Is dressing well turning into a form of cosplay?

prince nez

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Mods I think we can lock this thread now...

I had planned to go to Derby Day this year, and assembled a very traditional outfit for it. However, at some point I said to myself "as a matter of fact, I have no interest at all in actually attending Spring Racing Carnival events, but I do like the clothes".

So I dressed up and dragged the wife out to do a quick photoshoot.

I guess I'll probably never get to wear this outfit, anywhere, ever. A bit too dressy for weddings (and besides I never get invited to weddings any more, only funerals); and AFAIK the only institution which still insists on morning dress for men is the VRC, and that's only on Derby Day.

Maybe next year. But I have to somehow get excited about horses first.


For cxsackie - some inspiration on where to wear that getup:

To the office (working with children check optional)


To Lygon St


Taking a piss in the woods


To a speed dating event


Someone else’s wedding
65B4C08E-1E34-4DEF-9412-D603080FF1B0.jpeg


...Though of course he should bear in mind that morning dress is simply not formal enough to get a holly jolly mocha and wearing anything less than white tie would result in your balls being stuffed in your mouth and your body being discovered on the outskirts of Tijuana by polica federal.
 

Jan Libourel

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^I seem to recall that white-tie kid at the bottom got the crap beaten out of him by some bullies, staining his white-tie finery with his blood.
 

FriendCustomer

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For cxsackie - some inspiration on where to wear that getup:

To the office (working with children check optional)


To Lygon St


Taking a piss in the woods


To a speed dating event


Someone else’s wedding
View attachment 25887

...Though of course he should bear in mind that morning dress is simply not formal enough to get a holly jolly mocha and wearing anything less than white tie would result in your balls being stuffed in your mouth and your body being discovered on the outskirts of Tijuana by polica federal.
You forgot taco Tuesdays :

C64F2CB8-80B5-4901-BE63-BF5650067DC9.jpeg
 

rdiaz

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Mods I think we can lock this thread now...

I had planned to go to Derby Day this year, and assembled a very traditional outfit for it. However, at some point I said to myself "as a matter of fact, I have no interest at all in actually attending Spring Racing Carnival events, but I do like the clothes".

So I dressed up and dragged the wife out to do a quick photoshoot.

I guess I'll probably never get to wear this outfit, anywhere, ever. A bit too dressy for weddings (and besides I never get invited to weddings any more, only funerals); and AFAIK the only institution which still insists on morning dress for men is the VRC, and that's only on Derby Day.

Maybe next year. But I have to somehow get excited about horses first.


That's a pretty good morning dress getup, something you could wear to a formal wedding here. I hate those top hats though (chistera in spanish). They're what make it costumey even for a wedding.
 

doghouse

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^I seem to recall that white-tie kid at the bottom got the crap beaten out of him by some bullies, staining his white-tie finery with his blood.
Actually I think that was someone else, but I'm totally spacing on who it was. Maybe it was Tibor though.
 

rdiaz

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Dressing well (define "well" anyways) is not cosplay if it's adequate for your job, your social circles, etc.
If you're low class it is sort of costumeish though, which sometimes makes me wonder what the hell am I doing at forums like this.
I do enjoy reading you guys though, don't get me wrong. I like your vintage thirsts and your pinstripe dresses.
 

InstaHate

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No job requires dressing well. You can wear a Men’s Warehouse suit with yellow tie and French blue shirt with square toe loafers for pretty much any job now.
 

viaattovannucci

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Dressing well (define "well" anyways) is not cosplay if it's adequate for your job, your social circles, etc.
If you're low class it is sort of costumeish though, which sometimes makes me wonder what the hell am I doing at forums like this.
I do enjoy reading you guys though, don't get me wrong. I like your vintage thirsts and your pinstripe dresses.
Are all the Spaniards on the forum low-class and/or peasants? Or is it all the Spaniards as such?
 

