Car Talk

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After seeing how well they pulled-off the EX90, I’m interested in the EX60 release now. It has all the potential to blow the doors off the competitors in that class.
 
I got a ride in a workmate’s Rivian yesterday and was impressed. I wouldn’t buy one, but I’m more interested in the R2, having experienced their current production model. Right now, it seems Amazon is keeping them afloat with delivery truck production, but the next generation of smaller SUVs looks promising.
 
Dropbear said:
Interesting. I wouldn’t have thought it’s a demographic prone to recklessness, but maybe to an over-reliance on technology? Trusting too much on the alerts and sensors, etc
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It is also crappy drivers in a crappy car.
 
güero said:
It is also crappy drivers in a crappy car.
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Drivers, maybe. But a very safe car

The study's authors make clear that the results do not indicate Tesla vehicles are inherently unsafe or have design flaws. In fact, Tesla vehicles are loaded with safety technology; the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) named the 2024 Model Y as a Top Safety Pick+ award winner, for example. Many of the other cars that ranked highly on the list have also been given high ratings for safety by the likes of IIHS and the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration, as well.
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Dropbear said:
Drivers, maybe. But a very safe car
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That's probably a rubbish award? How can you have an extremely safe car (Model Y won a "Top Safety Pick+ award", whatever that is) while at the same time having "a fatal crash rate of 10.6, nearly four times the average" and Model Y ranking as "the sixth worst vehicle overall". I mean obviously Tesla drivers don't care at all about cars/driving and hence might well be worse drivers, but more than four times worse than the average driver? (since it is such a safe car, it should be harder to have a fatal accident) I would not have thought that. Of course relying on technology when driving is bad (you need to turn pretty much everything off on a race track), but if the technology works, it should not be a huge issue.
 
The Tesla Y is still dominating the market, though competitors are starting to emerge. I’m still waiting for the Volvo 60-series EV and the Rivian R2, but Polestar is still clinging on and fighting back. Lucid Gravity will probably be the best of the lot, but pricing themselves out of the market like they did with the sedan.

www.caranddriver.com

2025 Polestar 3 Review, Pricing, and Specs

The 2025 Polestar 3 is the EV brand’s first SUV, and it sports sleek styling, a high-end cabin with eco-friendly materials, and a decent driving range.
www.caranddriver.com www.caranddriver.com
 
Dropbear said:
The Tesla Y is still dominating the market, though competitors are starting to emerge. I’m still waiting for the Volvo 60-series EV and the Rivian R2, but Polestar is still clinging on and fighting back. Lucid Gravity will probably be the best of the lot, but pricing themselves out of the market like they did with the sedan.

www.caranddriver.com

2025 Polestar 3 Review, Pricing, and Specs

The 2025 Polestar 3 is the EV brand’s first SUV, and it sports sleek styling, a high-end cabin with eco-friendly materials, and a decent driving range.
www.caranddriver.com www.caranddriver.com
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Do not buy a lucid. It’s a piece of shit car.
 
Dropbear said:
The Tesla Y is still dominating the market, though competitors are starting to emerge. I’m still waiting for the Volvo 60-series EV and the Rivian R2, but Polestar is still clinging on and fighting back. Lucid Gravity will probably be the best of the lot, but pricing themselves out of the market like they did with the sedan.

www.caranddriver.com

2025 Polestar 3 Review, Pricing, and Specs

The 2025 Polestar 3 is the EV brand’s first SUV, and it sports sleek styling, a high-end cabin with eco-friendly materials, and a decent driving range.
www.caranddriver.com www.caranddriver.com
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Why aren't you considering electric cars from an actual car maker? I think pretty much all of them have fully electric cars by now. E.g. the Hyundai Ioniq 5N is rumored to be a real car, just electric.
 
Dropbear said:
What’s been the problem with yours?
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Tons of minor engineering and technical shit. It’s basically a race car dressed up as a sedan. Drives like a rocket ship and handles like a boat.

Biggest problem for me is lack of charging infrastructure since I can’t charge at home. Electrify America is a nightmare here and there is no other charging until the Tesla interoperability comes along.
 
Grand Potentate said:
Tons of minor engineering and technical shit. It’s basically a race car dressed up as a sedan. Drives like a rocket ship and handles like a boat.

Biggest problem for me is lack of charging infrastructure since I can’t charge at home. Electrify America is a nightmare here and there is no other charging until the Tesla interoperability comes along.
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Interesting. I loved the handling and didn’t have any issues. We already had a home Tesla charger, so easy to snap the adaptor onto that. I liked the car, but the Y is still better value unfortunately
 
Grand Potentate said:
www.404media.co

Elon Musk Uses Cybertruck Explosion to Show Tesla Can Remotely Unlock and Monitor Vehicles

Surveillance capabilities used and justified by extreme circumstances often trickle down to be used on lesser crimes.
www.404media.co www.404media.co

Dropbear Dropbear
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Cameras at charging stations are the same as at gas stations. I’m pretty sure most modern cars could be tracked through manufacturer telemetry.

If I owned one of those trash cans on wheels, I’d be more worried by the fact that it locked itself during the explosion.
 
Dropbear said:
Cameras at charging stations are the same as at gas stations. I’m pretty sure most modern cars could be tracked through manufacturer telemetry.

If I owned one of those trash cans on wheels, I’d be more worried by the fact that it locked itself during the explosion.
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Please explain how that is the same.
 
