From structured shoulder to a natural shoulder...

[Betelgeuse]

Hey guys...

So, with some jackets I have, some have told me that because of my shoulders they don't look very good and I kinda agree.

So the question is... what should I say to the tailor to take the shoulder pads of a jacket? Or what would the alteration need to be?

I need to go from this...

To something like this

Any help would be appreciated.

The last jacket doesn't have any shoulder padding at all.

Thanks!

 

[Thruth]

Betelgeuse why do you think the structured shoulder does not look very good?

 

[Grand Potentate]

I thought the rule was to never fuck with the padding in a shoulder. Or was that never fuck with the roping in a shoulder?

 

[Thruth]

I thought the rule was to never fuck with the padding in a shoulder. Or was that never fuck with the roping in a shoulder?

From Despos:

Removing Shoulder Pads

The result will vary and it depends on the slope of your shoulders and the slope of the jacket shoulder. if your shoulder has a regular slope and the jacket shoulder slope is cut for a regular shoulder and has a medium size pad, say 1/2" thick, when the pad is removed, there will be a 1/2" gap between your shoulder and the jacket. This will cause the jacket to break and wrinkle under the arms and blade. If you have high, squarish shoulders and the jacket has a regular slope, your shoulder will fill in the gap and the jacket fit will be improved. If the jacket is cut with square shoulders, removing the pad will not soften the cut. You will need to do major surgery. As the shoulder really defines the silhouette, shoulder expression is best discussed and defined in detail when commissioning MTM or bespoke clothing.

 

[FriendCustomer]

i know a guy who has removed shoulder padding successfully but it requires a very highly skilled alterations tailor to do it correctly. basically guys who can do bespoke but are working in alterations and are willing to put in the time and effort to do it right. most alteration guys, even pretty good ones, will fuck you up royally.

 

[Thruth]

i know a guy who has removed shoulder padding successfully but it requires a very highly skilled alterations tailor to do it correctly. basically guys who can do bespoke but are working in alterations and are willing to put in the time and effort to do it right. most alteration guys, even pretty good ones, will fuck you up royally.

As with anything the skill of the tailor will dictate success. Despos goes on about how in some cases the padding removal can improve armhole fit or detract from it. As you state it is not a simple remove and go procedure

 

[Scherensammler]

To check whether or not your shoulders will fill out the gap created by the missing pads open the front button.
If the fronts swing (slightly) open it is likely that the removal can be done.
If nothing happens the slope needs to be corrected, which means taking out the sleeves, re-cut the crown and so on.

 

[fxh]

You can have a "natural" looking shoulder with some fair degree of padding in it. Except in extremes the look of a shoulder may not be that related to padding yes or no but rather what kind, size how and where. Taking out padding to create a soft natural shoulder is not really a great idea as the rest of the jacket wont be designed - structurally or in visual terms to look like the "natural" shoulder.

In addition it requires a tailor - not an alterationist - and it involves around at least 3 - 4 hours work at least. Major ish surgery - many proper tailors will talk you out of it or even refuse to do it.

The reverse is true - most soft/natural shoulders as fetishised on some forums could do with a bit of judicious added padding to improve their looks. You can have a fair bit of padding without the shoulder looking like armor.

 

[Betelgeuse]

To check whether or not your shoulders will fill out the gap created by the missing pads open the front button.
If the fronts swing (slightly) open it is likely that the removal can be done.
If nothing happens the slope needs to be corrected, which means taking out the sleeves, re-cut the crown and so on.

A pic like this one?

 

[Scherensammler]

A pic like this one?

Yes! You can see that the fronts swing open very slightly, so my guess is that you can have the padding removed. And by padding I mean the stuff between the two outside layers of a shoulder pad. That can be done relatively quickly and easily (well, compared to taking the shoulders and sleeves to bits, that is).
But why do you want to change the shoulders? Is it just the look you don't like or does the jacket rest on your shoulders, making it feel uncomfortable compared to the "natural shoulder" coat?

In addition it requires a tailor - not an alterationist - and it involves around at least 3 - 4 hours work at least. Major ish surgery - many proper tailors will talk you out of it or even refuse to do it.

+1! TBH, I wouldn't mess with the jackets. Apart from the costs you may end up with an unsatisfying result.

 

[Betelgeuse]

Yes! You can see that the fronts swing open very slightly, so my guess is that you can have the padding removed. And by padding I mean the stuff between the two outside layers of a shoulder pad. That can be done relatively quickly and easily (well, compared to taking the shoulders and sleeves to bits, that is).
But why do you want to change the shoulders? Is it just the look you don't like or does the jacket rest on your shoulders, making it feel uncomfortable compared to the "natural shoulder" coat?



