Everything you need to know about trousers.

Betelgeuse

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Hi everyone.

This thread is intended as a guide for all kind of trousers, but I will not giving them cause I don't know, but I will like to know.

So I want to update my wardrobe, usually I only had suits, but now I've aquired a bunch of SC's with different kind of fabrics and now I need a bunch of trousers to properly use them. I thought all of them have to be wool, lighter fabrics for spring/summer heavier fabrics (like flannel) for autum/winter.

But there are a lot of other options like linen and cotton. I was familiar with linen but with cotton, not at all. And found out about this ones called "Chinos". I tried to Google that and well you must know that "Chino" in Spanish is the way you refer to Chinese people so I got nothing about torusers and I got a lot of info about China and a band name called Chino and Nacho. :wait-23:

I'm particularly interested on these Chino pants and especially with what would be convinient to wear them.

So any knowledge you have on trousers, please put it in here.

Thank you in advance!
 

Zé Ferreira

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Amen to Thread Concept.

I entered #menswear as a denim fanatic. Owned far too many pairs. Over the last year, I've almost completely moved away from denim and am now wearing real pants. So grateful to be doing so. Don't get me wrong, b/c denim still has its place, but true trousers are just so much more versatile and fun. You're not just limited to "blue."

Betelgeuse, "Chinos" traditionally refer to a basic cotton pant. They're not a 5-pocket design, like denim; they're also often referred to as "khakis" - referring to the most common color. Chino is the correct term. Below is your basic chino - two side pockets, two in the rear. Usually cotton twill (from whence it derives its name)

Developed in the mid-19th century for British and French military uniforms, it has since migrated into civilian wear. Trousers of such a fabric gained popularity in the U.S. when Spanish-American War veterans returned from the Philippines with their twill military trousers.

First designed to be used in the military and then taken up by civilians, chino fabric was originally made to be simple, hard-wearing and comfortable for soldiers to wear; the use of natural earth-tone colors also began the move towards camouflage, instead of the brightly colored tunics used prior. The British and then American armies started wearing it as standard during the latter half of the 1800s.[2]


Chinos are an all-purpose pant; they bridge a gap into MCCasual that denim frequently doesn't, while still allowing to be dressed down. They're essentially a blank canvas - the blue OCBD of pants.
 

Betelgeuse

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Those look very nice. What is OCBD, always read it, but don't know what it is.
 

Betelgeuse

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Those are nice, jrd! Problem is that the 32 waist have 12.5" in the thigh, may not fit me. :(
 

Betelgeuse

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If you're looking for slimmer cut, HY also has a "Made in Italy" version with a trimmer thigh. Look around the site, some are Italy, some are USA (bigger)
I would like a fuller cut, 12.5" would leave 1" inch extra for m thighs. :)
 

Zé Ferreira

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Pleats, while not trendy at the moment, are not inherently bad either. Properly placed, they enable pants to drape and fit better.

I want to wear more cotton trousers - even as opposed to chinos. FWIW, I really like the Epaulet Slim Walt for fit.

My preferred aesthetic right now is very muted/basic tops and jackets w/ loud pants.
 

Betelgeuse

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So, bringing this thread to live again. I'm thinking on buying some cotton trousers from Luxire. Just recieved the emial that my shirt is being shipped, so when it gets here, NPC may be in it's last days (Chorn), would give me the chance to analize the shirt and decide if the trousers are worhty to try. If not my sister would be the sponsor of those trousers hahaha!

But then again I'm no expert on pants. I recently bought some Purificación García, which are nice and I bought them with the purpose of getting some emasurements from them. The trousers I'm talking about are this ones:


la foto 3.JPG




la foto 2.JPG

The shirt had been already discussed in another thread so ignore that. I know the don't help a lot, but right know those are at the tailor so he's fixing the inseam cause it was was too large, around 35" and I need around 31" or 32". Would get that measure when they get here.

