Fall of Afghanistan

Pimpernel Smith

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It's certainly going to be difficult to get everyone out without the Taliban approval and support, unless the decision is made to break-out the perimeter. But doesn't look like that is going to happen, ''a chaotic hot mess":

 

Pimpernel Smith

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There's Twitter chatter that 2 Para has left the airport and are going to get stranded Brits and others out. Hope that's true, otherwise they're likely going to be hostages or slaves.

 
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Dropbear

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78A6130E-2A4B-4E3E-86B3-31A4FC865EA2.jpeg
 

Rambo

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Uh, no. Diagnosing the problem is a completely different but related conversation to solving it.



It refers to the professionalization of our military, it a pretty common descriptor for it. In and of itself is not a wholly bad thing, as you say it is an outgrowth of Vietnam. But there been volumes written about the myriad problems that have arisen from this. The two big ones germane to this discussion being it's created an almost wholly segregated second society that's the military economy, and Americans are a lot more cavalier about waging war because it's not their sons, daughters, sisters and brothers doing the fighting. The first part is why the military industrial complex and crony capitalism in the defense industry has exploded to astronomical levels. It's not from malign forces or 'elites', it's because of choices we have made as a society.

Just as a sidebar, I think most people on here are aware I know and have relationships with the people I'm speaking of that are involved in that community. I've had several friends deploy to Iraq and Afghanistan, among other regions, and even take part in probably the most famous operation of any of our lives( I'm sure you guys can piece together which one I mean). I see how this works up close and personal in a way that most Americans don't while living in fantasy land in whatever suburbs. While the runaway defense industry isn't the whole problem, its a huge problem because it generates staggering amounts of cash, which then go back to influencing national politicians and thus suppressing your political influence.
 

Rambo

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Amazing Afghans weren’t more interested in following this guy

 

güero

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A couple of months ago I heard an interview with someone who was deployed there and he said they could just order the most ridiculous stuff, no questions asked. Like really expensive espresso machines and things like that. And they also were automatically equipped with really expensive stuff that they couldn't use, like armored vehicles a few hundred k each, where they just wanted some indescript Hilux pickup so they wouldn't drive around like free target practice.
 

belinmad

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When the so called experts state it would take the Taliban at least three months to take Kabul, when they took all of three days, then certainly if you were an expat worker in Kabul, it would pay if you had your own geopolitical position that the proverbial was about to hit the fan.
Of course. They should have clearly asked you instead.
 

doghouse

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Amazing Afghans weren’t more interested in following this guy


I'm half shocked and half not at all surprised we let this guy be president. He was sooooo corrupt.

VP Amrullah should have be the main man, he would have actually reined in the excesses. But he is way to rough for western sensibilities. I am curious to see what he can do now that he is holed up in the Panjshir. It never fell under his mentor Massoud the last time the Taliban ruled the country and rumor is Dostum and 10,000 soldiers are heading to join him.
 

Kingstonian

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Virtue signalling jamboree in Parliament yesterday. MPs trying to outdo one another on how many refugees they would take in.
 

formby002

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It would help the MP's cause if they got a grip on the illegal immigrants crossing the channel, then the public would have some confidence that the system works. Doubly so, given that we've been dealing with a pandemic.

But no.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Virtue signalling jamboree in Parliament yesterday. MPs trying to outdo one another on how many refugees they would take in.
Preferably with no passports, or ID as if we don't have a problem with Islamist terrorists blowing up young girls at pop concerts and beheading our nationals inside our borders.

It should be made clear: only those thoroughly vetted and who have worked directly for us and their immediate family, or those endangered because of supporting us will qualify as refugees and be granted asylum.

All rather academic as looks like no one's going to get out now. Doesn't look like those Twitter posts that 2 Para was going out of the perimeter and extracting the expats and those on our lists to help to get out were true.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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This is bad optics, allegedly deserting your allies in the night:

 

Dropbear

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Eh, I dunno. Depends how much support they get. The Panjshir Valley never fell to the Taliban the first time around FWIW, so who knows. It was the graveyard of the USSR effort as well.

Pretty much. Seems like they could offer a long term military resistance again and a base to grow an opposition political movement.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Eh, I dunno. Depends how much support they get. The Panjshir Valley never fell to the Taliban the first time around FWIW, so who knows. It was the graveyard of the USSR effort as well.
There was tactical support in defeating the USSR, this time it's different. My understanding is that they only have capacity and interest for a defensive war...
Pretty much. Seems like they could offer a long term military resistance again and a base to grow an opposition political movement.
...to keep them out of their tribal region?

Putting yourself in the Taliban's position - having just had your assets frozen in the US - you'll use Western nationals and whoever else you can as hostages until you're paid in full with extras.
 

Dropbear

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They didn’t get much foreign support against the Taliban in the 1990s, yet kicked their butts consistently and held the strategic valley as a safe zone.

But that’s not to say they could roll down into Kabul anytime.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Confirmed the Brits have patrols on the streets of Kabul getting our people and Americans out:


That explains how they got the wife of Paul Farthing on an aircraft yesterday. He's been on the news and in the papers these last days explaining his wife and colleague's plight. She couldn't get through the crowds at the perimeter and was sheltering at a ''safe place''.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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This is how you do it:


 

Rambo

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this government is filled with the biggest bunch of useless cocksuckers on earth. look at this shit

 
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