Collar roll

[Sammy Ambrose]

'It's overstated isn't it, this thing about the importance of the roll on a button-down collar? The Ivy shirts I have from the 50s and 60s have really quite small button-down collars; they are beautifully shaped, soft and unlined but they do not really roll, there is instead just a minor kink so they don't lie flat against the rest of the shirt. And I think this was the norm. Even the classic, original Brooks collar, which did roll more than most, really acquired its beauty and fame due more to its softness of construction and quality of materials than the collar roll. It's another example of the distortions of time, the establishment of new orthodoxies of thinking that eliminate the complexities of the past. I partly blame the vulgarisation of the look in the mid to late 60s when British makers like Brutus and Jaytex just exaggerated everything to the point of parody. Old Ivy was really pretty subtle stuff.'

Film Noir Buff Style Forum / The myth of the roll

Posted by TRS on Talk Ivy.


This seems a good topic for discussion. For me a roll is important but it needn't be too big.

Your thoughts?

 

[Barking Pugilist]

Interesting point how a viewpoint on the importance of a particular aspect of the style is promoted on certain menswear forums and in time it becomes lore. The classic Brooks OCBD collar is held up as the ideal and of course it is, for that type of shirt - especially when worn with a tie. But an overly large collar looks wrong on a short sleeve sports shirt.

Didn’t Chensvold do some research on the ideal roll-promoting collar length? He had a hard time from certain quarters during his time in the chair at Ivy Style, but to be fair he did his homework on most things he wrote about.

 

[Streetlight]

There is a tendency to fetishism with these things over time. When was the earliest mention of 'collar roll'?

 

[Sammy Ambrose]

Interesting point how a viewpoint on the importance of a particular aspect of the style is promoted on certain menswear forums and in time it becomes lore. The classic Brooks OCBD collar is held up as the ideal and of course it is, for that type of shirt - especially when worn with a tie. But an overly large collar looks wrong on a short sleeve sports shirt.

Didn’t Chensvold do some research on the ideal roll-promoting collar length? He had a hard time from certain quarters during his time in the chair at Ivy Style, but to be fair he did his homework on most things he wrote about.

Not sure if this is the research you refer to, but here is an old Ivy Style article on collar roll.

Tip From Charlie: How to Rock the Roll - Ivy Style

When I visited The Andover Shop in 2010, Charlie Davidson had a handy tip if you’re unsatisfied with the collar roll on your buttondown oxfords. It goes like this: 1) Unbutton the collar. 2) Push it upwards until it achieves an arched shape. 3) Stick the tip of a pencil through the buttonhole...

www.ivy-style.com

 

[Sammy Ambrose]

There is a tendency to fetishism with these things over time. When was the earliest mention of 'collar roll'?

Good question.

 

[The Ernesto]

Need pics.

 

[Barking Pugilist]

Brooks Brothers Makers poplin shirt. 3 1/8” from the collar points to the neck seam, enough to provide a pleasing roll with a tie or worn open neck. The Brooks Makers shirts are held up to be the perfect Ivy shirt, but the collars still vary, some that I’ve got going up to 3 1/4”.

A J Press madras short sleeve, the collar measures 2 7/8”, to my eyes it’s adequate for a casual shirt. A lot of makers like Gant have gone to really small button down collars that I wouldn’t bother with because they look absurd.

I don’t want anyone to think that I’m obsessed with detail though. ;

 

[Sammy Ambrose]

Need pics.

How about this?

Morris Solid Cotton Oxford Sport Shirt

Description Introducing today’s version of the Duck Head OCBD, the Morris Shirt. We upgraded its soft 100% cotton fabric with comfortable “mechanical stretch”, which gives it elasticity with a natural hand. Just like our Khakis, it’ll be the most versatile piece in your wardrobe. Pair your OCBD...

www.duckhead.com

 

[fxh]

You wanna roll?

 

[fxh]

There is a tendency to fetishism with these things over time. When was the earliest mention of 'collar roll'?

The Boswell Sisters sang the song "Rock and Roll" in the 1934 film Transatlantic Merry-Go-Round.

 

[fxh]

Trixie smith - My Daddy Rocks Me (With One Steady Roll) 1938​

​

 

[Sammy Ambrose]

You wanna roll?
View attachment 44065

Open that second button. I have never known a woman who doesn't say that is the right style.

 

[Barking Pugilist]

As JFM used to say ‘It’s only collar roll … but I like it’.

 

[Sammy Ambrose]

Nothing exceptional here, but worth a link. And a comment by newish DW member, Heinz.

The secrets of the button down shirt and the 'collar roll'... MERCER & SONS or BROOKS BROTHERS ?

SEE ALSO: https://tweedlandthegentlemansclub.blogspot.com/2017/03/kamakura-shirts-power-of-creative.html (…) “Mercer ...

tweedlandthegentlemansclub.blogspot.com

 

[some bongo player]

How about this?

Morris Solid Cotton Oxford Sport Shirt

Description Introducing today’s version of the Duck Head OCBD, the Morris Shirt. We upgraded its soft 100% cotton fabric with comfortable “mechanical stretch”, which gives it elasticity with a natural hand. Just like our Khakis, it’ll be the most versatile piece in your wardrobe. Pair your OCBD...

www.duckhead.com

View attachment 44064

That's hideous.

The rest of the thread is pretty good though.

 

[Pimpernel Smith]

How about this?

Morris Solid Cotton Oxford Sport Shirt

Description Introducing today’s version of the Duck Head OCBD, the Morris Shirt. We upgraded its soft 100% cotton fabric with comfortable “mechanical stretch”, which gives it elasticity with a natural hand. Just like our Khakis, it’ll be the most versatile piece in your wardrobe. Pair your OCBD...

www.duckhead.com

View attachment 44064

Looks too small for my button down roll ambitions.

Nothing exceptional here, but worth a link. And a comment by newish DW member, Heinz.

The secrets of the button down shirt and the 'collar roll'... MERCER & SONS or BROOKS BROTHERS ?

SEE ALSO: https://tweedlandthegentlemansclub.blogspot.com/2017/03/kamakura-shirts-power-of-creative.html (…) “Mercer ...

tweedlandthegentlemansclub.blogspot.com

All the button-down shirts I bought from Mercer & Sons in the early 2010's with the exception of the madras one, which I spilt red wine over, are all in rotation still. But I have to say, they look better with a tie than without.

 

[Sammy Ambrose]

How is Joe's?

Does he wear button-down with jackets?

 

[Thruth]

How is Joe's?

Does he wear button-down with jackets?View attachment 44225

He doesn't wear them with a suit even when he is tieless. Not that many blazer/sport coat shots out there.

 

[Pimpernel Smith]

How is Joe's?

Does he wear button-down with jackets?View attachment 44225

He wasn't really sure where he was. Wasn't it.

If he's leading the charge for the collar roll, it's over.

 

[Barking Pugilist]

If he's leading the charge for the collar roll, it's over.

Going on my age and the number of shirts in my wardrobe it will never be over for me.

 

[Dropbear]

Big collar rolls are ubiquitous in #menswear land these days, but I still rather like the Cooper collar for being a little less stuffy and establishment.

 

[Sammy Ambrose]

Going on my age and the number of shirts in my wardrobe it will never be over for me.

I wonder where Barking P has gone. He's stopped posting on FNB, too.

But setting that aside, I wonder how many posters and lurkers on the fora have wardrobes that'll outlast them? It must be many. I am one for sure.