What I like about this trousers:
1) The rise. I feel comfortable with it. It is not very high and it's not low, maybe would increase it by 0.5" but not sure.
2) The thigh are. Although PG make some slim things, this are not that bad, 12.5" in the thigh, but those I would love to increase that measurement to 13" or even 13". I have 24" thighs with plans to grow them so having extra space is good.

What I don't like:
1) The waist. It's big. But that measurement I have a very good idea of how much I need.
2) The "seat", don't know if that is the correct term. But in the second pic you can see that the pocket have some kind of a bow. As far as I know that shouldn't be there. Those should lay flat, right? So I think that the hip measurement would need to be increased. My tailor told me to at least consider 1" extra.

And that's pretty much everything I know. Any thought would be appreciated. Bear in mind that I want comfortable trousers, that's the objective.
 

Betelgeuse

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So I will bump this thread, cause I have a lot of trouble finding pants that fit me.

This pics are from a pair of Brooks Brothers that I recently bought. I think that the front is not that bad, a bit of pocket flare, but the back is my main problem.







In the side pic you can clearly see that my body stance is like this figure, the middle one.



I thought that the problem could be solved by increasing the thigh length but it doesn't. This are the Luxire trousers. I know they don't look good at all, it was my fault. Fabric is really nice and the details you get for the price is very nice.







I posted this on the Luxire thread becuase in the Tailor's thread you never get a response and got this from SF member smoothmoose:

Originally Posted by [B said:
smoothmoose][/B]

I don't think your Brooks Brothers fit any better than your Luxire, different or tighter might be the right words. For example on the BB, it's obvious you are getting pocket flare and the seam line is being pull back towards the seat. The seat is too tight tight. Your front half hip might be ok, but you definitely need more seat (back half hip) on the BB.

Consider posting on the Tailors Fit/Alterations thread for more constructive feedback.
But there are some things that I don't get, like seam line, which one is that? And also the seat I think I have an idea of which one is the seat, but not sure and Google translate is not helping.

From the Luxire ones I would like to modify
- Increase back rise 1"
- Decrease thighs 1"
- Decrease inseam from 33" to 32" (that's what the BB measures)

And then the seat.. if I'm no wrong I asked for 21" from across the hips, but maybe I need to explain them that I need 20.5" across the hips in the front but 21.5" or maybe 22" from the back.

I was looking in SF for a solution but I can't fully understand it.

Originally posted by tutee said:
"Horseshoe" folds



This is a common enough fault in trousers. As will be observed on the illustration, the rear part of the trousers shows folds of material as though excessive length occurs here. The underside set in too close to the back of the figure's thighs. In some cases, even in these days of relative wide trousers*, the lower part of the legs will be found to cling to the calves of the figure. There may also be a definite "drag" running in a diagonal direction down the inside of the leg.

By careful manipulation at the time when the trousers are made it might be possible to disperse much of this excess length; it might also be possible to reduce the amount of it in a finished pair. But the cause of the excess may be something more than mere misplacement of cloth. It is probable that the trousers have been cut without due regard having been paid to the customer's stance and to the general build of his figure. It is well known among cutters that this particular trouble occurs very frequently in trousers worn by men of erect posture and whose calves are prominent.

Rectification is not easy in the case of a finished pair of trousers. The front of the fork needs to be slightly extended and raised such that the effect of this alteration is to give more length in the front"”an essential thing for the type of figure being discussed.
:wait: What?

I wrote to the guys from Luxire bu the explanation the gave me didn't convinced me

1. Reduce the thigh to remove the extra fabric there. (OK)
2. Reduce the back-rise, but lower the bottom to adjust. (Whaaat? Reduce the back rise?)
3. Remove extra fabric vertically from the middle. (OK)
4. Adjust the front-back balancing slightly. (OK)

I hope you can help me.

Thanks!

References, so you can check some info about where I took the information.

