Brexit - The UK and the EU

Grand Potentate

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Imagine being a British company begging (threatening?) the government to allow you to continue your exploitative business practices, and then imagine a soi-disant liberal media outlet enabling it.
Imagine an exploitative economic system built upon this very premise…

If these figures are right, there's no shortage of HGV license holders in the UK, entice them back with decent wages and conditions, but that's not what the low paid gig economy is about is it:

Huh. I do wonder though if it would be cheaper to get immigrants to do it. Ah well, nevertheless….
 

Grand Potentate

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Not sure what you are saying here?
well lets see. first we had brexit, in which we didn't want these swarthy looking poles coming over and taking all of our jobs. now that they're gone, we're left to reckon with the fact that none of our companies are paying enough for the dogshit jobs they want people to do. so you have to wonder what joining the EU was really about, don't you?
 

Pimpernel Smith

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well lets see. first we had brexit, in which we didn't want these swarthy looking poles coming over and taking all of our jobs. now that they're gone, we're left to reckon with the fact that none of our companies are paying enough for the dogshit jobs they want people to do. so you have to wonder what joining the EU was really about, don't you?
Good job the Brits are out then. FYI: Poles are generally not swarthy.

I wouldn't call lorry driving a dogshit job. It's certainly tough, underpaid and occupation that deserves more respected particularly from the EU loving liberal intelligentsia.
 
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Grand Potentate

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well lets see. first we had brexit, in which we didn't want these swarthy looking poles coming over and taking all of our jobs. now that they're gone, we're left to reckon with the fact that none of our companies are paying enough for the dogshit jobs they want people to do. so you have to wonder what joining the EU was really about, don't you?
Good job the Brits are out then. FYI: Poles are generally not swarthy.

I wouldn't call lorry driving a dogshit job. It's certainly tough, underpaid and occupation that deserves more respected particularly from the EU loving liberal intelligentsia.
yes you definitely took this post the right way
 

formby002

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well lets see. first we had brexit, in which we didn't want these swarthy looking poles coming over and taking all of our jobs. now that they're gone, we're left to reckon with the fact that none of our companies are paying enough for the dogshit jobs they want people to do. so you have to wonder what joining the EU was really about, don't you?
The problem is the UK. The EU merely provides a pool of cheap labour. It is British businesses who choose to use exploitative business practices and this has been allowed to happen under both Labour and Conservative governments.

In fact, some of the worst sweatshops exist under Labour-run councils that refuse to use the powers they already have to close them down. Can't possibly think in some cases why that is.

As an aside you should read Ben Judah's This is London. It's an eye-opener.

 

formby002

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LOL. Brexit...

Oh...

1633350828910.png


1633350935566.png
 

Grand Potentate

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It is British businesses who choose to use exploitative business practices and this has been allowed to happen under both Labour and Conservative governments.
JESUS CHRIST YES I KNOW IT WAS SARCASM ABOUT CAPITALISM'S EXPLOITATIVE BUSINESS MODEL.

In fact, some of the worst sweatshops exist under Labour-run councils that refuse to use the powers they already have to close them down. Can't possibly think in some cases why that is.
CAPITALISM IS WHY
 

formby002

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Pimpernel Smith

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Well, that's what Rambo was driving at.

We're also in for a bumpy ride energy-wise too. Let us see how the Germans cope now that they're fellating Putin's pipe.
My arch-nemesis was on that particular project in the head office in Amsterdam. He's currently boasting about all the back-handers he's received and dodgy placements that netted him 6 million over the life of the project. He's a known crook to one of the partners, ENI, after I whistle blew, but after that they sent him to Pakistan for his crimes and then had to get rid as they basically dumped him on the unsuspecting country manager. The Americans know about him too. They could have gone to town, but maybe that's to come. There could be some catastrophic process equipment failures too based on the above and details received from those on the inside trying to do a good job. So the smooth flow of gas, whether by Putin's design or not, may be interrupted anyway.

The energy policy across Europe is currently based on fantasy, fudged renewables and the strong grip of Putin. What could possibly go wrong?
 

