Hate the Millennials/Ask a Millennial a question

Chorn

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I am a Millennial. I also hate us. I grew up among us. I know us. We are the future. Be afraid. Should we ever get over our anomie/ennui, we will accomplish great things.

Ask away. Criticize away.
 

Chorn

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Jumping on to your comment in a different thread about baby boomers; there is no question that Millennials are suffering because of Boomer and Gen X spending habits. The job market for us is terrible. On one hand, yeah, too many Millennials hop jobs too quickly/are unwilling to be in it for the long haul...on the other hand...the shitty state of the economy in Europe and America is definitely the fault of the previous generations as a whole (as opposed to any one party).
 

Chorn

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Weirder foods, broader diets.

Same amount of asthma. Shittier air and over protective moms taking their kids to the doc for the smallest wheeze, terrified or apathetic docs overzealously/cautiously/carelessly handing out diagnoses and prescriptions.

The spectrum is being expanded by baby boom psychologists.

So other people's fault
 

OfficePants

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Weirder foods, broader diets.

Same amount of asthma. Shittier air and over protective moms taking their kids to the doc for the smallest wheeze, terrified or apathetic docs overzealously/cautiously/carelessly handing out diagnoses and prescriptions.

The spectrum is being expanded by baby boom psychologists.

So other people's fault
And they get trophies for failures.
 

Chorn

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So you're saying baby boom parents have done a shitty job, eh?

Seriously. I wonder what millennial parents are going to be like. Imma be Asian fusion.
 

OfficePants

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So you're saying baby boom parents have done a shitty job, eh?

Seriously. I wonder what millennial parents are going to be like. Imma be Asian fusion.
Parents born around the mid-60s are the trigger point. They were kids of the 70s, were teens in the early 80s.

I can't put my finger on exactly what happened here, but it has to be a combination of yuppie culture, economic prosperity, wealth creation of the 90s, and then on top of that came the Oprah dogshit and self help culture which convinced people they were enlightened and a race to the bottom in terms of appearing to care about your kids. They keyword is "appearing".

What they've ended up doing is turning their kids into an entitled bunch of ninnies that need constant reassurance to achieve anything. The end state is a generation that doesn't know how to fail, learn from failure, and wants rewards without effort.
 

Thruth

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It is very interesting how this sense of entitlement plus not taking responsibility for one's action/blaming everyone else developed.

Clearly, each new generation of parents spoils their children more but where is the disconnect of forgetting to instill values?

Society and government are to blame because they allow a blameless culture to exist. My dog ate my homework has been normalized.

I spoiled my kids when compared to what my parents provided for me but they were poor and pushed me to not be like them.

I expect my kids to be responsible and accountable. None of them have untoward expectations about top salary right off the nut. They exhibit some millennial behaviour which I suppose I can tolerate.

Might have something to do with not coming from a privledged background. My grandparents were all illiterate. My father had grade 9 and my mother grade 11.

We've never let them forget how hard life can be. I would also anecdotally suggest that having a full time stay at home parent eliminates the "raised by others" that surely contributes to this mess
 

OfficePants

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It is very interesting how this sense of entitlement plus not taking responsibility for one's action/blaming everyone else developed.

Clearly, each new generation of parents spoils their children more but where is the disconnect of forgetting to instill values?

Society and government are to blame because they allow a blameless culture to exist. My dog ate my homework has been normalized.

I spoiled my kids when compared to what my parents provided for me but they were poor and pushed me to not be like them.

I expect my kids to be responsible and accountable. None of them have untoward expectations about top salary right off the nut. They exhibit some millennial behaviour which I suppose I can tolerate.

Might have something to do with not coming from a privledged background. My grandparents were all illiterate. My father had grade 9 and my mother grade 11.

We've never let them forget how hard life can be. I would also anecdotally suggest that having a full time stay at home parent eliminates the "raised by others" that surely contributes to this mess
I've fired 4 interns and am looking for a 5th. The way these kids do business is shockingly bad compared to the way I did things at their age. There is a big gulf and it happened very quickly because people just a bit older don't have the same problem, and I can assure you I was nothing like these kids I see.
 

Thruth

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So Chorn Chorn , since you hate your generation, which traits do you exhibit and which traits that you don't exhibit do you abhor the most?
 

Russell Street

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I would also anecdotally suggest that having a full time stay at home parent eliminates the "raised by others" that surely contributes to this mess
I identify with Gen X, and am pretty sure my DOB fall in there. I was, at the proper age, a latchkey kid. But parenting was actually done by a full-time parent in the formative years.
I think that the two working parents is a root cause. Raised by hired stewards, the children are there to be enjoyed after work and let those pesky hired hands deal with the gritty work. Of course there is a tragedy of the commons where, unless there is some deep authoritarian strain, the temporary nannies do as little as possible because they don't see instilling values, discipline, etc. as their responsibility either.
 

