güero
Talk to me like a 5 year old daddy
- Messages
- 2,108
Why do Brit politicians hate their country and their people so much? Sad!
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Because they are bought and paid for.Why do Brit politicians hate their country and their people so much? Sad!
. The sell-out and capitulation will go down in history as the ultimate end of Great Britain/UK PLC's power and cultural significance.
The UK hasn't had power and cultural significance in 40 years. I don't know where you guys get this wild eyed notion.
The UK hasn't had power and cultural significance in 40 years. I don't know where you guys get this wild eyed notion.
But wait, another former great EX-empire, that of the Romans are with us & others too.
Some of the Arthurian legends and William Blake predicted this time when hirelings were sent to sell Albion into slavery.....
Fear not gentle reader, events dear boy, events! And fear not our own shadow, for we have stood alone before.....
But wait, another former great empire, that of the Romans are with us & others too. Two great forces for civilization are now on a head on collision with the Continental system of Germany and France, two nations that always went out of their way to subjugate, control and dominate.
I was at a 50th yesterday and this was with some of the wife's academic and political friends. This professor of linguistics latched onto me straight away and was greatly impressed with my accent and intonation and the way my speech sang. And then after some conversation she said it's just dawned on me, you have the same speech patterns and wit of The Beatles! She quizzed me about Brexit of course and she spends a bit of time at Oxbridge and various universities in mainland Europe. She's unimpressed with the arrogance of the pro-EU establishment and says the gulf between them and the working people seems as rigid as the old class system. She was unimpressed with the decline of the many of the European cities into replicas of each other with no national identity.
Speaking to several people over the night, Brexit was always brought up as I was the token Brit, only one person was for the EU. Everyone else was had a lot of agreement and hope for the UK in breaking out.
The only other not worthy discussion of the evening, was with this poor chap who thought we would be completely fossil fuel free and I mean 100% by 2030.
People who reference Rome as a positive example are the funniest.
Seems popular amongst some Americans to compare their current situation with that of the Fall of Rome.
A bit (melo)dramtic...
Very Bannonesqe really. Quite dramatic and misplaced.
What is now being proposed by the government as the best deal available is in historical terms a monstrosity. It is practically unheard of in modern international relations for an independent state to place itself under foreign jurisdiction and foreign legislation. One would have to think of colonial status (for example of the American colonies before 1776) for an adequate analogy. For a modern democratic state to deny its own citizens even an indirect voice in deciding the laws governing them for an indefinite period would previously have been unimaginable: taxation without representation, to the tune of £39 billion.
Seems popular amongst some Americans to compare their current situation with that of the Fall of Rome.
That sums up the predicament perfectly.
I was referring not to the fall of Rome, but the power and prestige of the Roman and British Empires. The Italians take great pride in their cultural history and have IMCO a sense of exceptionalism. I also see that Macron was eyeing-up ENI and the Fincanteri shipyards last week. The Italians will not accept vassalage like the Greeks.
That sums up the predicament perfectly.
I was referring not to the fall of Rome, but the power and prestige of the Roman and British Empires. The Italians take great pride in their cultural history and have IMCO a sense of exceptionalism. I also see that Macron was eyeing-up ENI and the Fincanteri shipyards last week. The Italians will not accept vassalage like the Greeks.
How I speak Italian...I wouldn't let the Italians run one of my landscape crews, much less a country or empire.
Yeah, there really isn't any prestige to the Roman Empire is the point, it was an abject shithole. Misplaced Italian exceptionalism is just one of the myriad idiocies from that ridiculous idea. I wouldn't let the Italians run one of my landscape crews, much less a country or empire.
After the first string of emperors, it wasn't exclusively Italian. That was part of the genius of the empire - being able to integrate and put Spaniards, Africans, Balkans, Syrians, etc into the governing apparatus. How enduring is one's identity when after the fall of the capitol and the namesake another group of mostly Greek speaking people continued the same principles and ethos for nearly another thousand years and called themselves Rhomaioi or Romans.
Romanes eunt domus!
The Greeks in particular are probably the best teaching point when trying to contrast the relatively new and silly concept of the nation state.
My friend, this is your second daft statement this week. Lay off the Gin
No.1
Britain hasn't been cultural significance for 40 years.
What you actually meant to say, or thought you were saying is that Britain HASN'T produced anything of cultural significance for 40 years. Which is still wrong but far less so.
I think you'll find that Shakespeare's plays are still rather popular around the globe, and people as far as I can tell, still read Dickens.
No.2
[...]relatively new and silly concept of the nation state
You do realise that those institutions that you rely upon every day would not exist if it wasn't for the concept of the nation state?
No, they are the state, not a nation state. And Britain ceded cultural relevance ages ago, there's only the last artifacts from the Empire floating about now, mostly labels of a few governing bodies.. The latest you can possibly claim was up until you idiotically handed over Hong Kong with a whimper.
