Fascism Watch - 2018

Kingstonian

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There are lots of people named as ‘fascists’ in the UK.

Many are subject to attack with a milkshake.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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For the Antifa fan boys on here, how do you reconcile the fascist brown-shirt tactic in Portland Oregon with the violent attack on the journalist Andy Ngo with his equipment stolen, punched by masked thugs and the milkshakes thrown that appear to have been a hardening concrete like substance i.e. risk of cement burns (eyes and face) and hardening until it would be like a stone or brick?

I find it difficult to accept that such violence is noble or anti-fascist, I consider it overtly fascist and an attack on an individual's dignity. The violence against Andy was fascist bullying humilation. How is it not?
 

Dropbear

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Pimpernel Smith

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When you beat up journalists because you don't like them, you are a fascist. Because their pen is mightier than your pen. You have no counter argument other than to beat him up.

What happened to I don't dig what you are saying, but I will defend you to the hilt to have the right to say it?

The video of the attack is self-explanatory: a deliberate, sustained physical attack designed to humiliate and take away the person's dignity by a mob on a lonely man.

This Great Leap Forward and Year Zero let's expunge the historic past and recreate a new superhuman is the same old tired and tried 20th century solutions.

Andy Ngo represents the crusade/jihad/spiritual/seeker quest for human dignity, it will not fail in the face of masked bully boys who hide their faces in shame!
 

Dropbear

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Jealous? Or perhaps this was a Jussie Smollett post-modernist deconstruction of reality.
Yeh, certainly seems he is looking for the Smollett angle with this.

He spent several months researching and writing about 'fake hate crimes' and then staged his own - instantly followed by the launch of a half million dollar GoFundMe all because he waded into the middle of a melee and got some soymilk splashed on him.
 

Rambo

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When you beat up journalists because you don't like them, you are a fascist. Because their pen is mightier than your pen. You have no counter argument other than to beat him up.

What happened to I don't dig what you are saying, but I will defend you to the hilt to have the right to say it?

The video of the attack is self-explanatory: a deliberate, sustained physical attack designed to humiliate and take away the person's dignity by a mob on a lonely man.

This Great Leap Forward and Year Zero let's expunge the historic past and recreate a new superhuman is the same old tired and tried 20th century solutions.

Andy Ngo represents the crusade/jihad/spiritual/seeker quest for human dignity, it will not fail in the face of masked bully boys who hide their faces in shame!
First of all, calling that 2-bit hack a "journalist" is laughable. Second, he was apparently going around instigating groups of people and sticking his camera in their faces. And lastly, he got milkshakes and punched in the face. This isn't exactly getting kidnapped by the Contra's and held for ransom.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Do you not have a sense of premonition? Feel that the overton window of the Antifa-kind is coming to an end and their sponsors are going to ditch them as a brown shirt masked paramilitary embarrassment? They need to get their kicks in now, quite literally, as lots of scrutiny coming and after that it will be open season with Supermax prisons for the top masked marvels. The rest of them will be ditching their Antifa credentials as fast as they can delete their internet history whilst maintaining a very upper middle class pension portfolio.

One hopes that they don't let this moment pass them by, maintaining their fascist 1930s tactics and uniforms so that history does accord, as with the example of Andy Ngo attack that they truly are the fascists posing as anti-fascists.
 

Rambo

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Do you not have a sense of premonition? Feel that the overton window of the Antifa-kind is coming to an end and their sponsors are going to ditch them as a brown shirt masked paramilitary embarrassment? They need to get their kicks in now, quite literally, as lots of scrutiny coming and after that it will be open season with Supermax prisons for the top masked marvels. The rest of them will be ditching their Antifa credentials as fast as they can delete their internet history whilst maintaining a very upper middle class pension portfolio.