FriendCustomer

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No job requires dressing well. You can wear a Men’s Warehouse suit with yellow tie and French blue shirt with square toe loafers for pretty much any job now.
Gentlemen, often the finest of dressers, typically never had a job as it is understood today. A good blood line, land and rents, gold in the coffers and perhaps some sort of high administrative or military postion when required were pretty much all. The highest of the merchant class also could be quite well turned out. The rest looked like shit and lived like shit. Capitalism/communism, democracy, the American century and all sorts of other recent inventions changed that. There was a time where this democratization, wealth distribution and mass production did lead to a more widespread part of the popultion being suitably dressed but this lasted at most 50 something years and was finished by the end of the late 1960s, for these drastic advances also held the keys to the destruction of dressing well. As democratization and mass production continued to progress at ever increasing effecencies it was only a matter of time before dressing was debased to its lowest common form to the point where everyone from the nobleman to the serf all basically looked like animals.
 
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rdiaz

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No job requires dressing well. You can wear a Men’s Warehouse suit with yellow tie and French blue shirt with square toe loafers for pretty much any job now.
I just said adequate, not required. If you can wear coat and tie to work because it's adequate, you might well do it decently, it won't be cosplay.
 

doghouse

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Gentlemen, often the finest of dressers, typically never had a job as it is understood today. A good blood line, land and rents, gold in the coffers and perhaps some sort of high administrative or military postion when required were pretty much all. The highest of the merchant class also could be quite well turned out. The rest looked like shit and lived like shit. Capitalism/communism, democracy, the American century and all sorts of other recent inventions changed that. There was a time where this democratization, wealth distribution and mass production did lead to a more widespread part of the popultion being suitably dressed but this lasted at most 50 something years and was finished by the end of the late 1960s, for these drastic advances also held the keys to the destruction of dressing well. As democratization and mass production continued to progress at ever increasing effecencies it was only a matter of time before dressing was debased to its lowest common form to the point where everyone from the nobleman to the serf all basically look like animals.
 

prince nez

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Gentlemen, often the finest of dressers, typically never had a job as it is understood today. A good blood line, land and rents, gold in the coffers and perhaps some sort of high administrative or military postion when required were pretty much all. The highest of the merchant class also could be quite well turned out. The rest looked like shit and lived like shit. Capitalism/communism, democracy, the American century and all sorts of other recent inventions changed that. There was a time where this democratization, wealth distribution and mass production did lead to a more widespread part of the popultion being suitably dressed but this lasted at most 50 something years and was finished by the end of the late 1960s, for these drastic advances also held the keys to the destruction of dressing well. As democratization and mass production continued to progress at ever increasing effecencies it was only a matter of time before dressing was debased to its lowest common form to the point where everyone from the nobleman to the serf all basically look like animals.
Someone recently called me a gentleman, and pointed out that ‘gentlemen are good for nothings’.

It was meant as a put down but I took it for flattery.
 

CesareRomiti

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Not if you're BatEman.


Gentlemen, often the finest of dressers, typically never had a job as it is understood today. A good blood line, land and rents, gold in the coffers and perhaps some sort of high administrative or military postion when required were pretty much all. The highest of the merchant class also could be quite well turned out. The rest looked like shit and lived like shit. Capitalism/communism, democracy, the American century and all sorts of other recent inventions changed that. There was a time where this democratization, wealth distribution and mass production did lead to a more widespread part of the popultion being suitably dressed but this lasted at most 50 something years and was finished by the end of the late 1960s, for these drastic advances also held the keys to the destruction of dressing well. As democratization and mass production continued to progress at ever increasing effecencies it was only a matter of time before dressing was debased to its lowest common form to the point where everyone from the nobleman to the serf all basically looked like animals.
A dandy on the boulevards … strolling at leisure until his Breguet, ever vigilant, reminds him it is midday.
Eugene Onegin, A. S. Pushkin
 

Nashav

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It has been said but dressing well is almost considered a strange thing nowadays since many workplaces have adopted a casual attire dress code. I don’t mind that, but it leads to sloppiness and it clearly does not encourage men to make an effort. It is a very slippery slope. You now either have slobs or tacky overdressed self-appointed gurus now. I do overstate the point a bit, but it does feel like this at times.
Apparently, there are now restaurants that even ask you to remove your tie or you will not be allowed to come in - Soho House is one of them.
 

