Coronavirus

Fwiffo

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Essentially, it proposes three options:
- A, which is what Australia is doing now. This involves moderate measures, including people to work from home where possible, engage in social distancing, but keep schools open and not force any shutdowns. It is estimated that this situation will last 12-18 months.
- B, trace and track every single diagnosed infection and make those people self-isolate. Of course, A and B can be undertaken at the same time, if a country or area has the resources. The author considers that most of Australia is now beyond this, as we have too many infections.
- C, shut everything down for a period of time. This is, of course, essentially what China did in Wuhan and what appears to be happening in northern Italy. Shut everything non-essential - businesses, schools, factories and so on - for a period of perhaps 8 weeks. Keep some supermarkets open and, of course, keep hospitals open but, apart from that, shut everything down. This will starve the virus of opportunities to spread and should dramatically lower numbers.

Frankly, I think that C is the best option.

You are on option C now?

Option D should be we will just kill everyone who has the virus and quarantine anyone regardless of test result as long as they don’t look or smell like our own people.
 

formby001

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They have recovered and are desperate for our money. All we need to sort out is the logistics to deliver. What’s the issue? We own the intellectual property and patents.
I'm not quite sure what you are saying here...

But I will say that the Chinese don't give a fuck about IP and patent law.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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I'm not quite sure what you are saying here...

But I will say that the Chinese don't give a fuck about IP and patent law.
Nor about their own people too, led by a Winnie the Pooh figure, you couldn't make it up:


Meanwhile, I've been asked by our Saudi chums to ignore the decree in Italy and carry on working and again drawing us to clauses in the contract. Force Majeure. Simple as that. But I laid it on nice and thick with reference to unlawful acts, obeying the decree, professional standing, Health & Safety and business ethics. Rotten to the core.

Edit: India getting bad now. That'll go supernova there. Our guys extremely pessimistic there. Join the club and get the booze in.
 
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Kingstonian

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Pretty sure I sing that tune at footy games.
We have had English language classic arias such as ‘Just One Cornetto’ for decades :-

More recently the ‘Go Compare’ singer has been more prevalent:-

Not really a proper aria like ‘Just One Cornetto’ though.
 

Fwiffo

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watch the video
"The number of recorded deaths there recently overtook those in China, where the virus originated last year. Italy reported 651 coronavirus deaths on Sunday and saw its toll for the past month reach 5,476, the highest in the world."

The number of deaths slightly declined.
 

Scherensammler

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If what he says is true about the number of beds in Japan and Europe it's no wonder that Western countries are struggling.
 

Journeyman

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You are on option C now?
Not quite - not all states have shut down schools and all retail stores are still open.

There are a number of people, including some politicians and some medical organisations, that are lobbying for an almost total shutdown - schools, most workplaces (or work from home), all shops except supermarkets, convenience stores, pharmacies and petrol stations, and health providers. I really think that is the only way to beat this - starving it into submission. Otherwise it will simply continue to spread, albeit at a slower rate, and we will have to continue this economic decline, with most things closed and the hospitality and food industries entirely destroyed, for another 12 months or more.

If what he says is true about the number of beds in Japan and Europe it's no wonder that Western countries are struggling.
I didn't watch the clip (sorry!) but there are grave doubts about the veracity of Japan's data. Hardly anyone is being tested. People who die from pneumonia or other such complications aren't tested, even though they might actually have died because of the COVID-19 coronavirus.

I've read some news articles talking about how Japan took "strong action" and appears to have won as a result - but basically all Japan did was shut down schools for two weeks before the holidays. Some museums, art galleries and theme parks also closed. However, everything else remained open. High school kids who didn't have to go to school instead went into central Tokyo and hung around in crowds at cafes and bubble tea shops, thus entirely defeating the purpose behind closing the schools.

I may be wrong, but I strongly suspect that there are a lot of undiagnosed cases in Japan, including fatalities from COVID-19-induced conditions, that are simply going unrecognised.
 

Fwiffo

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I didn't watch the clip (sorry!) but there are grave doubts about the veracity of Japan's data. Hardly anyone is being tested. People who die from pneumonia or other such complications aren't tested, even though they might actually have died because of the COVID-19 coronavirus.

I've read some news articles talking about how Japan took "strong action" and appears to have won as a result - but basically all Japan did was shut down schools for two weeks before the holidays. Some museums, art galleries and theme parks also closed. However, everything else remained open. High school kids who didn't have to go to school instead went into central Tokyo and hung around in crowds at cafes and bubble tea shops, thus entirely defeating the purpose behind closing the schools.

I may be wrong, but I strongly suspect that there are a lot of undiagnosed cases in Japan, including fatalities from COVID-19-induced conditions, that are simply going unrecognised.
Much has been speculated why Italy is hard hit especially since people say Italy has one of the better health care systems.

Population that skews older - check for both Italy and Japan.

Population that still has significant amounts of smokers - check for both Italy and Japan.

