Coronavirus

formby002

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Gorra admire the Aussies:

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Pimpernel Smith

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It’s down to semantics now, but you are mostly confusing surge capacity with overwhelming now.

As you say it's all about semantics, sometimes there's a difference between the common tongue and the specialist use of words.

Overwhelmed is akin to being overrun and in disarray, chaos and panic, completely different to a tactical withdraw to give time to regroup, buy time and come up with a plan and strategy. Also the NHS have over used ''overwhelmed'' previously and it's a bit yawn here we go again, like last winter.

The response in the UK, as that link posted gives evidence for, like the rest of northern Europe was akin to a measured and controlled withdrawal to buy time to get procurement and tactical operations in place. And the the traction was there to deliver, at the expense of the other services, but the ability of professionals to deliver kicked-in.

I don't see any evidence, official data, MSM news and also anecdotal other than on this website, that people were turned away from being treated or denied ICU beds in the UK, or here in the Netherlands.


Pimpernel Smith Pimpernel Smith
As you keep on reminding us, the health care system in the USA is fucked-up and based on that it must be. In places like the UK Covid is down to 42nd place as the cause of death.

Clearly, the response in the USA has been poor and continues to be so.
 

Rambo

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Dropbear

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We never really got to see how masks on elementary kids actually played out in schools. Get ready for that disaster to unfold.

I think we got some good data sets and a few papers already published that demonstrated effectiveness and limitations.
 

Rambo

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I think we got some good data sets and a few papers already published that demonstrated effectiveness and limitations.
i meant less in the way covid spreads and more in the way of trying to get a bunch of 6 year olds to keep masks on all day
 

Rambo

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very interesting thread on britain's continued mishandling of the pandemic. worth a read for you brits

 

Fwiffo

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"Researchers from the US-based Center for Global Development used three different data sources to estimate India's excess all-cause mortality during the pandemic until 21 June.

They extrapolated death registrations from seven states, accounting for half of India's population. India conducts yearly mortality surveys but has only published numbers up to 2019.

Second, the researchers applied international estimates of age-specific infection fatality rates - the number of people that die from the virus - to data from two countrywide antibody tests, also called sero surveys.

Third, they looked at India's consumer survey of 868,000 individuals across 177,000 households which also records whether any member of the family had died in the past four months.

Taken together, the researchers found that excess deaths were estimated to be in the range of 3.4 million to 4.7 million - about 10 times higher than India's official Covid-19 death toll."

Maybe they can look at China's ridiculously low numbers compared to their population size.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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"Researchers from the US-based Center for Global Development used three different data sources to estimate India's excess all-cause mortality during the pandemic until 21 June.

They extrapolated death registrations from seven states, accounting for half of India's population. India conducts yearly mortality surveys but has only published numbers up to 2019.

Second, the researchers applied international estimates of age-specific infection fatality rates - the number of people that die from the virus - to data from two countrywide antibody tests, also called sero surveys.

Third, they looked at India's consumer survey of 868,000 individuals across 177,000 households which also records whether any member of the family had died in the past four months.

Taken together, the researchers found that excess deaths were estimated to be in the range of 3.4 million to 4.7 million - about 10 times higher than India's official Covid-19 death toll."

Maybe they can look at China's ridiculously low numbers compared to their population size.
That's a dreadful piece, so very typical of the BBC house style of instilling fear via disinformation i.e. ''Although it is difficult to say...India has officially recorded more than 414,000 Covid-19 deaths so far...They extrapolated death registrations from seven states...the researchers applied international estimates of age-specific infection fatality rates...they looked at India's consumer survey of 868,000 individuals...Not all these deaths were caused by Covid-19...Although data on how many people died in the pandemic was patchy...to get a ballpark estimate of deaths.''

So they've applied a rule of thumb worst case guestimate with very little to do with official recorded deaths of 414,000. In other words they've projected a position that may, or may not be based on evidence, gathered from an unsound model, may be just bollocks.
 

Dropbear

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To be a member of the Trump Magadeath cult these days is to sign up to be the medical equivalent of a suicide bomber.

 

Fwiffo

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To be a member of the Trump Magadeath cult these days is to sign up to be the medical equivalent of a suicide bomber.

But the fearless leader is vaccinated.
 

Rambo

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Markets Plunge on Monday on Growing Reports of Fully Vaccinated People Getting Delta Strain of COVID-19