Jan Libourel

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Apparently, there are now restaurants that even ask you to remove your tie or you will not be allowed to come in - Soho House is one of them.
Oh, there are even restaurants where if you enter them wearing a necktie, the staff will cut the necktie off! Admittedly, there are usually plenty of warnings posted so that no-one will have his necktie hacked off against his will.
 

TheUntermensch

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It has been said but dressing well is almost considered a strange thing nowadays since many workplaces have adopted a casual attire dress code.
Not just dress either. They've adopted a casual - and by extension sloppy - attitude to language, social interaction, communication, and emotion. Especially in the tech industry. It's disgusting. Not only is it wall-to-wall geeks, it's men stuck in their teens.
 

Jan Libourel

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I was reminded of this thread when my wife took her son and me to one of the very best (and costliest) restaurants in our city recently for my birthday. The food was delicious, but the clientele looked appalling. Many of the men were wearing duckbill caps and were even in shorts (on a chilly evening, yet). I had to spend much of the meal looking at the pallid, chubby legs of a hideous fat man in shorts seated across from us. While I can't say his presence altogether ruined the meal for me, it definitely diminished my enjoyment of it.

I have remarked before that when I don't mind eating in the presence of slovenly, low class people, I would just as soon go to Denny's. I find their food quite tasty, and I can get an ample meal for $12 or thereabouts.
 

The Shooman

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I was reminded of this thread when my wife took her son and me to one of the very best (and costliest) restaurants in our city recently for my birthday. The food was delicious, but the clientele looked appalling. Many of the men were wearing duckbill caps and were even in shorts (on a chilly evening, yet). I had to spend much of the meal looking at the pallid, chubby legs of a hideous fat man in shorts seated across from us. While I can't say his presence altogether ruined the meal for me, it definitely diminished my enjoyment of it.

I have remarked before that when I don't mind eating in the presence of slovenly, low class people, I would just as soon go to Denny's. I find their food quite tasty, and I can get an ample meal for $12 or thereabouts.
You sound like Mr Pollock when he used to talk about his restaurant posts. I like it.

My town of Melbourne isn't so bad. It is a cooler climate for over 7 months of the year and people tend to dress better than your area by the sounds of it. A fair amount of people still wear suits to work in the city, but the major problem is that they don't wear a tie and their shoes are cheap ltalian style ones. I also don't see many suits in nice fabrics, most are just basic suits.

I saw the ex premier of Victoria the other day, his pinstripe suit and shoes were remarkable. The fit of his suit was bespoke and the material was top stuff. His shoes were almost as good as mine. It was Ted Baillieu.
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...e1YPaAhXFUbwKHfFjB4EQiR4IsAE&biw=1920&bih=981

We get two types of people in Melbourne. We mainly get slob dressers, but we also get people that are well turned out. As for young Chinese girls, many are well dressed in the top stuff in the city, and there are heaps of them in Melbourne now, the Chinese tell me they all come from wealthy families. They are the ones that keep Gucci and Dior and the rest afloat.

I went to Harrolds one day and I was the only aussie, the rest were basically Chinese. These 18 year old chinese kids were shopping for outfits that cost more than most people's car. See....asians love to announce their status to the world. See...all of this type of thing is new to them so they feel the need to prove they are somebody. Their mindsets are so different to old aussies and europeans....they are the new kids on the block, the money and status is new to them so it excites them and makes them buy top stuff. Many people don't care about status and clothes so they dress like slobs.
 
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Journeyman

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I went to Harrolds one day and I was the only aussie, the rest were basically Chinese. These 18 year old chinese kids were shopping for outfits that cost more than most people's car. See....asians love to announce their status to the world. See...all of this type of thing is new to them so they feel the need to prove they are somebody. Their mindsets are so different to old aussies and europeans....they are the new kids on the block, the money and status is new to them so it excites them and makes them buy top stuff. Many people don't care about status and clothes so they dress like slobs.
The problem, though, is that simply because something is expensive - ridiculously expensive, in the case of many fashion brands - doesn't mean it is "top stuff". It simply means that it is ridiculously expensive.