Population where young people can't afford property so there are multi-generational households - Italy...not sure about Japan.

At least northern Italy is heavily polluted so people's immune systems and lungs were already compromised - Italy couldn't have been worse than China. Not sure about the pollution levels in Japan.

The only thing I can think of is the Japanese obsession with being clean or as you say, under reporting a la Iran.
 

sirloin

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I have asked around. The difference in beds pr. inhabitant, revolves around the way people are normally treated.
- In asia, as an example Singapore, the philiosophy is, that recovery is fully done in the hospital. Many beds.
- In northern europe, as an example Denmark, the philiosophy is, that recovery at home is faster (when well enough to do so..). Fewer beds.
- In the us? Since the healthcare system is structured around a large private sector, and payment by insurance, well.. Few beds.

In asia the SARS epidemic is very much a thing they have learned from. The testing done in Taiwan and Singapore, is an example of this - and they have set an example, that will hopefully make all of us be better prepared in the future.
The italian nightmare, is not so clean cut. While relatively well funded, there is a mix of private and public hospitals - and thus unclear directions. On top, a delayed reaction, likely due to not having similar experience as in asia with SARS.
 
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Kingstonian

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Might have to start playing a lot more golf to stave off boredom.

Provided they don’t shut the courses.

There are new behaviours now

Golf and On Course
1. Please do not go to Golf Club if you have had a sudden or continuous new cough, shortness of breath or a fever (a temperature of over 37.8). If you have the symptoms above you must self-isolate for 7 days.
2. Change your shoes in the carpark where practicable
3. Preferably keep your clubs in the car, or reduce your time in to a minimum anywhere
4. Keep a safe distance (2m) between yourself and your playing partners
5. Avoid touching the flag post
6. Do not rake bunkers, flatten the sand with your foot or the back of your clubs
7. Only touch your own equipment and do not pick up and throw your playing partner’s ball to them
8. Do not use the shoe air cleaner
9. Wash hands if you are coming off the course

Club House
1. Wash hands when you are entering the Club House
2. Use a paper towel for door handles
3. Stay a safe distance from other members and staff
4. Do not lean on the bar counter
5. Pay cash less
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Harvey Weinstein and Rand Paul in one day! 🥳
If I was Harvey Weinstein very worried now, he's got dead cert written all over him.

I like those mayors no BS, this a genuine time of national survival civil liberties have to be suspended for the benefit of everyone equally. Including the dickheads themselves.

According to my colleagues down there still loads not respecting the situation.

At least northern Italy is heavily polluted so people's immune systems and lungs were already compromised - Italy couldn't have been worse than China. Not sure about the pollution levels in Japan.
Parts of northern Italy are not that polluted outside of the cities and certainly not on the scale of China. This time of year from Milan across to Venice it's pretty grim. Cold fogs that linger forever.

- In northern europe, as an example Denmark, the philiosophy is, that recovery at home is faster (when well enough to do so..). Fewer beds.
Recovery at home because you'll get a super bug in hospital and you're already relatively immune from the bacteria in your own home.

The italian nightmare, is not so clean cut. While relatively well funded, there is a mix of private and public hospitals - and thus unclear directions. On top, a delayed reaction, likely due to not having similar experience as in asia with SARS.
The health services are set-up for the local conditions and people. In the era of globalization, if it continues, then the health providers of the west will need to accept that a different model is needed. The governments will need to plan ahead as well.

As an example, here in the Netherlands access to strong drugs and cures is carefully gate keeped as a normal northern European is relatively healthy with strong immunity. Out in the developing world that's not the case, so they can escalate, if they have the money, straight to the good stuff if they can afford it. I'm not talking about cancer drugs and the like, stuff that will cure a heavy cold or chesty cough almost overnight.
 

Scherensammler

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"The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus. "

"On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity - many had two or three,” he says.

This does not mean that Covid-19 did not contribute to a patient's death, rather it demonstrates that Italy's fatality toll has surged as a large proportion of patients have underlying health conditions. Experts have also warned against making direct comparisons between countries due to discrepancies in testing.

Martin McKee, professor of European public health at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, says that countries do not yet have a good indication of how many mild infections they have.

If further testing finds more asymptomatic cases spreading undetected, the mortality rate will drop."
 

formby001

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lel

Hopefully that won't end too horrible for the UK
Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you? What kind of person delights in the potential deaths of innocent people?

You genocidal tit.

Are the moderators on here going to let this stand?
 

Rambo

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Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you? What kind of person delights in the potential deaths of innocent people?

You genocidal tit.

Are the moderators on here going to let this stand?
What exactly is your issue with the post?
 

formby001

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What exactly is your issue with the post?
Really?

He starts the post with a lel (LOL),

Then ends it with a sarcastic comment.

Kindly explain to me why he finds the thought of the potential death of several thousand Britsh & foreigners who live in Britain humorous?

