Coronavirus

Pimpernel Smith

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6,751
3 million dead.
That figure is frightening, but without context it's just another stage instruction in the theatre of fear we find ourselves in e.g. how many people die globally of pneumonia a year? I don't know, but I wager it's more than 3 million. Of that 3 million how many would have likely died from pneumonia instead of Covid?

SAGE in the UK say it's 3 times worse than seasonal flu which makes the mortality rate well under 0.5%, but with hospital cases at 5% which is higher. Broken down by age groups, unlike seasonal flu, it's the aged who suffer most with the average age of death from Covid in the UK at 82, which is a year longer than the average lifespan. They're also revising the deaths by a quarter as the 28 day rule is clearly ridiculous. Then they tell us 10% of people are immune already and 1 in 3 cases are asymptomatic.

In my lifetime, I've never known anyone personally who died of the flu. The closest was one of the wife's friend's boyfriend who was 45 and died in the late 1990s.

As regards Covid: in my family, circle of friends and associates, extended work organisation, several people have now had Covid, thankfully, no one has died or been in an ICU. Anecdotally, even 3 times worse then seasonally flu, it's still statistically unlikely to impact you personally at the level of I know several people who have died from it.

We need a way out of this ratcheting up the fear.
 

belinmad

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324
As regards Covid: in my family, circle of friends and associates, extended work organisation, several people have now had Covid, thankfully, no one has died or been in an ICU. Anecdotally, even 3 times worse then seasonally flu, it's still statistically unlikely to impact you personally at the level of I know several people who have died from it.

you go from personal anecdotal references to “statistically unlikely”. I am very glad and happy for you that no one around you had a serious case or died from it. I unfortunately have experienced the opposite end of this anecdotal phenomenon - several people in my circle, the woman who took care of my kids when they were growing up and her daughter, parents of close friends, all died from covid complications, and my best friend was in the ICU for 2 weeks, completely isolated from his wife and kids.

It’s fine if you are a pandemic denier, if your right to not wear a mask is more important than other people’s lives. Just don’t use your anecdotal nonsense to make claims that are just disrespectful to the lives lost and the suffering experienced.

We need a way out of fear, we also need to acknowledge that this is not just “a bad flu”, and social distancing and protection impositions, while inconvenient, protect us from collapsing health care systems, and protect the weak ones in our society.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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6,751
It’s fine if you are a pandemic denier, if your right to not wear a mask is more important than other people’s lives. Just don’t use your anecdotal nonsense to make claims that are just disrespectful to the lives lost and the suffering experienced.

We need a way out of fear, we also need to acknowledge that this is not just “a bad flu”, and social distancing and protection impositions, while inconvenient, protect us from collapsing health care systems, and protect the weak ones in our society.
I am not a pandemic denier and I wear the mask - even though at the beginning of the pandemic, including the eminent Dr Fauci told us mask wearing was a waste of time - but I am not convinced that full lockdowns, curfews and the loss of social and work lives are justified by the death rate, particularly as it's weighted towards the very old.

The continual ratcheting up fear, I find distasteful.
 

Arnathor

The Hamiltonian Hung Like a Horse
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I am not a pandemic denier and I wear the mask - even though at the beginning of the pandemic, including the eminent Dr Fauci told us mask wearing was a waste of time - but I am not convinced that full lockdowns, curfews and the loss of social and work lives are justified by the death rate, particularly as it's weighted towards the very old.

The continual ratcheting up fear, I find distasteful.
Very boarish of him to equate what you said with holocaust denialism. It is the ultimate SJW move and a reprehensible one at that.
 

Arnathor

The Hamiltonian Hung Like a Horse
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so i'm sure this will lead to you wanting to nationalize the pharmaceutical companies so that we can mass produce vaccines for next to nothing?
This definitely won't lead to another generation of Kulaks.
 

Dropbear

Member in Good Standing
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5,077
We are starting to hit a vaccine hesitancy wall with only about a quarter of the population vaccinated. I’ve shut down a few big rural hubs because they weren’t getting enough people through. We may demobilise before summer and let the local pharmacies take care of the general population while we keep a few strike teams going for vulnerable and hard to reach populations.

We may just leave it to Darwin to deal with the conspiracy theorists and science skeptics.
 
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güero

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827
and social distancing and protection impositions, while inconvenient, protect us from collapsing health care systems, and protect the weak ones in our society.
Obviously rubbish, as e.g. evidenced by the deaths of the people you know. The weak ones are by far hit the hardest and this could have been mitigated.
 

Fwiffo

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10,439
We are starting to hit a vaccine hesitancy wall with only about a quad of the population vaccinated. I’ve shut down a few big rural hubs because they weren’t getting enough people through. We may demobilise before summer and let the local pharmacies take care of the general population while we keep a few strike teams going for vulnerable and hard to reach populations.

We may just leave it to Darwin to deal with the conspiracy theorists and science skeptics.

So I still have some time to get down there. We only start 55 and below here for non essential workers in July.

And then I have a 4 month gap till my second shot. Reckon I'll get full immunity in January before I need to get Pfizer2. Moderna2. Or whatever brand2.
 

Fwiffo

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Pimpernel Smith

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6,751
Your continued disrespect for hard science and lost lives, I find distasteful.
The science is very clear: this not the plague or Black Death.
We are starting to hit a vaccine hesitancy wall with only about a quarter of the population vaccinated. I’ve shut down a few big rural hubs because they weren’t getting enough people through. We may demobilise before summer and let the local pharmacies take care of the general population while we keep a few strike teams going for vulnerable and hard to reach populations.

