Coronavirus

Rambo

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78% developed heart issues. that is stunningly high. and in young people as well. this is going to fuck us up for a LONG time.
 

Dropbear

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The DoD recently extended their disqualification for any enlistees who have ever been infected. Too many health problems and too much liability. It is a serious virus that can damage the body far more than seasonal flu. We may end up with a stratified generation in the future - those who have had the virus and those who haven’t. The latter will have far more career opportunities available to them. And better chance of getting health insurance.
 

Rambo

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güero güero since you think the stats are ridiculous how about some first hand accounts instead

 

Fwiffo

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When do we get to the point where avoiding being infected means killing the infected?
 

güero

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güero güero since you think the stats are ridiculous how about some first hand accounts instead

I don't think the stats are ridiculous, but I do think the article is a deliberate misrepresentation of the situation specifically designed to frighten people.

The particular study is what it is, an isolated study. Especially myocardial inflammation is a very common effect of "the flu" as well, something like 40-50% iirc, yet all that's done about it (as far as I know) is telling people not to exercise when sick.

I also think that long-term effects of Corona infections might be serious and maybe even more serious that for other viral infections, but in general it doesn't seem unsual. Post-viral syndrome is so common, it even has a name.

In any case articles like this are the major reason for the societal paralysis with regard to dealing with Corona. It's embarassing and dangerous.

It has now been claimed by one prominent “expert” that without additional “preventive actions” there will be 50k daily new cases by the end of October (now something like 2k I think) which is THE SAME RIDICULOUS FORECAST that was made every other month since about March/April.
Imho it's the end of October now and we are at something like 11-12k daily. Failed by a factor of almost 5 AGAIN. Well it's probably better than failing by a factor of 20 or 50 or whatever the ridiculous "expert" estimates were earlier this year.
 

Fwiffo

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“‘Coronavirus, which is a devil, cannot survive in the body of Christ... It will burn instantly,’ Magufuli, a devout Christian, pronounced on 22 March from the altar of a church in Tanzania's capital, Dodoma.

He would later speak against social distancing and the wearing of masks, and questioned the efficacy of testing after sending various animals and fruit to be checked for the virus - he announced that a papaya, a quail and a goat had all tested positive. The president said he could not countenance closing down the economy, and excoriated neighbouring countries for doing so.”

Clearly the science is failing Tanzania.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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There was a scientist from the UK government's SAGE getting interviewed the other day in The Telegraph and when asked what is going to be the biggest problem this winter for extra mortalities and he replied ''Seasonal flu...''

Looking at the statistics in Europe while the infection rates are sky-rocketing, the mortality rates are well under control.

I've had the first colleague go down with it in Spain. He's off sick in isolation, but not needing hospitalization.

Some of the stuff that's going in the UK, particularly Wales and Scotland seems well over the top at this stage. Supermarkets not being able to sell anything other than essential items. Closing the border in case them dastardly English get in. Begging Westminster for more money to keep them in perpetual and endless lockdown until all risk of the virus is eliminated by vaccine.

Then you have Sadiq Khan, wanting London to be in severe lockdown, whilst his contemporary in Manchester is fighting to keep the city open.

When I was buying my watch today, I asked them how was the business and they said marginally down on normal, but not by much as many people who weren't going on holiday where using that money to buy watches.
 

Dropbear

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There are few different schools of thought on how bad this coming flu season will be in the northern hemisphere. It might be that the masking, physical distancing, reduced travel and other measures will severely limit flu spread as it did in the Southern Hemisphere. Additionally, demand for flu vaccine is higher than it has been in previous years - which is another positive.

On the other hand,Americans are dumb and ignore covid risks- 70,000 new cases a day! We may see hospitals overflowing with flu cases and coinfections to push excess death rates up higher than before.
 

fxh

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We have had extremely low flu and common cold figures (although clearly common cold figures are a professional guesstimate), attributed to our usual high rate of flu vaccine combined with distancing and masks. Makes sense.

Here we have free flu vaccine for over 60s(?), and people with vulnerable conditions, pretty much all health workers and a lot of workplaces also give free flu vaccine. If its a bad year there's also free boosters after 4 months or so if you want.
 

fxh

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There was a scientist from the UK government's SAGE getting interviewed the other day in The Telegraph and when asked what is going to be the biggest problem this winter for extra mortalities and he replied ''Seasonal flu...''

Looking at the statistics in Europe while the infection rates are sky-rocketing, the mortality rates are well under control.

I've had the first colleague go down with it in Spain. He's off sick in isolation, but not needing hospitalization.

Some of the stuff that's going in the UK, particularly Wales and Scotland seems well over the top at this stage. Supermarkets not being able to sell anything other than essential items. Closing the border in case them dastardly English get in. Begging Westminster for more money to keep them in perpetual and endless lockdown until all risk of the virus is eliminated by vaccine.