Grand Potentate

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Same exploitative business model behind it too;)

Well, that's what Rambo was driving at.
well was i wrong? if its not brexit related then what could it possibly be?????
The energy policy across Europe is currently based on fantasy, fudged renewables and the strong grip of Putin. What could possibly go wrong?
well instead of chasing profits we could invest our money and resources into doing what is best for the people and the planet. but that would get in the way of profits so we can't possibly do that.
 

fxh

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There's no shortage of petrol, the refineries don't get the oil from the continent anyway.

The issue is one of lack of drivers, the backlog at the DVLA caused through the lockdown and their strike, the Uber style Apps that some of the sections of the industry embraced, the crap ability of this government and civil service to plan, opening up after lock-down and the GBP 11-17 an hour that HGV drivers get paid. Which I am sure you can get stacking shelves on the nightshift somewhere. Back in the old days, the drivers were staff for the oil companies and some of them still may be. With good pensions and comparative good wages and conditions.

The issue of EU lorry drivers jobbing in the UK, should have been well seen and planned for if they decided to return home.

The perishable goods issue is both ways and to do with the bureacracy, the English/Expat supermarkets here just stock the beer, crisps, cereals, jams and the American equivalent now. It's inconvenient if you like pork pies or English bacon.
I don’t understand the truckie problem, (or as they say over there lorry drivers)

Are they really that badly paid?

I still have my Heavy Vehicle Semi Trailer Endorsed Licence. Haven’t upgraded to get B Double or Road Train licence.

Perhaps I should hop over to UK and get a job.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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I don’t understand the truckie problem, (or as they say over there lorry drivers)

Are they really that badly paid?

I still have my Heavy Vehicle Semi Trailer Endorsed Licence. Haven’t upgraded to get B Double or Road Train licence.

Perhaps I should hop over to UK and get a job.
According to this average salary is 8% higher than the UK's national average, it's not great pay:

 

fxh

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According to this average salary is 8% higher than the UK's national average, it's not great pay:

So - that's about aud$60k - to aud$118k - That's not real bad money here - but from my experience living costs are (much?) higher in UK. Not sure UK costs and living standards are a mystery to me. It seems so variable - great place to be wealthy bad place to be poor. Dunno about the middle or lumpen

I'm guess its a lot more than the dole ? I 've no idea about UK dole
 

Pimpernel Smith

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So - that's about aud$60k - to aud$118k - That's not real bad money here - but from my experience living costs are (much?) higher in UK. Not sure UK costs and living standards are a mystery to me. It seems so variable - great place to be wealthy bad place to be poor. Dunno about the middle or lumpen

I'm guess its a lot more than the dole ? I 've no idea about UK dole
The UK, particularly England, is a tremendous and wonderful country to be rich in. But poor, it's extremely grotty and grim, especially on those sink estates. For the average/lumpen you need to be in the provinces and in an area of cheap housing for it to deliver. Those salaries for lorry drivers, if your partner is also working with similar wages, then in the provinces outside of the Home Counties, you can live a reasonable life. But a lot of those Barrett style semi-detached housing estates in the UK are dreadful on several measures, particularly size and sound proofing.

The dole is complex and like the Netherlands, open to abuse and hiding long term unemployment through the permanent sick. A deliberate policy. I can remember a storeman working in the late 1990s with 2 kids telling us that to make work viable for him, he needed to pick-up after taxes GBP 1400, otherwise he was better off on unemployment benefits.
 

belinmad

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At the butcher’s today. Asked for bone marrow. She said the slaughter house is not doing “off cuts” anymore as since Brexit they can’t find staff to process it.
 

belinmad

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It's a nothing burger, slow news day. They have two lines, as they do here, EU nationals and non-EU passport holders. That's how it works.
Went to Portugal last week - you should have seen the dismay in every Brit’s face when they realized they were singled out to the “slow queue” as non EU. Priceless
 

formby002

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Went to Portugal last week - you should have seen the dismay in every Brit’s face when they realized they were singled out to the “slow queue” as non EU. Priceless
For someone who seems to dislike the British, its odd that you have chosen to live here.
 