+1! TBH, I wouldn't mess with the jackets. Apart from the costs you may end up with an unsatisfying result.

Nice!

Well, I feel that because of my forward shoulders the shoulder pad kinda "breaks" if that makes sense and form some slight curve (break) in the shoulder line. That doesn't happen with the jacket with natural shoulders.

 

[LelandJ]

Dhaka humped shoulder pad lines are unbearable for me, to see it in bespoke suits (not yours Betel) is incredible.

 

[Scherensammler]

Nice!

Well, I feel that because of my forward shoulders the shoulder pad kinda "breaks" if that makes sense and form some slight curve (break) in the shoulder line. That doesn't happen with the jacket with natural shoulders.

Well, if you have or know a good tailor you can trust with the job, talk to him/ her. At least you'll get an opinion on possible options and an estimation of the costs.
For forward shoulders you need to have some room in the coat for that, so even without the pad the coat might still not sit right.

 

[doghouse]

+1! TBH, I wouldn't mess with the jackets. Apart from the costs you may end up with an unsatisfying result.

Concur.

 

[Grand Potentate]

Thieves. You're headed for disaster fucking around with the shoulders. Sell them and move on to some new shit.

 

[Scherensammler]

Thieves. You're headed for disaster fucking around with the shoulders. Sell them and move on to some new shit.

:worthy:We were just waiting for a real man with some balls to tell him that. And you are, of course, right!

 

[Monkeyface]

Betel, just sell them and save for something with natural shoulders. Fixing the shoulders will cost you lots of pesos and is very risky.

 

[LelandJ]

Betel, how many padless jackets do you have?

 

[fxh]

Nice!
Well, I feel that because of my forward shoulders the shoulder pad kinda "breaks" if that makes sense and form some slight curve (break) in the shoulder line. That doesn't happen with the jacket with natural shoulders.

Sometimes moving the pad back kinda behind the shoulders is a good move.

I am not a tailor.
I am the NOTSARTO

 

[fxh]

Well, if you have or know a good tailor you can trust with the job, talk to him/ her. At least you'll get an opinion on possible options and an estimation of the costs.
For forward shoulders you need to have some room in the coat for that, so even without the pad the coat might still not sit right.

I'm with schirtslammer, scheersampler, the poster above. Be careful mucking around with shoulders unless its bespoke and its the maker adjusting.

Having said that I've just thrown caution to the wind and let a tailor (a proper one) - one I've never used except to take up one pair of trousers - shorten and adjust the shoulders on a nice flannel tweedy looking Corneliani tan/ light brown PoW suit that already has very very soft natural shoulders with minimal padding. I didn't say much just tried the jacket on and asked him what he thought - he started on a nice rant and pinned a few things around fiddled with padding - got a thin pad from his workshop and slipped it in over my shirt then put me in front of the mirror - everything he said made sense - he didn't over sell, he was confident but cautious, he said he'd do it at home on the weekend as it wasn't a simple alteration he could do in between alteration customers etc. In a word I trusted him. We'll see next week if I was silly.

The other point is - that jacket looks OK from any of the photos I've seen - sure its not a soft /natural shoulder - but so what. Its just another way to wear shoulders. You've got enough jackets to have a few different styles.

 

[Betelgeuse]

Betel, how many padless jackets do you have?

4

Sometimes moving the pad back kinda behind the shoulders is a good move.

I am not a tailor.
I am the NOTSARTO

Could you explain a bit more?

 

[Thruth]

that jacket looks OK from any of the photos I've seen - sure its not a soft /natural shoulder - but so what. Its just another way to wear shoulders. You've got enough jackets to have a few different styles.

This cannot be said enough. The soft shoulder is but one type of shoulder style and it is a "preferred" style element on SF. That does not it is the only one out there. Like fxh, you do not look bad or strange in your non-soft shouldered jackets.

If that is what you want, buy them from now on that way. Don't mess with what you have.

Do people compliment you or notice you more with your soft shoulders or is it that you get more thumbs on SF with them or that you think you look better?

 

[fxh]

4

Could you explain a bit more?