Then you have Sadiq Khan, wanting London to be in severe lockdown, whilst his contemporary in Manchester is fighting to keep the city open.

When I was buying my watch today, I asked them how was the business and they said marginally down on normal, but not by much as many people who weren't going on holiday where using that money to buy watches.
Mate - new cases in .NL are through the roof.

you got about 9,000 daily new cases - we have 24 and we have 33% more population
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Mate - new cases in .NL are through the roof.

you got about 9,000 daily new cases - we have 24 and we have 33% more population
Are they through the roof because of increased testing, or lack of social distancing?

For the first weeks of the pandemic you couldn't get tested and then only you medical worker and you couldn't get face masks. And you still struggle to get N95 masks. Everyone's walking around with ones that come in boxes that state they are non-medical, stop droplets, but they're not to N95 specifications.

The start of the pandemic coincided with the best spring they've had for half-a-century it was endless blue sky days. People took it all as a holiday and all the cycle lanes, parks, lakes and beach areas where jammed packed with people enjoying the weather and ''holiday''. Very little social distancing was going on.

Despite the government's insistence to work from home if you can, over the last 6 weeks the rush hour traffic is back to normal and there's a return to work. In the cafe near my office now back serving takeaways only, there's loads of people in there sitting together not social distancing.

My view is that it's not gone away and the increased testing is what is giving the spike. There may be reasons as to why this is i.e. lack of real social distancing, etc.
 

Dropbear

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Sewerage particle counts and test positivity rates both say community infection is growing exponentially in the Netherlands, and you pass that off on increased testing.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Sewerage particle counts and test positivity rates both say community infection is growing exponentially in the Netherlands, and you pass that off on increased testing.
No, I am saying that the virus never went away. It was chugging along in the background, almost unnoticed due to lack of testing with the exception of hospital cases and then there is over confidence that it's over and now there is a spike. But some of that spike is down to increased testing. You couldn't get tested unless you were a medical worker for quite some time.
 

fxh

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I cant BF looking up .nl - but our testing rates are around 17,000 a day in Melbourne - we were always doing around 7,000 a day - just in Melbourne = 5m popn - we are doing sewage testing too. esp in rural areas - if there a minute amount detected we swamp with testing.
 

fxh

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No, I am saying that the virus never went away. It was chugging along in the background, almost unnoticed due to lack of testing with the exception of hospital cases and then there is over confidence that it's over and now there is a spike. But some of that spike is down to increased testing. You couldn't get tested unless you were a medical worker for quite some time.
Yeah I suspect that the testing rates in a lot of places were too low and too focused on symptomatic ppl - chugging away is true. We are tackling that.
 

fxh

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mmh back at august 10 - or so - we were testing around 3 people per 1,000 and .nl was doing around 1 per 1,000. that was the take off point. Its different now we are lower but our cases now are about 2/5ths of SFA and we have NO C-19 cases in ICU
 

Fwiffo

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For the first weeks of the pandemic you couldn't get tested and then only you medical worker and you couldn't get face masks. And you still struggle to get N95 masks. Everyone's walking around with ones that come in boxes that state they are non-medical, stop droplets, but they're not to N95 specifications.
Those must be the K95 here because the Chinese manufacturer was called out on it by the government. Then after some media expose offered to replace them with proper ones at their cost. Not ever sure they did but who knows. The defective ones were held on to and then dumped on the market. Bloody good deal for these Chinese vendors. Send the virus over, sell you defective kit, take your money and their country is the first one on the mend vis-a-vis GDP.
 

Fwiffo

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I cant BF looking up .nl - but our testing rates are around 17,000 a day in Melbourne - we were always doing around 7,000 a day - just in Melbourne = 5m popn - we are doing sewage testing too. esp in rural areas - if there a minute amount detected we swamp with testing.
We have 14-14 1/2 million people in this province. We used to get close to 50,000 people wanting testing a day. Then they moved to appointment only and you can only test if you have symptoms so tests hovered in the 20,000s. Any time you see high 40,000s or a backlog of 90,000 you know the next day you're hitting all time highs - which for us is 900s. Haven't broke the 1,000 barrier yet.

If you test in the 20K range you usually pick up 700 or 800 infections so there is a correlation between tests and cases. But what's the point in testing more? Rapid tests, etc. All it results is more people being quarantined/locked down/isolated. It's like the concept of quarantine - if you have a few infected areas and lots of uninfected then it makes sense. There are only 5 counties without infections here. Containment has failed. Testing is for containing. There's no point in containing if the rate we're going in 2 years the vast majority of us will fall prey to it because no one knows how it is still transmitting.