Its a disgraceful post.
 

Fwiffo

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"Mortality rate on average of up to 2%, heavily weight towards the elderly and immunocompromised: meaning up to 3m people. In the US about 3m/yr die mostly due to old age and disease, those two being highly correlated (as a percent very few from accidents). There will be significant overlap, so this does not mean 3m new deaths from the virus, it means elderly people dying sooner due to respiratory issues."
 

Fwiffo

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On the possibility of closing liquor stores here:

"'With respect to the LCBO and its operations, whether we care to admit it or not, there are many people in our community who have significant dependence issues with respect to alcohol,' de Villa said. 'I think we have to be very conscious of that fact and be aware that if that substance, that provision, is no longer available, that that would lead to pretty significant health consequences.'"

 

Pimpernel Smith

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This will be a reset and I'm not convinced it will all come back rather swiftly in the way it was before. This will be a lost year for many, school kids for one and older people kept apart from their families. Thankfully we have modern communication technology. Some people won't be coming back to the office. Did we really need them anyway? Then there will be fear as people come out of lock-down is it lurking out there? Holidays abroad, you can forget that this year. People will be quite rightly spooked and will be questions about strategic resources like medicine being outsourced to China. Already we've been asked by one organisation with 67% of their current work in China, to pivot back to the USA and help them here as priority.

There will be a demand for competency in government and politics. No one's going to be interested in some Mayor pontificating about ''Diversity is our strength'' ad infinitum. As somehow the invocation of this mantra post-modernist globalist voodoo alchemy and panacea for all ills in society. Socialism too, people will be toughened up to it's snake oil academics and untried politicians. Woke and cancel culture too, already seems so last decade my dear.

What about all those subsidies for offshore windfarms? You've just fired everything you've got to keep mass unemployment and depression at bay. You want further sacrifices to meet C02 and nitrogen targets? And what about the 51% of farms you want to get rid of? Where's St Greta when you don't need her. STFU and get out of here. Already happened.

2020 will be the year of the great reset.
 

The Shooman

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I had business to attend in the city and was shocked by the scenes. Normally the streets are packed with thousands of people, but today barely a person was around. I took some photos but are unable to download them.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Went to work at 6am yesterday and the roads were curiously busy. I assume stragglers to get themselves working from home. Get in early and set-up and get the hell out.

Surrounding our office block all the offices everywhere are empty. Zero, no one in there.

In our building the ladies on my floor who control the nurses in The Hague who are giving home visits and injections have to work in the office as they are classed as essential workers. And they work long hours in before 8am and often after 6pm. They're playing lots of Dutch camp cabaret music very loud to get themselves through this. I responded with Sacha Distel's Monsieur Cannibale. Went down a treat and everyone was dancing like nutters in the shared hallway areas.

Grace under pressure, nothing better.
 

Rambo

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Really?

He starts the post with a lel (LOL),

Then ends it with a sarcastic comment.

Kindly explain to me why he finds the thought of the potential death of several thousand Britsh & foreigners who live in Britain humorous?

Its a disgraceful post.
oh come down off of the ledge will you? i didn't see you bitching and moaning about the cheers when various politicians and other contemptible figures were being cheered towards death. so is it only bad when its brits and not when its yanks?
 

Rambo

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so now everyone from the wsj to the nyt to lloyd blankfein are floating the idea that we're just going to send everyone back to work that isn't old or sick and be damned with the consequences. if 2.5% of the people die then that apparently will not be as bad as the stock market going down.
 

Rambo

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#notdyingforwallstreet is literally trending on twitter now.
 

Fwiffo

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so now everyone from the wsj to the nyt to lloyd blankfein are floating the idea that we're just going to send everyone back to work that isn't old or sick and be damned with the consequences. if 2.5% of the people die then that apparently will not be as bad as the stock market going down.
No choice for me. Insurance is essential.
 

güero

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Really?

He starts the post with a lel (LOL),

Then ends it with a sarcastic comment.

Kindly explain to me why he finds the thought of the potential death of several thousand Britsh & foreigners who live in Britain humorous?

Its a disgraceful post.
No sarcasm involved. I‘ve repeatedly stated that I find it disgraceful how the UK people are being treated by their head clowns. It‘s nevertheless hilarious that Bergamo is in fact safer than pretty much any UK city.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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No sarcasm involved. I‘ve repeatedly stated that I find it disgraceful how the UK people are being treated by their head clowns. It‘s nevertheless hilarious that Bergamo is in fact safer than pretty much any UK city.
You know about what's going on in Bergamo? I do. They're dying in waves and not just old people. It's Mediëval plague there. Bergamo is a modern city by the way, similar infrastructure to the UK, including London,

The fact you find it ''hilarious'' say's all we need to know.
 

güero

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How is it not hilarious that when people have a choice between traveling to the center of a medieval plague and staying in West Bumblefuck, Lancashire, they choose the plague?
 
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