There was nothing they could do about Hong Kong. The Chinese has a huge army just over the border. We could have nuked I suppose, but I doubt Clinton would have given us the launch codes! Britain's nuclear deterrent isn't independent as is often claimed and our seat on the Security Council is a mirage.
So, you're wrong on that score too.
I mean, I'm not wrong on any score. Nothing I've said is remotely controversial or questioned. I specifically mentioned the Greeks because they are probably the single most used example for teaching students the definitions of nations and nation states. It's literally in almost every textbook.
China was not invading Hong Kong either. Britain just lost it's appetite to maintain it, like the rest of the Empire. It was the last time Britain was actively influencing culture on the world stage though, unless you want to count Downton Abbey. Everything else is just leftover artifacts from the Imperial past
I mean, you know I'm the most avid Anglophile here short of Fwiffo , it's not like I have any vested interest in minimizing British culture. Quite the opposite, I constantly moan at the lack of appreciation of it. Doesn't obviate the fact that it's not a dominant factor worldwide anymore.
The only reason I even stop in this thread is to watch the completely predictable trainwreck. If you scroll back however many thousand pages it's run now, you'll see my position is the UK should have been the Euro-wide hegemon in the first place. All this "Woe is me we're losing our autonomy and subjugated blah blah blah..." is your own fault. The UK is too small to have much global say individually anymore, so Brexit is dumb, but would be a major power as the de facto leader of the EU, much like Germany is today. This is a totally self inflicted situation by lack of foresight.
The EU could have been a thriving coalition under British style governance, who are pretty capable at that sort of thing, but instead y'all let the fucking Germans run the goddamn thing with predictable results.
I mean, I'm not wrong on any score. Nothing I've said is remotely controversial or questioned. I specifically mentioned the Greeks because they are probably the single most used example for teaching students the definitions of nations and nation states. It's literally in almost every textbook.
China was not invading Hong Kong either. Britain just lost it's appetite to maintain it, like the rest of the Empire. It was the last time Britain was actively influencing culture on the world stage though, unless you want to count Downton Abbey. Everything else is just leftover artifacts from the Imperial past
I mean, you know I'm the most avid Anglophile here short of Fwiffo , it's not like I have any vested interest in minimizing British culture. Quite the opposite, I constantly moan at the lack of appreciation of it. Doesn't obviate the fact that it's not a dominant factor worldwide anymore.
The only reason I even stop in this thread is to watch the completely predictable trainwreck. If you scroll back however many thousand pages it's run now, you'll see my position is the UK should have been the Euro-wide hegemon in the first place. All this "Woe is me we're losing our autonomy and subjugated blah blah blah..." is your own fault. The UK is too small to have much global say individually anymore, so Brexit is dumb, but would be a major power as the de facto leader of the EU, much like Germany is today. This is a totally self inflicted situation by lack of foresight.
The EU could have been a thriving coalition under British style governance, who are pretty capable at that sort of thing, but instead y'all let the fucking Germans run the goddamn thing with predictable results.
I mean, you know I'm the most avid Anglophile here short of Fwiffo , it's not like I have any vested interest in minimizing British culture.
The Brits had to return Hong Kong to China as the agreed lease was up.
.
Dawg, I'll keep this brief.
You're wrong about Hong Kong because as Pimpy said the lease ran out in 97. The Chinese weren't going to extend it so there was nothing that we could do. If we had refused there is a good chance the Chinese would have taken Hong Kong by force when the lease ran out. This was my point about the large Chinese force and our inability to repulse it by conventional military means.
Dawg, I'll keep this brief.
You're wrong about Hong Kong because as Pimpy said the lease ran out in 97. The Chinese weren't going to extend it so there was nothing that we could do. If we had refused there is a good chance the Chinese would have taken Hong Kong by force when the lease ran out. This was my point about the large Chinese force and our inability to repulse it by conventional military means.
There was no lack of foresight just realpolitik.
As for cultural significance, Britain's rich history, its literature, its language, its thinkers will mean it remains culturally significant for quite some time yet. There is a reason why London is one of the world's most visited cities and why visitors from all other the world visit its cathedrals and country houses.
You're a Savile Row man, you should know all this.
As for Brexit, its mainly a classical liberal argument for me, I want to keep those in power close enough for me to be able to kick their arses., the EU is heading in the opposite direction. I also feel that the British economy is seriously dysfunctional and needs rebalancing. This is made more difficult with OJEU regulations.
Immigration isn't really an issue for me, even though it could have been handled better and this is down to the de haut en bas attitude of the government (see above).
As for Britain being a global power, not interested, been there, done that. Empires come and Empires go.
Other than the Hong Kong point, you aren't disagreeing with me at all then, you just don't care.
Surprise: The other EU states just approved the bad Brexit deal.