How about some wonder drugs to treat it instead of banging our head on an immovable wall.
 

Fwiffo

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"Italy is shutting cinemas, swimming pools and gyms from Monday in a further attempt to curb the rapid rise in coronavirus infections.

Bars and restaurants will have to close by 18:00 but shops and the majority of businesses will remain operating."
 

Pimpernel Smith

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"Italy is shutting cinemas, swimming pools and gyms from Monday in a further attempt to curb the rapid rise in coronavirus infections.

Bars and restaurants will have to close by 18:00 but shops and the majority of businesses will remain operating."
Most of the restaurants in Italy don't open until 8pm and most people don't go out to eat to around 10pm.
 

fxh

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That sounds like Barcelona. To be honest I don't eat until 1930-2000 anyway but I'm in a minority here.
I am naturally a 7.30 - 8pm meal time or a bit later and I don't mind waiting if the roast needs another 30 mins or I'm busy but Ms family - well more her Dad - got really seriously anxious and angry if he waited much past 5.30- 6pm.
 

Journeyman

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"We're not going to control the pandemic," says White House Chief of Staff.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/25/white-house-chief-of-staff-controlpandemic-432236

Basically, the Trump administration realises that it has royally screwed the pooch on attempting to contain or control COVID-19 infections, and is now relying upon vaccinations and also upon health care that the majority of Americans can't afford or likely won't qualify to receive.
 

Fwiffo

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Does anyone have infections under control?
By my count it's only island nations that have walled themselves off (Taiwan, New Zealand) or countries whose numbers are suspiciously low given their population size (China).
 

fxh

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Well melb today no new cases. No c19 In icu. Rolling av new cases per day below 4 For last fortnight. All cases traced to source. Doesn’t mean there’s no cases sneaking around quietly waitimg but we now have crack teams to pounce.
 

sirloin

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Not under control here, but tightening over the last period to get it under. 1056 new cases today (0.018%).
New cases are weighted against the young.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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10,343 new cases here today with 26 deaths.

Pretty much everyone in face masks now. 20 people at the missus's work have presently got it. They're ordered back in working in the bunkers and offices.
 

Journeyman

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I need a vaccine every 6 to 12 months? A new gold mine industry is born.
In pharmaceutical terms, vaccines are not very profitable. Certainly, they may be widely administered, but they're low-priced and typically only administered once per year, if that.

Pharmaceutical companies want people to take medicine daily, and to take that medicine for years. That is why pharma companies plough many, many millions into developing drugs like statins, and then spend more money on wining and dining doctors so as to persuade them to prescribe their new wonder drugs. That's the gold mine industry.

I'm not saying that vaccines aren't profitable - but it's not the preferred business model of the pharmaceutical industry. Any conspiracy theorists who think that COVID-19 is a plot by "big pharma" to make massive profits from a vaccine are simply wrong.
 

güero

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I’m amazed that we still have to explain this stuff to people:

That might be because constant repetition does not magically make it any more reasonable or acceptable.

Fortunately, we can disregard all the misrepresentations, misleading statements and all the (medical) facts that conveniently have been left out of this article. We can do so because the article correctly states that "an ethical path" is needed. Articles like this do not even remotely try to tackle the ethical question and in fact prevent a useful discussion of such question.

This type of thinking is just the mainstream version of Cuckley's bare-chested leather jacket dude, it's just as useless.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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In pharmaceutical terms, vaccines are not very profitable. Certainly, they may be widely administered, but they're low-priced and typically only administered once per year, if that.

Pharmaceutical companies want people to take medicine daily, and to take that medicine for years. That is why pharma companies plough many, many millions into developing drugs like statins, and then spend more money on wining and dining doctors so as to persuade them to prescribe their new wonder drugs. That's the gold mine industry.
According to two people I was speaking to last Christmas in pharmaceutical sales in the UK, all that wining and dining of doctors and practice managers has all gone forbidden. Like many other sectors, it's now seen as a form of bribery unless you're spending less than 25 quid on the evening's entertainment.

That might be because constant repetition does not magically make it any more reasonable or acceptable.

Fortunately, we can disregard all the misrepresentations, misleading statements and all the (medical) facts that conveniently have been left out of this article. We can do so because the article correctly states that "an ethical path" is needed. Articles like this do not even remotely try to tackle the ethical question and in fact prevent a useful discussion of such question.

This type of thinking is just the mainstream version of Cuckley's bare-chested leather jacket dude, it's just as useless.
Did you randomly throw that last paragraph in to make you look clever?
 

Dropbear

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This type of thinking is just the mainstream version of Cuckley's bare-chested leather jacket dude, it's just as useless.
But these funny little conspiracy theories on mainstream public health and medicine you are pushing are the perfect parallel to Pimp’s incel political podcasts.
 
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