On Pants. Styleforum. 2010.
Fitting Trousers. The Cutter and Tailor. 2009.
Balanced Cutting Part II. The Cutter and Tailor. 2009.
Trouser Cutting. The Cutter and Tailor. 2009.
NMSU: Making Perfect Pants. New Mexico State University. Clothing Publications, Guide C-227. August 2001

 

Rambo

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Hmmmm. I'll get into the posts in a bit, but from looking at the fit pics, you've got a bigger ass width than thigh width (big hips) and its causing the flairs and tightness in the seat. You might actually be able to size up in pants size and take in the waist one or two to compensate. But that's tricky because taking in the waist too much can cause the same types of flaring issues.

Your MAIN problem is that you're trying to wear skinny pants and you're not a skinny guy. You've just got to face the music and give up the dream of a narrow leg opening. Just looking at those olive pants you can tell that the bottom leg is basically mismatched with the top seat (btw - seat = ass). Its very discordant.

Edit - they also look like they're wedged up your ass. You might want to look into a higher rise pant, which might allow you to wear them lower and give you a bit of extra room in the ass to work with so it doesn't look so cramped.
 
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Chorn

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Do you have a pair of pants that you absolutely love the fit of? Perhaps you can send them to Luxire and have their measurements replicated (as they do with shirts).

Also cotton will never look as good as wool and will never have the charm of linen. The only cotton I own with regards to pants are jeans, and I doubt that'll change.
 

Rambo

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Do you have a pair of pants that you absolutely love the fit of? Perhaps you can send them to Luxire and have their measurements replicated (as they do with shirts).

Also cotton will never look as good as wool and will never have the charm of linen. The only cotton I own with regards to pants are jeans, and I doubt that'll change.
Never going to own a chino?
 

Chorn

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Hopefully not. I had some a few years back. It's just...in any situation where I'd be wearing a chino, I'd rather either be in jeans or in proper trousers.
 

Betelgeuse

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Hmmmm. I'll get into the posts in a bit, but from looking at the fit pics, you've got a bigger ass width than thigh width (big hips) and its causing the flairs and tightness in the seat. You might actually be able to size up in pants size and take in the waist one or two to compensate. But that's tricky because taking in the waist too much can cause the same types of flaring issues.

Your MAIN problem is that you're trying to wear skinny pants and you're not a skinny guy. You've just got to face the music and give up the dream of a narrow leg opening. Just looking at those olive pants you can tell that the bottom leg is basically mismatched with the top seat (btw - seat = ass). Its very discordant.

Edit - they also look like they're wedged up your ass. You might want to look into a higher rise pant, which might allow you to wear them lower and give you a bit of extra room in the ass to work with so it doesn't look so cramped.
The Brooks Brothers are 32, they are big in the waist easily by 1", if I don't wear a belt, the fell.

Skinny? But... I... thought... BB were a full cut. So, regarding to this, I should increase the knee measurement and the leg opening?


Do you have a pair of pants that you absolutely love the fit of?
That's the problem, I don't. All look like this. :challengefailed: I didn't know a lot about pants.


Also cotton will never look as good as wool and will never have the charm of linen
I know, but I think that if I can get this ones right, then the wool ones or linen ones would turn out good. :megusta:
 

Rambo

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The Brooks Brothers are 32, they are big in the waist easily by 1", if I don't wear a belt, the fell.

Skinny? But... I... thought... BB were a full cut. So, regarding to this, I should increase the knee measurement and the leg opening?
That's the problem, I don't. All look like this. :challengefailed: I didn't know a lot about pants.
Hmmmm. Just because they say they're a full cut, doesn't necessarily mean that they are. Nor does that mean they have the type of rise that you need.

Question: How high up do you pull these pants? That looks like another issue here, now that I'm looking at it again.
 

Betelgeuse

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Hmmmm. Just because they say they're a full cut, doesn't necessarily mean that they are. Nor does that mean they have the type of rise that you need.

Question: How high up do you pull these pants? That looks like another issue here, now that I'm looking at it again.
I feel comfortable with them around 2 fingers below my belly button.