By Pam Martens and Russ Martens: July 20, 2021 ~
Coronavirus COVID-19 Yesterday, the Dow Jones Industrial Average fell 725.8 points out of fear that there will be renewed business restrictions to deal with spiking COVID cases in all 50 states in the U.S.
On July 8 the Food and Drug Administration and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention jointly released an unequivocal statement on the COVID-19 vaccines that are in use in the United States. The statement read in part:
“People who are fully vaccinated are protected from severe disease and death, including from the variants currently circulating in the country such as Delta. People who are not vaccinated remain at risk. Virtually all COVID-19 hospitalizations and deaths are among those who are unvaccinated.”​
That statement is now coming under growing scrutiny as evidence mounts of fully vaccinated Americans getting COVID-19, with hundreds ending up in the hospital. (An individual is considered “fully vaccinated” two weeks after receiving the second dose of either the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna vaccine, or two weeks after receiving the single-dose Johnson & Johnson vaccine.)
The largest challenge to the unequivocal statement from the FDA and CDC came on July 5 from the Israel Ministry of Health. The Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was used in Israel. It was also one of the vaccines used widely in the U.S. The Israel Ministry of Health said this about that vaccine:
“From the epidemiological analysis by public health services in the Ministry of Health, it is evident that since June 6th there was marked decline in the effectiveness of the vaccine in preventing infection (64%) and symptomatic illness (64%). This decline has been observed simultaneously with the spread of the Delta variant in Israel.​
“Nevertheless, the vaccine maintains an effectiveness rate of about 93% in preventing serious illness and hospitalization cases.”​
The Israel study suggests that persons who were fully vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine still have a 36 percent chance of getting COVID and a 7 percent chance of serious illness or hospitalization.
Unfortunately, statistics from some U.S. states suggest a far more serious outcome. The U.S. is calling cases where fully vaccinated persons contract the virus “VB” cases or “Vaccine Breakthroughs.”
On July 19, NBC News reported that “151 people in Illinois have died due to COVID-19 or complications after being fully vaccinated. That figure equates to 2.2% of COVID-19 deaths in the state since Jan. 1, officials said. At least 563 fully vaccinated people have been hospitalized in Illinois,” according to the Illinois Department of Public Health.
According to a report from the Department of Health and Social Services in Alaska, from February 1 to June 30, 2021, they classified 656 COVID cases as VB cases. The report notes that “Seventeen persons with VB infections were hospitalized and two died (both had substantial comorbidities).” Seventeen hospitalizations out of 656 VB cases represents 2.5 percent.
Another troubling report was released yesterday by Kentucky’s Lexington-Fayette County Health Department. According to an NBC News affiliate, that Health Department reported “a growing number of ‘breakthrough’ COVID-19 cases, which are positive cases found in people who are fully vaccinated. The health department said about 20-25% of new cases are considered breakthrough.”
Those are deeply troubling statistics for vaccines that were originally promoted in the U.S. as being more than 90 percent effective.
Last Friday, the Salt Lake Tribune in Utah reported these troubling statistics:
“Breakthrough cases are up in a big way in Utah. Cases among vaccinated people are still much less common than those among unvaccinated people, but both are growing, due to the Delta variant and its increased level of contagiousness.​
“Basically, we’re seeing between 50 and 100 cases per day among the vaccinated, and 300 to 600 cases per day among the unvaccinated.”​
The stock market had factored in a return to normal – with “normal” being no new COVID cases among the fully vaccinated or, at least, an infinitesimal amount. Clearly, 50 to 100 new cases a day among the vaccinated in just one state is not the return to normal the stock market was hoping for, nor is it the outcome that millions of Americans were hoping for.
On July 13, a CBS news local affiliate station reported that in Provincetown, Massachusetts, “entire homes of visitors over the Fourth have tested positive, despite being fully vaccinated.”
The effectiveness of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine is also coming under scrutiny. Yankee players and staff were vaccinated with the J&J vaccine in early April. On May 13, the MLB announced that a Yankee player, three coaches and four members of the travelling staff (all fully vaccinated) had tested positive for COVID-19.
Just last Thursday evening, July 15, the Yankees had to cancel a game with the Boston Red Sox when six Yankee players tested positive for COVID-19. ESPN reported that “the majority had received a COVID-19 vaccine and were asymptomatic.”
The spike in COVID cases in Los Angeles has reached the point that the county has reinstated its indoor mask policy – including for those who are fully vaccinated.
Given how very little is known about the Delta variant at this point in time, wearing a quality mask in indoor settings, and avoiding crowded social gatherings, would seem to be the responsible thing to do, for both yourself and others.
The American Academy of Pediatrics appears to agree. It is recommending that “All students older than 2 years and all school staff should wear face masks at school (unless medical or developmental conditions prohibit use).”
 

Rambo

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Pimpernel Smith

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Fwiffo

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"If the government has its way, in a few short weeks, you won't be able to sit down for a coffee at a Paris café - or board a train - without proof that you're Covid-free, vaccinated or immune.

This so-called Health Pass is the government's answer to infection rates that are rising faster than France has ever seen in this pandemic.

Already, from today, there'll be no routine access to cinemas, theatres, museums - no trips to Disneyland Paris - without it.

But it's the plan to extend that restriction to everyday public places - cafes, shopping centres and public transport - that's causing the biggest backlash."

As a consolation there will be a cafe reserved for dirty unvaccinated people, run by unvaccinated people, and taxed more because the state needs to reserve an ICU bed and ventilator for them.
 

Dropbear

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0DE2A850-041B-4B9D-B3EA-CFBBA5EF87D5.jpeg


That hospitalisation curve is and positivity rate are both worrisome.

Still only at about 52% of 12 and ups vaccinated, though we have plenty vaccine going to waste.
 

Fwiffo

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View attachment 39989

That hospitalisation curve is and positivity rate are both worrisome.

Still only at about 52% of 12 and ups vaccinated, though we have plenty vaccine going to waste.
I can't find the latest graph on BBC but you're doing better than them if that is any consolation.

That said, isn't there a raging market for them in Mexico?
 

Rambo

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talking about australia fxh fxh
 

fxh

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talking about australia fxh fxh
Never heard of Ian Welsh - but we have the advantage of an island a long way from most places - by most peoples standards - not by our standards - ( I once flew back from Beijing one Thursday night arrived in Melb at 7am - went to Chinese embassy for visa and all day workshop for a work contract and then sleep at home overnight and back to Beijing by Sat night) but we have stuffed up quarantine - due to the complexities of our federal system and to be slightly fair - we are learning more about transmission each week/month .

WE should have had proper isolated well ventilated quarantine run by the Feds but the feds are useless.

If we had had proper isolated quarantine and a fast tracked vaccination system we would have been very ok.

Of course hindsight is a wonderful thing
 
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