Discussions on Ivy

Sammy Ambrose

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Shirt collars. Do you have a preference?

Since the age of about 14 I have had s preference for button down collared shirts. I feel they component my face and body shape and look good with or without ties. I do have many non- button down, but I feel something is not quite right if I wear them.

What about other posters? Are you fans of the button-down?
One of the key talking points in relation to button down shirts is collar roll , and that in many of those produced today the roll is non-existent.

In my humble opinion, having a roll is more critical when the shirt is worn without a tie. With a tie too big a roll draws attention away from other aspects of the outfit and the overall look.

Pocket parrots can do the same thing. The tie ought to be a man's bit of decoration and not a pocket hanky.
 

doghouse

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One of the key talking points in relation to button down shirts is collar roll , and that in many of those produced today the roll is non-existent.

In my humble opinion, having a roll is more critical when the shirt is worn without a tie. With a tie too big a roll draws attention away from other aspects of the outfit and the overall look.

Pocket parrots can do the same thing. The tie ought to be a man's bit of decoration and not a pocket hanky.

This is all quite spot on.
 

Sammy Ambrose

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Without generally, but I can always go for a OCBD and knit tie look
One nice thing about a tie with a button down is that the collar effectively cradles the knot of the tie and create a more pleasing picture than a non-button down collar does. A spread collar in particular presents the tie knot as a separate entity. Without a pullover or a jacket, and when worn with just a shirt , this is not so obvious since then the eyes are drawn to the tie's entirety and not merely its knot.
 
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Streetlight

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Okay, Streetlight. So why did you stop wearing OCBDs and why the possible return?
In both cases just for a change, I would never wear with a tie though. I've been in John Simon's shop a couple of times and some did catch my eye. My current favourite shirts are oxford cloth non-button downs, great texture, so I'm halfway there.
 

Sammy Ambrose

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In both cases just for a change, I would never wear with a tie though. I've been in John Simon's shop a couple of times and some did catch my eye. My current favourite shirts are oxford cloth non-button downs, great texture, so I'm halfway there.I
As I argue in the post above this one, a button down with the right tie can produce a visual work of art. But we also need to consider face shape. I think a button down can slim down a full face and appear to reduce shoulder width. A spread collar has the opposite effect.
 
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doghouse

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It really comes down to matching face shape, tie knot/material and collar spread
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Shirt collars. Do you have a preference?

Since the age of about 14 I have had a preference for button down collared shirts. I feel they compliment my face and body shape and look good with or without ties. I do have many non- button down, but I feel something is not quite right if I wear them.

What about other posters? Are you fans of the button-down?
Think spread, cut-away, tennis, etc, are best with ties, or with a blazer. A T&A collar looks particularly good in these cases. But take away the tie and/or blazer...

For button-downs, who's left? Brooks Brothers dead, Kamukura never rated, John Simons great roll but is sleeve length still an issue(?), J.Press hmm, Mercer & Sons and down to select RL offerings e.g. the Purple Label button-downs I got at christmas which have a great roll and good with tie or sans tie.
 

doghouse

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Well Kamakura are definitely decent. But O'Connell and Press still offer good house label OCBD
 

ballmouse

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No button down for me. But I've been told my shirt collar is essentially a button down collar without the buttons.
 

Sammy Ambrose

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For those too lazy to click.
SmartSelectImage_2022-06-19-17-04-04.png
 

Streetlight

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Something different yet similar, and not far from John Simon's

 

Sammy Ambrose

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These Andover Shop Khakis are being advertised and discussed on Ivy Style. They are $235. For me that's a lot too pricey. Perhaps FXH could pull the trigger on those.

 

Sammy Ambrose

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1,095
These Andover Shop Khakis are being advertised and discussed on Ivy Style. They are $235. For me that's a lot too pricey. Perhaps FXH could pull the trigger on those.

This is what the manufacturer is saying regarding the khakis:

"
Hi, I am one of the co-founders of LawrenceTrousers. We are appreciative and humbled that our khakis made such a strong impression. It was a proud moment reading to our hard-working craftspersons, the admiration 0f their work.