This pic might help, the middle button of this SC is like 2cm above my belly button. Should I use them lower?

isaia.jpg
 

Rambo

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Try letting them sit right on your hips. See if it makes any difference in the view from the rear. If it does, take a pic.
 

Betelgeuse

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Try letting them sit right on your hips. See if it makes any difference in the view from the rear. If it does, take a pic.
Will try. Does this will look like if there were a lot of baggyness in the crotch area?
 

Betelgeuse

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Since you're already (thinking about?) ordering from Luxire, I would absolutely look into their line-up of Minnis' frescos:

http://luxire.com/products/minnis-fresco-light-grey-plainfresco_0500

The cloth above is about as iGent approved as it gets and supposedly very cool wearing, which should suit you well. I'm planning on sewing up a pair of pants in this cloth myself, but that will have to wait until spring, for it's getting really chilly here. Brrrrrrrrrrrr ...
That fabric looks nice, but when I'm ready to buy a $225 trouser I would like to get a very nice fit from them. I think my next order is going to be another cheap fabric, to reduce the flaws and from there I will evaluate and maybe move from price range with minimum corrections :)
 

Betelgeuse

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Sounds like a prudent move. Let us know how it turns out!
Yes! I know online maker don't recieve a ton of love, but so far I have good experiences with them, especially the fabrics and workmanship is pretty good.
 

Betelgeuse

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Bete, how was your experience with the Luxire trousers?
I have a few pairs that fit amazingly, but I no longer have access to tailors who will make them at a price I find acceptable. I'm not massively worried about construction details, but it would be nice to know if the measurements are accurate and the time frame is sensible?
The time frame I think they have fixed that, they took them a lot of time, about 4 weeks to complete the order. I've read on SF that some orders are completed in 2 or 3 weeks. The measurements in the stuff I have ordered is consistent with what I've asked for.
 

Betelgeuse

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To continue with this thread and the search fo nice fitting pants without going bespoke (eventhough I would buy some in the future) on thursday I went to the mall and visited almost all the stores that sell trousers. None fit me the way I liked but I found this ones that were the best fitting of all. Zanella. They still need a bit of work on the legs, but IMO I think the hips/seat looks way better than with most of the pants. I think that if I use the measurement of this trousers and add maybe 0.5" to the seat I could get that part to fit nice. Now just figure out what to do in the legs.

Zanella-1.jpg


zanella-2.jpg


zanella-3.jpg
 

Rambo

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Jesus Christ thats a HUGE fucking improvement

Still needs some work, but god damn.
 

Betelgeuse

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Jesus Christ thats a HUGE fucking improvement

Still needs some work, but god damn.
:happycry:

I still need to figure out what it's going on with the legs to get a clean look in the back.
 

Rambo

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They're pleated. A flat front trouser would definitely eliminate that pinching.

After wearing them, what do you think the difference is?
 

Betelgeuse

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They're pleated. A flat front trouser would definitely eliminate that pinching.

After wearing them, what do you think the difference is?
But this are flat front, aren't they?

Haven't wore them a whole day, just picked them up today, but I feel free, no tightness in the seat.
 

Chorn

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Betel, I like the trou you got on for your Friday challenge (voted for you, myself, and NOBD). If it looks that good from the back, maybe send that to Luxire as a model to base theirs on?
 

Betelgeuse

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Betel, I like the trou you got on for your Friday challenge (voted for you, myself, and NOBD). If it looks that good from the back, maybe send that to Luxire as a model to base theirs on?
That would be nice but don't know how much the shipping is gonna cost me. I want to measure it, but double check with them that I'm measuring correctly.

Any thanks! :)
 

Betelgeuse

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Betelgeuse that last pair looks good on you. I'd be satisfied enough with that fit to not worry about further alterations to them.
Thanks!

Quick question... how I should measure the hips?

Where the zip fly ends?

zip.jpg


Or where the front rise starts?

raise.jpg
 

Rambo

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That bottom measurement is more of a thigh measurement. Hips is a tricky one because your individual ass shape may vary. And you are of the long-ass tribe, right?
 
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