One hopes that they don't let this moment pass them by, maintaining their fascist 1930s tactics and uniforms so that history does accord, as with the example of Andy Ngo attack that they truly are the fascists posing as anti-fascists.
to be quite frank i just cannot understand this. to me, it honestly reads like you're siding with the nazis. now i know you're not a nazi sympathizer, so don't get me wrong i'm not trying to paint you with that brush, but i cannot for the life of me get why you're on the other side on this. antifa fights nazis. we have nazis. these people are right wing sympathizers.

where's the disconnect here that i'm not seeing?
 

Fwiffo

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to be quite frank i just cannot understand this. to me, it honestly reads like you're siding with the nazis. now i know you're not a nazi sympathizer, so don't get me wrong i'm not trying to paint you with that brush, but i cannot for the life of me get why you're on the other side on this. antifa fights nazis. we have nazis. these people are right wing sympathizers.

where's the disconnect here that i'm not seeing?
Well. He is an admirer of Enoch Powell.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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to be quite frank i just cannot understand this. to me, it honestly reads like you're siding with the nazis. now i know you're not a nazi sympathizer, so don't get me wrong i'm not trying to paint you with that brush, but i cannot for the life of me get why you're on the other side on this. antifa fights nazis. we have nazis. these people are right wing sympathizers.

where's the disconnect here that i'm not seeing?
The disconnect is this, you're not fully being truthful as regards Antifa's intent and agenda. Their mission is revolution and overthrow of the Western capitalist order and replacing it. You keep on telling us that they are at the pointy-end of defending us from Nazism, but that's not really true is it, that may be one worthy element and a good selling point, but it's not the main aim is it?

The videos posted on YouTube look quite sinister, I don't see any blatant Nazi bashing, I see a lot of weird humiliating attacks against old people and masked paramilitaries surrounding single individuals.

At this stage, Antifa looks like an organisation that will soon find it's modus operandi difficult to maintain and may soon be seen as embarrassment and will be ditched politically and by some of their sponsors.

Personally, I find it very odd that an organisation that is or markets itself as anti-Nazi has to operate in the shadows with masks.

I am yet to be convinced by Antifa's tactics.

Well. He is an admirer of Enoch Powell.
And as you well know, Brigadier Powell was very pivotal in the intelligence services in WWII and was indeed, a patriot, and certainly no Nazi.
 

Dropbear

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The disconnect is this, you're not fully being truthful as regards Antifa's intent and agenda. Their mission is revolution and overthrow of the Western capitalist order and replacing it.l.
You keep saying this sort of crazy stuff in spite of all evidence to the contrary. Maybe because you are falling into the trap of far right and liberal propaganda machines that conflate antifascism, black block protesters and the far left.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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You keep saying this sort of crazy stuff in spite of all evidence to the contrary. Maybe because you are falling into the trap of far right and liberal propaganda machines that conflate antifascism, black block protesters and the far left.
Not at all, I would suggest that the problem doesn't lie with me, but with the propaganda arm of Antifa. At this stage, you seem to be losing the information and culture war. Andy Ngo may well be a hack, but let's not pretend the talking heads of CNN and the likes of Channel 4's news readers require professional status. In fact it doesn't does it? So from the perspective he has equal worth with the rest of the journalists, he's also published in mainstream outlets, he's a journalist. Is he a Nazi? Hard to believe a gay man from Vietnam stock would be in with Nazis. But we're being asked to believe that. A tough sell. Also the attack went on too long and was out of all proportion for the crime of sticking his hack citizen journalist camera into the faces of Antifa. As Antifa have that video camera, they should publish this intrusive journalism so we understand why Andy Ngo got a good beating.

Doubling down and not having self-reflection on tactics will I think deliver Antifa into a thrashing they won't recover from.

To you, it's self-evident that Andy Ngo is with Nazis and deserves a good beating, do you think the rest humanity sees that? Or that old guy in the car who was threatened and intimated in Portland last year?