Not without waving my hands around a lot.
Much of good tailoring - esp fixing problems - eg shoulders, trousers fork/crutch, balance - is not intuitive/commonsense to the untrained person. Or especially the Internet forum expert. Its counterintuitive - letting out and making looser will solve what seems to be excess material, f'rinstance the Luxire saggy bum is a 3 dimensional problem solved by adjusting stuff at the fork - and perhaps the back rise - the intersection of 4 pieces of material in the crutch - simply adjusting one measurement doesn't necessarily work.

 

[LelandJ]

I don't understand why there aren't structured jackets with pads much thinner and subtler in appearance. Perhaps the time to bespoke one would be cost prohibitive but to the wealthiest? We've also seen quite a few igents with tall neck extreme slanted shoulders who probably shouldn't have padless shoulders ever.

 

[fxh]

I don't understand why there aren't structured jackets with pads much thinner and subtler in appearance. Perhaps the time to bespoke one would be cost prohibitive but to the wealthiest? We've also seen quite a few igents with tall neck extreme slanted shoulders who probably shouldn't have padless shoulders ever.

Theres lots around.

 

[LelandJ]

I never see them.

 

[fxh]

There Are None So Blind As Those Who Will Not See:
According to the ‘Random House Dictionary of Popular Proverbs and Sayings’ this proverb has been traced back to 1546 (John Heywood), and resembles the Biblical verse Jeremiah 5:21 (‘Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not’). In 1738 it was used by Jonathan Swift in his ‘Polite Conversation’ and is first attested in the United States in the 1713 ‘Works of Thomas Chalkley’. The full saying is: ‘There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know’

 

[fxh]

lelandj - I have a range of different shoulders on jackets - one day I might do snaps of them - they range from unlined no pad at all to buggy lined very thin thin pad right through to a French made Cardin with fairly substantial structure and everything in between. I have a lot of Ivy vintage jackets.

 

[Betelgeuse]

Not without waving my hands around a lot.
Much of good tailoring - esp fixing problems - eg shoulders, trousers fork/crutch, balance - is not intuitive/commonsense to the untrained person. Or especially the Internet forum expert. Its counterintuitive - letting out and making looser will solve what seems to be excess material, f'rinstance the Luxire saggy bum is a 3 dimensional problem solved by adjusting stuff at the fork - and perhaps the back rise - the intersection of 4 pieces of material in the crutch - simply adjusting one measurement doesn't necessarily work.

This sounds a lot like the forward shoulder alteration. Most tailors don't get it.

So what this mean is that moving the shoulder pads backwards could fix the problem?

 

[fxh]

This sounds a lot like the forward shoulder alteration. Most tailors don't get it.
So what this mean is that moving the shoulder pads backwards could fix the problem?

Dunno - maybe - like I said its not straightforward. Or backwards I suppose.

Thats why one uses experienced tailors. And doesn't try to change things too much.

 

[doghouse]

Be careful mucking around with shoulders unless its bespoke and its the maker adjusting.

Even then it can be hit and miss.

 

[Betelgeuse]

Now... can the shoulder expression be modified?

 

[Grand Potentate]

Now... can the shoulder expression be modified?

Maybe if you tell it a funny joke you'll be able to turn that frown upside down.

 

[Betelgeuse]

Maybe if you tell it a funny joke you'll be able to turn that frown upside down.

I did not understood haha.

 

[Grand Potentate]

Just a friendly joke Betel.

Give up on this quest. It will only end up in sadness.

 

[Scherensammler]

Even then it can be hit and miss.

Yep, you could end up with Spanish sleeves™ and someone like Sarto would give you a half slap, causing spinal damage and then the jacket won't fit properly, making the whole process of the alteration pointless.

Now... can the shoulder expression be modified?

Theoretically it's possible, but it's like remaking half of the jacket. High costs and uncertain result. See above!

Just a friendly joke Betel.

Give up on this quest. It will only end up in sadness.

+1000!

 

[fxh]

betel - stop for a minute - read all the advice above - stop and think - what does it all seem to be saying?

 

[Betelgeuse]

I know. Thing is that around here it's not that easy to sell them and get new ones. So I guess I'm keeping them.

 

[Grand Potentate]

I know. Thing is that around here it's not that easy to sell them and get new ones. So I guess I'm keeping them.

There's nothing wrong with them. Its not like you look like shit. Take pics of them, take measurements, and put them up for sale here and on SF. If they sell, great. If not, keep wearing them until they do.

 

[LelandJ]

Betel, the Dhaka Foo shoulder humps are horrible. Only the first jacket in the thread doesn't have them. (edit: borderline on your left shoulder) Don't let Rambo fool you.