Thruth

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I've fired 4 interns and am looking for a 5th. The way these kids do business is shockingly bad compared to the way I did things at their age. There is a big gulf and it happened very quickly because people just a bit older don't have the same problem, and I can assure you I was nothing like these kids I see.
There is some good survey research on millennials where they answer questions about education and learning. I'll have to dig out the link but I think it was high school students in California and has been replicated elsewhere. I've replicated it with medical and dental students.

Two very telling points are most believe if you shoe up for class and do all assignments they deserve a B. Plus cheating and plagiarism has been normalized and is not wrong or should be punished
 

doghouse

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I identify with Gen X, and am pretty sure my DOB fall in there. I was, at the proper age, a latchkey kid. But parenting was actually done by a full-time parent in the formative years.
I think that the two working parents is a root cause. Raised by hired stewards, the children are there to be enjoyed after work and let those pesky hired hands deal with the gritty work. Of course there is a tragedy of the commons where, unless there is some deep authoritarian strain, the temporary nannies do as little as possible because they don't see instilling values, discipline, etc. as their responsibility either.
I am Gen X myself. I was hyper critical of my generation growing up, and really thought I identified more with the Boomers. In the past 5 to 10 years though, I've pretty much done a 180. The facts bear it out as well, every meaningful social statistic has improved under Gen X, from divorce rates to violence, which bottomed out under the Boomers.

What does this have to do with Millenials? They are the direct product of laissez faire parenting and general life skills the Boomers had. Boomers where the generation of "just do whatever the fuck you want regardless of how it affected anyone else" and their kids are showing it.
 

Thruth

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Depending on what you read, someone born in 1964 is either the last pelvic thrust of the Babyboom generation or the first load of Gen X. There are also references to the forgotten generation or Generation Jones. It is clear that people born on the cusps of generations cannot necessarily be expected to exhibit the same characteristics of say someone born in 1946.

Additionally, my parents were old for their age when they adopted me. My mother was 34 and my father 46 so I imagine that muddies the waters in terms of raising. The fact I am adopted also anecdotally suggests based on me playing back the tapes that there has to be a genetic component involved as well.

Here is a bit of a fluff quiz, see where it puts you. Interestingly enough, I am at the crossroads of Gen X and Gen Y.

http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/25/what-generation-are-you-part-of-really-take-this-test/
 

John Lee Pettimore III

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Jumping on to your comment in a different thread about baby boomers; there is no question that Millennials are suffering because of Boomer and Gen X spending habits.
Spending habits? Can you explain this? Would you rather those generations save more and hoard their wealth from you?

...the shitty state of the economy in Europe and America is definitely the fault of the previous generations as a whole (as opposed to any one party).
And your cushyass lifestyle is also the fault of previous generations. Sweet Jesus, imagine trying to explain to your great-grandfather that people are legally allowed to bring therapy dogs to work to manage their stress. Stress that doesn't involve a war, a plague, or starvation, but those uppity bitches in Accounts Receivable. It reminds me of people trying to minimize McCain's POW experience while having to take a Xanax just to deal with that obnoxious barista at Starbucks.
 

Chorn

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Credit spending. Including buying houses they can't afford. Folks spending money they actually have ain't no thang.

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Hmmmmm....I scored a 9.

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Don't know. I dislike our sense of entitlement. I'm pretty detached from it all. But I grind my teeth whenever I see people on my Facebook feed bitching about their student loans. It's gotten better as I've gotten older (and I'm assuming they've gotten jobs).

I realize that the economy tanked when we graduated (in my case 2008. I had an offer rescinded because the company instituted a hiring freeze). But fuck man, I managed to repay close to 65k in 3 years (parents covered 25k and scholarships made up the rest of the half). Yeah, I had to leave the country to do it. But still.

And then I feel shitty for thinking like that. Because not everyone can do that, even if they wanted to, had the ability to, and had the will to.

Regardless, they owe the money. Duped or not. They made a legal arrangement. The bank fulfilled their side of the bargain.

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I have no idea if my demographic is particularly hard working or not. Most people I know are, but I might have a biased sampling. I know that I take less then one day off a month. I once worked for something like 92 straight days without a day off. My dad is a workaholic, and I have a weird guilt complex where if I'm not being productive, I feel like I'm a lazy piece of shit.