We understand that the price point is an obstacle but please keep in mind that achieving this quality requires over 76+ process steps after cutting. In addition, the fabric chosen is of superior quality and weight. 90% of our sewers are former Southwick/Brooks Brothers staff and their years in premium garment manufacturing are in our organizational DNA."
 
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On the Ivy Style site a poster claims that Ivy style of dressing 'matches a mindset '.

'Wonderful photos indeed. Classic style, classic dignified thinking.( Ivy Style )is a style that matches a mindset."

To me, although that sounds possibly over the top somewhat, unless we are simply followers of current fashion, the fact that we choose a certain style of shoe, shirt, suit and so on must indicate that we are thinking consciously or unconsciously about the impact the clothes will have on us and on others. But is this of any real significance.
Of course it is well known to those who have made a study of these things that the very act of putting on Ivy clothing imbues the wearer with knightly qualities, of honour, decency, piousness and thriftiness (apart from when you are spending large amount in J Press and charging it to Pop’s account) … or so I’ve been told on Ivy Style.
 

Sammy Ambrose

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the very act of putting on Ivy clothing imbues the wearer with knightly qualities, of honour, decency, piousness and thriftiness.
Although you intend this as sarcasm, is it possible to discount the effect that matter has on mind?

Every choice we make is the result of a dynamic dialectical interaction between mind and matter. And both will be altered by that interaction although the extent of the change may not be immediately observable.

Given this , crude statements such as 'they are just clothes ' are ultimately false. Nothing is ever 'just' anything, maybe not even nothingness itself.
 
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Sammy Ambrose

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Nothing exists until it is observed...

Are we not knights of the realm in style?
The previously invisible black holes in space can now be observed. However, they had an existence prior to this.

I don't know about you ,Mr Smith, but I am concerned with not wincing when I observe myself, as I am afraid I do when I observe the mass of visual pollution around me, but I have no wish to rule in terms of style. I will leave that to the Big Daddies.

Of course, knights did not rule, but kept order, so if we can forget the knight's sword and its literal use, and view it merely as influence, then knights we may indeed be.
 
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Are we not knights of the realm in style?
How you are dressed definitely has an effect on others, you get treated differently when you wear a suit and your interest in clothes can rub off on people you mix with. But putting on nice clothes doesn’t make you a decent, honourable gentleman, as we know some the dirtiest thieves and double dealers out there wear suits, or did before business casual came in.
 

Sammy Ambrose

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How you are dressed definitely has an effect on others, you get treated differently when you wear a suit and your interest in clothes can rub off on people you mix with. But putting on nice clothes doesn’t make you a decent, honourable gentleman, as we know some the dirtiest thieves and double dealers out there wear suits, or did before business casual came in.
And we mustn't forget that the knights of the realm were unavoidably dirty dealers as were ( and still are sometimes) their royal bosses.
 

doghouse

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Although you intend this is sarcasm, is it possible to discount the effect that matter has on mind?

Every choice we make is the result of a dynamic dialectical interaction between mind and matter. And both will be altered by that interaction although the extent of the change may not be immediately observable.

Given this , crude statements such as 'they are just clothes ' are ultimately false. Nothing is ever 'just' anything, maybe not even nothingness itself.

The dialectic has entered the chat!
 

Sammy Ambrose

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1,095
Something different yet similar, and not far from John Simon's

I've just had a more detailed look at the products. I'm not in the market for clothes at the moment.
The shirts look good, but I don't think I could ever pay the advertised price of £150 for one. A few years ago I bought 30 Pierre Cardin, Ted Lapidus and Verri from Dubai ( A Syrian company called Paris Group have or had bought the licence to manufacture and sell under those brand names.) In a sale I paid £317 for those 30 shirts. They are of course made in China and they don't all have pearl buttons.

Now, setting aside Shooey's injunction to buy 'local is there any way that a single shirt at £150 can compete with 30 at £317?

If I have time, I'll take some pics of mine. For now here is the Anglo Italian one.

https://angloitalian.com/collections/shirting/products/ocbd-shirt-blue-oxford-1
SmartSelectImage_2022-06-25-15-59-51.png
 
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