Many brands that used to make very well-made clothes have turned to casual RTW because it's insanely profitable. Just look at the likes of Saint Lauren or Lanvin. Of course, YSL sold his name and demeaned his product for a while back in the 1970s or 1980s, as the YSL logo turned up on cheap socks and all sorts of things for a period of time.

However, those once-famed haute couture houses now churn out t-shirts, jumpers and jeans in the thousands and charge thousands of dollars for them - even though, with the exception of the name, you could get something virtually identical at your local, low-end department store like K-Mart or Target.

Many people now conflate price with prestige and, unfortunately, also conflate price with quality when that is certainly not often the case.
 

The Shooman

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The problem, though, is that simply because something is expensive - ridiculously expensive, in the case of many fashion brands - doesn't mean it is "top stuff". It simply means that it is ridiculously expensive.

Many brands that used to make very well-made clothes have turned to casual RTW because it's insanely profitable. Just look at the likes of Saint Lauren or Lanvin. Of course, YSL sold his name and demeaned his product for a while back in the 1970s or 1980s, as the YSL logo turned up on cheap socks and all sorts of things for a period of time.

However, those once-famed haute couture houses now churn out t-shirts, jumpers and jeans in the thousands and charge thousands of dollars for them - even though, with the exception of the name, you could get something virtually identical at your local, low-end department store like K-Mart or Target.

Many people now conflate price with prestige and, unfortunately, also conflate price with quality when that is certainly not often the case.
Very true, the prestigious brands are certainly nothing on what they once were.

When l say "the top stuff" l really mean the PERCEIVED top stuff. As Dana Thomas says, luxury has lost it's luster. So much mass produced stuff made now with prestigious name tags sewn onto them. So many buy for name and not for quality these days because they don't know what quality is. So many marketing tricks baffle brains too, people see London this and London that and think all these cheap asian produced clothes are all made in England. Others think Collins Street is highend shopping, but the truth is only a fraction is true highend. So many fancy looking stores in Collins Street selling cheap asian imported clothing. Louis Vuitton is also mass produced and has a common feel to it that is reasonable cheap, and imo none of it is that great. Dana Thomas even talks about seeing kids in sweat shops making for Boss, Dunhill and Versace. The shoo makers also tell me stories of a huge chinese factory making for many of the top brand names. I don't see hardly anything with those prestigious names that l would want to own. Why? Because much of it is mass produced from mediocre materials. But a brand like Tom Ford can be an exception because his clothes are very nice, and John Lobb also makes very good factory shoes, but l suppose those things aren't near as common as the Hugo Boss and Gucci junk they sell everywhere now. Even the pricey Canali brand is really mass produced and not that great imo (don't they make something like 100,000 suits or trousers per week?).

See...it is the perception of luxury that really matters to most people. Why? Because most people wouldn't l know luxury clothing if they fell over it. Why? Because they have never seen or experienced it before. Having a highend brand name makes people feel good, therefore, give people sub par quality and give them the name tag and all are happy.

I am sure everyone here knows these things anyway.
 
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fxh

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Shooey - this was much more interesting that I would have thought. Did you go?


Hermès at Work. A travelling exhibition showcasing the great artisanal work of our favourite Hermès. Executive Vice President and a 6th generation Hermès family member, Guillaume de Seynes was present in Melbourne to launch this excellent two week event. He declined an invitation to dine with the French President to join us instead just shows how special we are to the House for this travelling exhibition.

Hermès at Work focuses on the artisans, the gem maker, the watch maker, the scarf maker and of course the saddle maker. You see, Seynes ancestor Thierry Hermès was a harness maker and in 1837 the tradition was born. Ultimate luxury. As we walked through the exhibition to meet these makers, we were overcome by the history of it, the years and years of this developed craft fuelled by family, love and a real desire for beauty.
by Bec Khoury

Hermès at Work, Melbourne Town Hall, 90-130 Swanston Street, Melbourne 3000
Free admission from 11 am to 7 pm until 17th March, 2018.
 