So when I hear about millennials supposedly being lazy, I don't know what to think. I know I'm not lazy. But I also know I have some serious work issues. So I know its not really fair for me to look at them and say "why the fuck aren't you working. It's Saturday. Have you paid off your house yet? Do you have enough saved up for your kids college? No? Then get a second job."

So I feel shitty for thinking like that.

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I can't help but feel we are too self-aware and too self-involved. Myself very much included.

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In the end, I'm way too out of touch to really make a meaningful comment. I'm the only non-Asian American millennial I really know at this point. Except, come to think of it, a good friend of mine. Born in 1982. Worked with him in a research institute. He generally did 50-60 hour work weeks. But he had terrible saving habits. Not sure if that's a millennial quality.
 
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doghouse

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Not sure if that's a millennial quality.

In all honesty, I abhor generational generalizations. Each individual has their own experience, and it's pretty conclusive that socio economic background, geographic influence, and other things play a much bigger part.
 

John Lee Pettimore III

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But folks spending money like idiots typically benefits people who don't spend like idiots. Again, I fail to see how that really hurt you guys (besides enabling a bunch of inefficient nanny state legislation). To take an ugly stereotype to the extreme for the sake of argument - what would happen to all the rims and gold teeth places if hood rats suddenly decided to spend responsibly? All those jobs would be lost. Or more broadly, if people realized that a car payment is usually a pretty stupid expense? The car industry would grind to a halt.

This. My parents never bought shit they couldn't afford.
Mine either. I think the recession was the best thing to ever happen to millennials. Taught most of them early on to be more frugal and save. Most of the idiots I see buying too much shit are from my generation (I'm 37).

What I love are the fast food workers arguing for an increase in minimum wage. Interaction with the workers is usually (outside of a place like Chik-Fil-A) the least pleasant part of the experience. If they raise the minimum wage, replace the cashier with a bolted down kiosk and save yourself a shitload of grief.

I think, down the road, we'll have to institute a 35 hr work week, if only because more and more jobs will be automated.
 

OfficePants

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But folks spending money like idiots typically benefits people who don't spend like idiots. Again, I fail to see how that really hurt you guys (besides enabling a bunch of inefficient nanny state legislation). To take an ugly stereotype to the extreme for the sake of argument - what would happen to all the rims and gold teeth places if hood rats suddenly decided to spend responsibly? All those jobs would be lost. Or more broadly, if people realized that a car payment is usually a pretty stupid expense? The car industry would grind to a halt.
Yeah, I see your point, but we're just digging a deeper and deeper false bottom. If ghetto rats didn't have rims and gold teeth, perhaps they'd even open a bank account. I know, I'm crazy to think it.

What hurts me is as as a business owner having to replace 4 separate interns because as workers, they are worse than retards. At least a retard would reply to all in email chains. So that's where it hurts. I need qualified interns that are more than just hollow masters degree students... they are too entitled to get their hands dirty. One intern whined that she didn't expect to have to compile contact lists... oh ya darling, this is nail chipping work.

Mine either. I think the recession was the best thing to ever happen to millennials. Taught most of them early on to be more frugal and save. Most of the idiots I see buying too much shit are from my generation (I'm 37).

What I love are the fast food workers arguing for an increase in minimum wage. Interaction with the workers is usually (outside of a place like Chik-Fil-A) the least pleasant part of the experience. If they raise the minimum wage, replace the cashier with a bolted down kiosk and save yourself a shitload of grief.

I think, down the road, we'll have to institute a 35 hr work week, if only because more and more jobs will be automated.
I don't know. It seems to have taught them to occupy Wall St (and ya, most on Wall St need a foot up their ass), I'm not sure I see any frugality and savings. They just don't have decent paying jobs and cash, otherwise they would be. And their parents are still supporting them.
 

Russell Street

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Again, I fail to see how that really hurt you guys (besides enabling a bunch of inefficient nanny state legislation).
Tell me how the artificially low interest rates meant to sustain the unsustainable debt-based economy benefit savers.
...what would happen to all the rims and gold teeth places if hood rats suddenly decided to spend responsibly? All those jobs would be lost.
Oh, the poor buggy whip makers!
Resources, including labor, would be allocated to more efficient use elsewhere. Maybe this magical domestic tailoring renaissance would happen!
I think, down the road, we'll have to institute a 35 hr work week, if only because more and more jobs will be automated.
The liberal "story of stuff" does make the point that in the immediate Post-War period when manufacturing efficiency rapidly rose, the Europeans decided to work less and the Americans figured out how to get people to buy more. I decidedly prefer the former.
 

