gained by being first out of the stifling and rotten enterprise.
 

Rambo

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I understand this is a dumb question for the euro's and those not familiar, but why can't Ireland re-unite into one country at this point? Its been what, two, three decades since The Troubles hasn't it?
 

formby

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I understand this is a dumb question for the euro's and those not familiar, but why can't Ireland re-unite into one country at this point? Its been what, two, three decades since The Troubles hasn't it?
Because a large portion of their population don't want to. The Unionists want to remain in a union with Britain not Ireland.

Most British probably wouldn't bat an eyelid if they reunited. I know I wouldn't.
 
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That's obviously the plan and most likely how it will work out. Vote down, new referendum and/or general election + chaos.
New referendum is a bridge too far methinks. They'll unleash forces they won't be able to contain.

Vote down, should simply mean WTO 29th March. But it likely won't.....

Perhaps May has played a blinder all along, knowing that the EU can't negotiate and soon Germany would be in recession and could use the vote this evening to go back and start real negotiations. Hard to believe.

Betrayal of Brexit will lead to political civil war in the UK: end of the Conservatives in present form, possibly Labour as well. A real Brexit may bring that about too!

Incidentally, I got my letter from the Dutch immigration yesterday: as of 29th March I have 15 months automatic residency and as I am married to a Dutch national and with Dutch children I will be granted full residency and all the other benefits of being a 52% tax payer and wealth creator after this period. Even though I am a Brit. I was hoping they were going to give me a fully legal and legitimate reason to escape!
 

Fwiffo

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If Britain continues to dither and do nothing after the March deadline they will, if they already aren't, become the biggest laughing stock because if they were huffing and puffing to get a better deal they were just called out on it.
 
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If Britain continues to dither and do nothing after the March deadline they will, if they already aren't, become the biggest laughing stock because if they were huffing and puffing to get a better deal they were just called out on it.
The default position, in an act of Parliament and in law, is that the Brits leave on 29th March. That is the current state of play. Unless the EU prostrate itself with concessions - highly unlikely as the EU don't do negotiations - or May comes up with some miraculous Plan B acceptable to everyone, then it is WTO terms and dignity maintained. However, expect shenanigans, sleight of hands and an exit of Brexit by kicking the can down the road on the pretence of ''We're not quite ready yet.....''

The fact that this will expose the Brit establishment as effete, ineffectual and frightened of their own shadow does not embarrass them one jolt. Do you honestly think the barren hags that rule western europe have any sense of decency or pride?
 

sirloin

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This thing. This Eton/Oxford construct. Such a colossal waste of time and resources, and what have it amounted to? A botched effort to get something better, than what was had and not succeeding while attempting just that. Le sigh.

Anyway, Macron lay out the options here. Take your pick, and stop wasting everyones time.
 

formby

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This thing. This Eton/Oxford construct. Such a colossal waste of time and resources, and what have it amounted to? A botched effort to get something better, than what was had and not succeeding while attempting just that. Le sigh.

Anyway, Macron lay out the options here. Take your pick, and stop wasting everyones time.
People like Cliffe are part of the problem, not the solution. He's a delusional utopianist. As for quoting Macron with approval...well its always easier to tell someone how to clear up their mess as opposed to cleaning up your own I suppose.

The causes of Brexit ARE NOT down to Etonian / Oxbridge conspiracy.

The current narrative that Brexit happened because some politicians lied, is BULLSHIT. Do they really believe that over 17m people voted out because: A. BUS. TOLD. THEM. TO. DO. IT? Or that Russian Troll Farms told them.

Fucking delusional.

Take a look at the rise of the far right in Europe, the riots in France, Trump in America. The wheels are coming off and the elites are blaming everybody but themselves.

...and it will get worse because of it.
 
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This thing. This Eton/Oxford construct. Such a colossal waste of time and resources, and what have it amounted to? A botched effort to get something better, than what was had and not succeeding while attempting just that. Le sigh.

Anyway, Macron lay out the options here. Take your pick, and stop wasting everyones time.
70% of the supplies come from continental Europe? Interesting. Makes me wonder who has more to loose. No French, Italian and Spanish fruits, vegetables, olive oil and wine sold in the UK, no German cars, no Danish pork and whatever else comes across the channel.
Western Europe is slowly sliding into a recession and here foremost Germany. The stupid sanctions against Russia and the US trade war with China is really hurting the German economy. Add to that the still unsolved mass immigration problem all over Western Europe and it becomes obvious that the EU will crumble sooner or later. There is also another global financial crisis looming.
However, going by what I see on a daily basis I'd say most Brits could do with a little bit of fasting. Will save the NHS billions. Problem solved.
 
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