belinmad

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For someone who seems to dislike the British, its odd that you have chosen to live here.
1. I don’t dislike Brits, just Brexiteers
2. I didn’t choose to live here - I have a very lucrative job that keeps me here. The other option would be to move back to NY, which I don’t like either
3. I’ll be gone as soon as my daughter is done with high school.
 

formby002

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1. I don’t dislike Brits, just Brexiteers
2. I didn’t choose to live here - I have a very lucrative job that keeps me here. The other option would be to move back to NY, which I don’t like either
3. I’ll be gone as soon as my daughter is done with high school.
1. I'm a Brexiteer myself (I don't care for the label) and, not all Brexiteers are foaming at-the-mouth loons, ditto remainers, but the loons on both sides are the nosiest and we have a national media obsessed with controver$y and provides disproportionate airtime to the them, they then, become synonymous with each group drowning out more moderate minds. We also have a 'liberal intellectual' establishment that has been driven literally barking mad by Brexit.

Example: Look at the state of Nu-Labour darling and ex-Oxford college principle Will Hutton's demented take here:

1651411335513.png

2. You choose to live here.

3. Can't comment.
 

belinmad

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1. I'm a Brexiteer myself (I don't care for the label) and, not all Brexiteers are foaming at-the-mouth loons, ditto remainers, but the loons on both sides are the nosiest and we have a national media obsessed with controver$y and provides disproportionate airtime to the them, they then, become synonymous with each group drowning out more moderate minds. We also have a 'liberal intellectual' establishment that has been driven literally barking mad by Brexit.

Example: Look at the state of Nu-Labour darling and ex-Oxford college principle Will Hutton's demented take here:

View attachment 43425
2. You choose to live here.

3. Can't comment.
Awesome analysis, thank you. Can I now go back to laughing at Brexiteers who get mad when border rules that they voted for are applied to them, or do you think we need further debate on this?
 

formby002

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Awesome analysis, thank you. Can I now go back to laughing at Brexiteers who get mad when border rules that they voted for are applied to them, or do you think we need further debate on this?
It wasn't meant to be an analysis, awesome or otherwise, just a staement of common sense. Not all Brexitters are mini-me Farage types.

By the way, how do you know those queuing at the Portuguese border control were all Brexitters. Did you go down the queue and ask them?
 

belinmad

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I don't have a problem. You made a statement, I just asked you to provide some evidence. That's all.

Ok, let me restate: a group of Brits, having just landed in a EU country, are disappointed that border rules that 52% of their country voted for are applied to them.

A good number of them, proportion of which is unknown, seemed, based on their commentary and behavior, surprised/disappointed by said rules being applied to them.

Based on this behavior, I thought both fair as well as statistically accurate to assume some of them voted for said rules. I agree with you that maybe some of them voted remain.

My educated guess is that, while frustrated, the portion of remainers did not express this frustration, as they understood said rules were applied as a direct consequence of the above mentioned vote.

Happy now, Mr “I am a Brexiteer but not like Farage”?
 

formby002

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Ok, let me restate: a group of Brits, having just landed in a EU country, are disappointed that border rules that 52% of their country voted for are applied to them.

A good number of them, proportion of which is unknown, seemed, based on their commentary and behavior, surprised/disappointed by said rules being applied to them.

Based on this behavior, I thought both fair as well as statistically accurate to assume some of them voted for said rules. I agree with you that maybe some of them voted remain.

My educated guess is that, while frustrated, the portion of remainers did not express this frustration, as they understood said rules were applied as a direct consequence of the above mentioned vote.

Happy now, Mr “I am a Brexiteer but not like Farage”?
Allow me to offer, in the spirit of detente; a simpler, condensed version:

'I made a stupid remark, an unsubstantiated generalism, something that I often pull-up others for...OK!'

Happy now, Mr Thin-skinned...?
 
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