We may just leave it to Darwin to deal with the conspiracy theorists and science skeptics.
One of the kids godparents isn't getting it. They live in Zeeland and have retired to a life of painting. In fact he makes more money now that he ever did. Nevertheless, he isn't getting it despite being over 70. He is in good shape mind you. I suppose if you live far from the madding crowd you can take the risk.
So I still have some time to get down there. We only start 55 and below here for non essential workers in July.

And then I have a 4 month gap till my second shot. Reckon I'll get full immunity in January before I need to get Pfizer2. Moderna2. Or whatever brand2.
I'm working on the position that mainland Europe's going nowhere this year. I expect my first jab in September.
 

Dropbear

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5,077
Aren't you in the state that has relaxed all restrictions?

Exactly. Bunch of fucking whiners. Instead of knuckling down and beating this thing so we can move on, they are going to drag it out for years with more ‘it’s like the flu’/mah freedums/ conspiracy bullshit.

I want to get home and spend time with my family instead of spending every fucking day keeping fucktards safe from something they are too dumb to understand
 

Pimpernel Smith

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6,751
‘it’s like the flu’/mah freedums/ conspiracy bullshit.
Appreciate your professional interest in all of this, but the deus ex machina get-out-of-lockdown moment is here with the vaccines.

Our freedom is not conspiracy bullshit, it has been hard fought and won, and we're not giving it up for Covid-19 or the next CNN endorsed theatre of fear: The Climate Emergency. We all bought into the lockdowns and loss of liberties, but the facts are straight: never has so much been sacrificed for so few.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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6,751
i have to say this is especially condescending, even from you. Professional "interest"???
Not really, this stuff is Dropbear's career and specialisation, so he's in the thick of it. It's his profession and I wouldn't challenge him at the tactical level. But at a strategic level there is no longer a rational argument for keeping society closed after vaccination. I get a disturbing feeling in my gut when these specialists tell us that the restrictions are going to remain and we will be wearing masks for the next several years and walking around in fear of getting too close to our neighbours.
 

Fwiffo

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The absolute shambles of vaccine distribution in Canada's largest province and city

"Here's a look at how complex the situation is:
  • If you're 60-plus, you can book at a mass vaccination site or pharmacy. This should be relatively straightforward.
  • If you're 55-plus, you can book through a pharmacy if there is one offering vaccines nearby. This can be trickier in many areas.
  • If you're 50-plus in a COVID-19 hot spot — and you'll have to search to figure out if your postal code is in fact a hot spot — you can go to a mass vaccination site.
  • Those under 50 in hot spots can now qualify, too, but you can't book through the provincial system. Instead, you'll have to search for a mobile or pop-up clinic. Others under 50 who are eligible in Phase 2 of the vaccine rollout — such as education workers or others deemed a priority — can book but will also need to bring paperwork. " -- also known as you have to go actually go into your employer's office and get proof of employment

Just to make it even more complicated, there are two pharmacy chains and they have their own websites and phone numbers. Every county or region or hospital network has their own website and phone number or if they don't, they use the provincial one.

These mobile or pop up clinics are tied to specific vaccine makers. If we run out of Moderna and you subscribed to a place that only inoculates Moderna that site shuts down and all your appointments are cancelled so you have to go queue through some other avenue that is open to you.

Why on God's green earth you make the under 50s queue in person - which last weekend started at 5am up to 1000+ people is beyond me. The contractor who programmed the website disappeared.

"Because of the complex situation, Toronto pharmacist Kyro Maseh told CBC News he has 160 doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine that expire at the end of May that he hasn't been able to administer."

Added complexity in that we are the only country on this planet that says 4 months or 16 weeks or 100+ days is okay between first and second shot. For mass vaccination sites run by the government you are automatically scheduled for an appointment 4 months out. For pharmacies you get a verbal IOU without a definite appointment.
 

güero

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827
Not really, this stuff is Dropbear's career and specialisation, so he's in the thick of it.
That is the issue with many ditch diggers, after a while they have dug so deep they can't look out of their hole anymore. I actually appreciate the audacity of first failing miserably in protecting the weak and vulnerable and then turning around and just blaming the people.
 

Dropbear

Member in Good Standing
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5,077
Appreciate your professional interest in all of this, but the deus ex machina get-out-of-lockdown moment is here with the vaccines.

Our freedom is not conspiracy bullshit, it has been hard fought and won, and we're not giving it up for Covid-19 or the next CNN endorsed theatre of fear: The Climate Emergency. We all bought into the lockdowns and loss of liberties, but the facts are straight: never has so much been sacrificed for so few.
And yet half the country refuses to take the vaccine because of some of this bullshit conspiracy or to wear a fucking mask and stay six feet away from people until they can get vaccinated. Seriously, I think you just want to drag this on into the next decade.
 

fxh

OG Party Suit Wearer
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The state of affairs down under.
It’s a fuckup. Federal Gov over promised needlessly. Then there was overseas supply problems. Plus the federal government doesn’t know how to run services. They don’t run any. They do fund GPs through Medicare but know fuck all about running stuff. GPs can’t do mass vax which is needed to do big numbers quickly. Feds didn’t do a deal with states to do mass vax. Trying to pay states about 30% of price they pay GPs. Being over cautious about risks with clots and astra Zeneca.

It’s not a huge crisis as we have no community transmission in a country of 25million. So the urgency isn’t the same as say UK and USA.
 
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