Fall of Afghanistan

Rambo

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great book btw. its really really really well researched and in-depth. also, very importantly, not boring.
 

doghouse

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Yeah, Ackerman is very good. Also entertaining twitter follow.
 

Dropbear

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1981:
F936F302-C6EE-4F46-AF06-C543634131C9.jpeg
 

Pimpernel Smith

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But Trump's ego was big enough to not let them renege on the agreement and call in the air strikes with extreme mega death prejudice. Whilst also being the reincarantion of Satan and Adolf Hitler. So hard to believe he would just let it lie, he wouldn't would he?

He is after all bad enough not to be allowed a Twitter account whilst the Taliban get one for free. As they're less extreme.

Meanwhile, Harris flies out on a business trip...
 

Dropbear

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But Trump's ego was big enough to not let them renege on the agreement and call in the air strikes with extreme mega death prejudice. Whilst also being the reincarantion of Satan and Adolf Hitler. So hard to believe he would just let it lie, he wouldn't would he?

He is after all bad enough not to be allowed a Twitter account whilst the Taliban get one for free. As they're less extreme.

Meanwhile, Harris flies out on a business trip...

But are they woke to the MSM?
 

doghouse

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Olo.

Meanwhile in non crazy talk, this is a fantastic thread.

 

Rambo

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Yeah, the Taliban weren't giving any of that money to the people. It's the right decision
i disagree. so does ian, your favorite


Sanctions don’t work to get countries to do what you want: haven’t worked with North Korea, Russia, Venezuela or Cuba. But what they will do is force Afghanistan to get help where it’s available, from the same countries willing to help Iran, which is to say America’s geopolitical enemies: Russia and China.
If you take a look at a map you can see that both Russia and China really want Afghanistan to be friendly, and willing to let thru trade and traffic, plus there are all the minerals and so on.
If the US had not kept treating the Taliban as enemies, they might have been able to to avoid a tight alliance: all it takes is spending some of the war cash on Afghanistan even though the war has ended. But Americans so often don’t do realpolitik, they just pretend to. So much is about feelings, not interests.
China was always the rising power, but there was no need for Russia or Iran to be its ally. Likewise the rise of sanctions as the US’s favorite weapon, even above drones, is essentially forcing half the world to create an alternate payments system and end the dollar’s role as world reserve currency, though it may keep that status in part of the world.
Dollar hegemony is a large part of American hegemony, so this seems foolish, but the same elites who couldn’t understand why occupying Afghanistan was stupid, or why using murder squads and drones which kill 90% civilians was just making the Taliban stronger, are also incapable of actually managing America’s interests, even in the coldest, hardest, evil but semi-pragmatic terms.
 

doghouse

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i disagree. so does ian, your favorite


Well that means I'm definitely right
 

güero

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i disagree. so does ian, your favorite

Why would anyone care who's "ally" Afghanistan becomes? Do you think that the people there care which foreign country is screwing them over, on top of their own government?
 

Rambo

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Well that means I'm definitely right
lol i knew you'd appreciate that
Why would anyone care who's "ally" Afghanistan becomes? Do you think that the people there care which foreign country is screwing them over, on top of their own government?
well i presume our government would, given we've spent trillions and trillions of dollars in an effort to "control" the country.
 

güero

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well i presume our government would, given we've spent trillions and trillions of dollars in an effort to "control" the country.
yeah no, sorry, roads were made for journeys not for destinations, the chase is better than the catch, etc. pp. seems like you haven't noticed but this was about spending trillions not making trillions
 

Rambo

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yeah no, sorry, roads were made for journeys not for destinations, the chase is better than the catch, etc. pp. seems like you haven't noticed but this was about spending trillions not making trillions
Well then in your mind what was the US doing therefor 20 years?
 

Fwiffo

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“Some staff members reported that they were almost separated from their children, while others collapsed in a crush of people and had to be taken to hospitals with injuries, the cable said. Others said they had collapsed on the road because of heat exhaustion, it said.

‘It would be better to die under the Taliban’s bullet‘ than face the crowds again, a staff member was quoted as saying in the cable.

‘Happy to die here, but with dignity and pride,‘ another said, while a third accused the U.S. of prioritizing Afghan government elites with contacts in the U.S., who already had the correct paperwork and other ways to flee the country.”
 

fxh

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It's worth noting that in the early 1990s P J O'Rourke was scathingly critical of US policy in Afghanistan for eschewing support for relatively liberal forces in the country because they were inclined towards an accommodation with the Najibullah regime, in favour of the jihadists because they were uncompromising in their goal of overthrowing that regime. O'Rourke presciently predicted that this policy would come back to bite the US.

In O'Rourke's own words: "It will come as no surprise to students of past US foreign policy that the Alliance party with the greatest hatred for Western civilisation and the worst reputation for brutality is the party that got the most American money."
 

Rambo

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great piece. here's the money shot:

The reason is because it isn’t Biden’s plan, it’s the Pentagon’s plan. The Pentagon brass, who are unelected, wield so much control over our elected government. Foreign policy really flows from the Pentagon, not from any so-called democratic institution. So Biden came into office with his idea of leaving troops there forever, and then the Pentagon said, “No, we need to get out,” and that’s why he changed his tune.
Foreign policy really flows from the Pentagon, not from any so-called democratic institution.
Up until recently, the Pentagon had been mostly satisfied with the war in Afghanistan. The United States was losing for most of the occupation, and they knew that, but a drawn-out conflict like that is still good for imperialism, even if you’re losing a war in some capacity. You have this extremely bloated military budget. At times, the United States was spending $400 or $500 million per day on expenditures just for the occupation of Afghanistan. It was a huge boon for the military-industrial complex, and it allowed the US military to grow its technological arsenal.
Think of the energy companies providing fuel to all the different defense contractors that maintain the bases. Think of the companies that were building vehicles that came off the assembly line at the factory and went straight into the roads of Afghanistan, where they would get blown up, sending the military back to the factory to replace them. Think of all the companies that made the bullets, the missiles, the tank rounds. Obviously, the defense industry has an interest in keeping the war going.
As for the officers in the Pentagon, they get their combat experience, they get their medals, they get their command experience, they get promoted, and then they go into these six- or seven-figure jobs in the defense industry a week after they retire. So there is no desire from the Pentagon to end it quickly, when an ongoing occupation is a path to building their résumé and to personal enrichment.
 

Fwiffo

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"Mr Mujahid also said that working women in Afghanistan must stay at home until proper systems are in place to ensure their safety.

'Our security forces are not trained [in] how to deal with women - how to speak to women [for] some of them,' he said. 'Until we have full security in place... we ask women to stay home.'"

How about starting with women are just other human beings? There is the good, the bad, the smelly, the angelic, etc. How did these people ever speak to their mothers?
 

Fwiffo

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"'After talking with commanders on the ground and seeing the situation here, it is obvious that because we started the evacuation so late, that no matter what we do, we won't get everyone out on time, even by September 11,' the lawmakers, both of whom are veterans, said in a joint statement. 'Sadly and frustratingly, getting our people out depends on maintaining the current, bizarre relationship with the Taliban.'"

"'Washington should be ashamed of the position we put our service members in, but they represent the best in America,' they said in the statement. 'These men and women have been run ragged and are still running strong. Their empathy and dedication to duty are truly inspiring.'"

 
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