The questions I would ask Antifa are this: in who's name do you ride? Are you in danger of becoming an embarrassment to them? And if so, how do you think they will ditch you? Finally, do you not think the delta of what you consider Nazism is too broad and perhaps should be more nuanced and recognize that calling conservatives and those right of centre Nazis might actually be crying wolf and infringe on our ability to illicit support when the real Nazis arrive?
 

Dropbear

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Nice straw man argument, but still dodging the evidence. No one is calling Ngo a fascist.

He’s a partisan opportunist who found his shtick by antagonizing and doxing antifascist protestors. He inserts himself right into the middle of an ongoing melee to provoke a reaction. It’s worked well for him - raising his profile to national status and netting hundreds of thousands of dollars. Last weekend he succeeded in getting milkshaked and roughed-up a little. Yet the truth is, neither side in that conflict (antifascists and a white supremacist coalition) cared about him in any way - he chose to get in the middle of the fight.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Nice straw man argument, but still dodging the evidence. No one is calling Ngo a fascist.

He’s a partisan opportunist who found his shtick by antagonizing and doxing antifascist protestors. He inserts himself right into the middle of an ongoing melee to provoke a reaction. It’s worked well for him - raising his profile to national status and netting hundreds of thousands of dollars. Last weekend he succeeded in getting milkshaked and roughed-up a little. Yet the truth is, neither side in that conflict (antifascists and a white supremacist coalition) cared about him in any way - he chose to get in the middle of the fight.
Exactly! What do you think journalism and also war photography is: inserting yourself into the affray at the decisive moment.

Your argument lacks credibility to the craft of journalism.

Now you say that Andy Ngo was detested by both sides hence, none of the Nazis came to save him, I get that as a gay ethnic minority. Right on, plausible. But surely, you Antifa types being anti-Nazi would have just given this effete individual a pass?

That's why you're running out of credibility.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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No he is obviously more a fanboi of the Italian brand of facism.
The only thing that Italian fascism had going for it, was a whiff of futurism as an artform and that it would have survived as in Spain, if it had remained neutral or had sided with the allies in WWII. Mussolini could have got away with it, if only his ego hadn't got in the way, and most Italians knew day one of the war, they were going to lose. The war was extremely unpopular in Italy, the Italians were not as brainwashed as the Germans. But also most of Italy in the 1930s, 40s and 50s was impoverished and nothing to brag about. Vespas? That's what their middle class were enjoying instead of real cars.

I have nothing against Antifa if what they say they are is true, in fact, I would be up there supporting them, but the evidence doesn't fit that. So I don't buy into it, but my bench mark of support is pretty high. I am open to be persuaded, but nothing so far sways me.

My nephew in the UK is Antifa. Private school, ultra privileged background, seemingly decent red brick university and eventually he graduated in Accountancy, but with a clear belief that it was a useless discipline no longer needed and is now in sales. A position through his father's connections, but very, very woke. I pity a man who graduates in Accountancy from a top university with a belief that accountants are finished. A discipline that's been well streamlined, but still exists and is needed and well paid for if you'll apply yourself. And then you use your white middle class privilege and connections to get you a job.
 

Rambo

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The disconnect is this, you're not fully being truthful as regards Antifa's intent and agenda. Their mission is revolution and overthrow of the Western capitalist order and replacing it.
Well now i like them even more
 

Dropbear

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Not detested. Simply irrelevant.

If he hadn’t stepped into the crossfire, he wouldn’t have been harmed, scored the publicity or the cash - same as the dozens of other journalists covering the story. But he didn’t simply want to cover it - that’s not his shtick. If you stand in the middle of a barroom brawl, you might get hit. He went looking for milkshake. He even wanted to claim is was cement.

Well now i like them even more
Sorry to disappoint, but most antifa groups are explicitly nonpartisan. Mine has a few Republicans, libertarians and a bunch of center-right Dems. If you want world revolution that’s fine, but check it at the door. The sole aim is combating the rising fascist movements. Something we do on dozens of projects (counter-protesting far-right street actions being a very minor one). I teach firearms as part of a broader self-defense course for people at risk.
 

Dropbear

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