John Lee Pettimore III

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Tell me how the artificially low interest rates meant to sustain the unsustainable debt-based economy benefit savers.
That's neither was Clag was stating nor what I was answering. I too think interest rates are too low. It's insanely unsustainable.

The liberal "story of stuff" does make the point that in the immediate Post-War period when manufacturing efficiency rapidly rose, the Europeans decided to work less and the Americans figured out how to get people to buy more. I decidedly prefer the former.
Europe had to work less. All their factories were destroyed and much of their intellectual capital burned in Auschwitz or came to the Americas or formed Israel and were too busy bringing the first world to Palestine.

But I agree, wouldn't mind a shorter workweek.
 

Thruth

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From a sociologic standpoint, one of the major thresholds used to describe differences in SES was the lack of deferment of gratification amongst the lowest SES groups. Po folk never saved for a rainy day and spent what they got. Sweeping generalization, I know.

But lack of deferment of gratification has migrated its way on up through the social strata, no?
 

Thruth

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I tend to agree with this "disagree"

The reduction of the European work week is relatively new. France began it circa 2000 to curb unemployment and get a more even distribution of labour.

It may be only a matter of time until it becomes a serious consideration in North America.

There have been many studies that show better alignment of time on/off work results in better productivity and quality of work. Whether that is a shorter work week or more frequent holidays (x weeks on + y week(s) off)

The mining industry seems to embrace doing 12 hour shifts for x days coupled with time off.

Nursing in many places use 36 hour work weeks probably because outside of critical care areas nurses even get tired of sitting in gaggles, chatting, eating and sleeping on the job.
 

Russell Street

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Po folk never saved for a rainy day and spent what they got. Sweeping generalization, I know.

But lack of deferment of gratification has migrated its way on up through the social strata, no?
I'd make the distinction between poor (economic) and underclass (social). The underclass lives in the moment and is the perpetual grasshopper. Obligatory reference to the Stanford marshmallow experiment here.

Partially it's the breakdown of the old WASP establishment as the upper class and replacing them with athletes and celebrities (people that should be a rung above minstrels and prostitutes were it not for the lucre of mass media). But the overprotective government has also incentivized this "prole drift" toward recklessness. Social Security takes money from my check, I don't need to save hahah. As an aside, who all has had a bank savings account as long as they can remember? And parents forcing you to deposit Grannie's birthday check there? I hated that, but oh did it teach that money is not there to be blown away.

I'm pretty sure the Europeans have culturally always had a higher esteem for leisure than the US. Americans do two week vacaions (if that) where the month+ paid holiday is not at all uncommon for the lowest European IIRC.
 

Chorn

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That's neither was Clag was stating nor what I was answering. I too think interest rates are too low. It's insanely unsustainable.
It's part of exactly what I was referring to. Part of it is people going into massive amounts of credit card debt to sustain a lifestyle they can't afford. That will eventually slow down consumption, which will hurt the economy. Mostly that's just stupidity. But I was chiefly thinking of the housing crisis.

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I'm an older millennial, but I've had a savings account for as long as I can remember. At least since I was 11 or 12. My parents encouraged me to deposit all of my birthday money in there (and I mostly did). I think I had accumulated a few thousand dollars between that and summer jobs. And all of that disappeared towards college. I had never written a check so large. Or so depressing.

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This generation as serious issues. So did the last. This current iteration of America also has a ton of issues that go well beyond a single generation or a single administration.

What bugs me the most is the belief that we could somehow return to the heyday of the American Dream, where prosperity was possible for most, if not all (or at least, we could believe that and not sound delusional). Coupled with that, the belief that had we not done something wrong somewhere down the line, we'd still be living in that America. But what we expect out of prosperity has changed. Mostly though, the world has changed. And there is no way the Dream fits in a globalized economy. We could have done everything right, and the Dream would still be moribund.

What I like about my generation is that across the political, social, educational, and economic spectrum, nobody buys into the American Dream anymore. We're more realistic as a result. And hopefully. Hopefully. By the time the majority finally grow up, we'll start making wiser decisions as a result (at least, ceteris paribus)
 
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Russell Street

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Okay, as college loans were already mentioned... have the millennials wised up to the fact that any silly college degree is not a ticket to comfortable white collar middle-class existence?
 

Chorn

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Okay, as college loans were already mentioned... have the millennials wised up to the fact that any silly college degree is not a ticket to comfortable white collar middle-class existence?
I think we/they have realized that by now. Instead, I think we view it as a necessity to avoid a drastically increased possibility of a shitty life. Yeah, you can get by without a degree, but skilled labor is risky, especially in the long run.
 
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