Dropbear said:
I’m pretty sure most modern cars could be tracked through manufacturer telemetry.
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All of them are tracked, the only thing differing is the extent. It's pretty bad, because they don't keep the data confidential:
www.spiegel.de

We Know Where You Parked: Massive Data Breach at VW Raises Questions about Vehicle Privacy

Already facing significant headwinds, VW has now been hit by a data protection nightmare. Location data from 800,000 electric vehicles and contact info from owners was accessible unprotected on the internet. And the company didn't even know about it.
www.spiegel.de www.spiegel.de
 
Dropbear said:
What? The security footage they pulled from the charging station?
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yes. how do you see those two things as being the same since the gas station company doesn't know how to correlate that data with your progress?

güero said:
It's pretty bad, because they don't keep the data confidential:
www.spiegel.de

We Know Where You Parked: Massive Data Breach at VW Raises Questions about Vehicle Privacy

Already facing significant headwinds, VW has now been hit by a data protection nightmare. Location data from 800,000 electric vehicles and contact info from owners was accessible unprotected on the internet. And the company didn't even know about it.
www.spiegel.de www.spiegel.de
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its not just that. they're collecting a MASSIVE amount of data on us with literally no oversight. i think i shared a link a while back in this thread about it.
 
Grand Potentate said:
yes. how do you see those two things as being the same since the gas station company doesn't know how to correlate that data with your progress?
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Still not sure why you’re asking me, but it sounds like charging stations have video surveillance of customers just like gas stations. What’s the progress you think they are correlating it with?
 
Dropbear said:
Still not sure why you’re asking me, but it sounds like charging stations have video surveillance of customers just like gas stations. What’s the progress you think they are correlating it with?
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I'm not trying to form an inquisition here for god's sake I'm just asking since you made the point. Think about how they'd have to track you at gas stations vs how it get tracked at Tesla superchargers. How many different points of contact and companies need to be monitored at gas stations - every brand of station, then the credit card network, or the car company, etc, vs at Tesla where its just a straight line of you tracking where you go.
 
Grand Potentate said:
I'm not trying to form an inquisition here for god's sake I'm just asking since you made the point. Think about how they'd have to track you at gas stations vs how it get tracked at Tesla superchargers. How many different points of contact and companies need to be monitored at gas stations - every brand of station, then the credit card network, or the car company, etc, vs at Tesla where its just a straight line of you tracking where you go.
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Based on what I see on my Tesla app and the other third party app I use, I’m pretty sure they can/will track you even if you don’t use superchargers (I don’t, there are almost non-existent in central and North London)
 
Grand Potentate said:
I'm not trying to form an inquisition here for god's sake I'm just asking since you made the point. Think about how they'd have to track you at gas stations vs how it get tracked at Tesla superchargers. How many different points of contact and companies need to be monitored at gas stations - every brand of station, then the credit card network, or the car company, etc, vs at Tesla where its just a straight line of you tracking where you go.
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If the point was to track your movements, they would just use car telemetry- which is pinging regularly and consistently. Monitoring someone based on occasional stops at charging stations (at most, every 300 miles) doesn’t add much to that. It is a concern - but it’s not unique to cyber trucks or Tesla.


belinmad said:
Based on what I see on my Tesla app and the other third party app I use, I’m pretty sure they can/will track you even if you don’t use superchargers (I don’t, there are almost non-existent in central and North London)
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Same. We’ve had our model Y for three years and never used a charging station. For me, that’s the whole point of an EV - the independence you get from being able to charge at home overnight. If I could have a petrol bowser in my garage, I’d probably buy another ICE car.
 
Dropbear said:
If the point was to track your movements, they would just use car telemetry- which is pinging regularly and consistently.
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this is all on the presumption that they know how to find you. lets say you drive a standard toyota camry, how easy do you think that would be for them?

Dropbear said:
For me, that’s the whole point of an EV - the independence you get from being able to charge at home overnight. If I could have a petrol bowser in my garage, I’d probably buy another ICE car.
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yes of course but that's not the point we're discussing here.

belinmad said:
Based on what I see on my Tesla app and the other third party app I use, I’m pretty sure they can/will track you even if you don’t use superchargers (I don’t, there are almost non-existent in central and North London)
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well you definitely don't need to be "pretty sure" of that now given that Elmo's come right out and admitted to it.
 
Grand Potentate said:
this is all on the presumption that they know how to find you. lets say you drive a standard toyota camry, how easy do you think that would be for them?
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If they have your VIN, then really really fucking easy.

www.wired.com

How Your New Car Tracks You

Vehicles from Toyota, Honda, Ford, and more can collect huge volumes of data. Here’s what the companies can access.
www.wired.com www.wired.com


Grand Potentate said:
yes of course but that's not the point we're discussing here.
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I dunno, man. You tagged me into this and I’m still not sure why. Tesla collects data on you just like every other car company.

You’re all driving around with a computer on board that is constantly pinging their servers and sharing data. My daily driver is too old for this, but I know my next car will. Besides, I’ve got my own gps tracker installed on the car with a kill switch in case it’s stolen.

I’ve never been to a charging station, but it sounds like they have video surveillance. That would be the least of your worries if you were concerned about the shit they already know about you.
 
Dropbear said:
I dunno, man. You tagged me into this and I’m still not sure why. Tesla collects data on you just like every other car company.
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Because you own a tesla and i thought you might be interested? If you don't want to talk about it just say you don't give a shit about it and move the fuck on. Jesus christ you're acting like you're trying to justify the actions of the Israeli government not talk about the shitty car company being able to narc you out to the cops.
 
Grand Potentate said:
Because you own a tesla and i thought you might be interested? If you don't want to talk about it just say you don't give a shit about it and move the fuck on. Jesus christ you're acting like you're trying to justify the actions of the Israeli government not talk about the shitty car company being able to narc you out to the cops.
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Your car is tracking you, your phone is tracking you. Half your household appliances are tracking you. If you don’t want to be watched, you’re going to have to go vintage, low-fi.

We all agree that Musk is a human garbage and his Rhodesian Ridgeline is a piece of shit. But this surveillance isn’t unique to Tesla.
 
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