The Shooman

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Shooey - this was much more interesting that I would have thought. Did you go?


Hermès at Work. A travelling exhibition showcasing the great artisanal work of our favourite Hermès. Executive Vice President and a 6th generation Hermès family member, Guillaume de Seynes was present in Melbourne to launch this excellent two week event. He declined an invitation to dine with the French President to join us instead just shows how special we are to the House for this travelling exhibition.

Hermès at Work focuses on the artisans, the gem maker, the watch maker, the scarf maker and of course the saddle maker. You see, Seynes ancestor Thierry Hermès was a harness maker and in 1837 the tradition was born. Ultimate luxury. As we walked through the exhibition to meet these makers, we were overcome by the history of it, the years and years of this developed craft fuelled by family, love and a real desire for beauty.
by Bec Khoury

Hermès at Work, Melbourne Town Hall, 90-130 Swanston Street, Melbourne 3000
Free admission from 11 am to 7 pm until 17th March, 2018.
I'll be in the city today and was going past that way. I'll check it out this arvo, thanks.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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I was reminded of this thread when my wife took her son and me to one of the very best (and costliest) restaurants in our city recently for my birthday. The food was delicious, but the clientele looked appalling. Many of the men were wearing duckbill caps and were even in shorts (on a chilly evening, yet). I had to spend much of the meal looking at the pallid, chubby legs of a hideous fat man in shorts seated across from us. While I can't say his presence altogether ruined the meal for me, it definitely diminished my enjoyment of it.

I have remarked before that when I don't mind eating in the presence of slovenly, low class people, I would just as soon go to Denny's. I find their food quite tasty, and I can get an ample meal for $12 or thereabouts.
Dining out should be an event. I like the whole expectation of some good nosh, dressing in some serious fabrics with engaging conversation over several courses and good wine. Don't get much chance these days on account of the wife and kids. But I'm always up for a good restaurant. There's plenty of good restaurants around here, with the embassies and various tax free organisations there's lots of restaurants catering to this discerning sector. Crap wine bars, pubs and nightlife though. For the seat of government, The Hague is awful outside of restaurants.

The problem, though, is that simply because something is expensive - ridiculously expensive, in the case of many fashion brands - doesn't mean it is "top stuff". It simply means that it is ridiculously expensive.

Many brands that used to make very well-made clothes have turned to casual RTW because it's insanely profitable. Just look at the likes of Saint Lauren or Lanvin. Of course, YSL sold his name and demeaned his product for a while back in the 1970s or 1980s, as the YSL logo turned up on cheap socks and all sorts of things for a period of time.

However, those once-famed haute couture houses now churn out t-shirts, jumpers and jeans in the thousands and charge thousands of dollars for them - even though, with the exception of the name, you could get something virtually identical at your local, low-end department store like K-Mart or Target.

Many people now conflate price with prestige and, unfortunately, also conflate price with quality when that is certainly not often the case.
They all eventually sold out. I remember Ralph Lauren in the late 80s and very early 90s in the UK, it had serious cache and status as a brand. It was rare and seriously expensive for RTW. It wasn't a sloane ranger thing, like with Barbour, it seemed elusive and only those in the real know and with money were wearing it.

Hell, I remember looking at sports jackets that started at GBP600+ and this was at the time you could buy a Rolex Air King for 800 quid. The shirts where like GBP150 at the time. By the mid 1990s all of that was gone. Now it's just another McArthur Glen Outlet brand of the masses.

It was deliberate of course. Lacoste did the same in the mid-2000's.

Very true, the prestigious brands are certainly nothing on what they once were.

When l say "the top stuff" l really mean the PERCEIVED top stuff. As Dana Thomas says, luxury has lost it's luster. So much mass produced stuff made now with prestigious name tags sewn onto them. So many buy for name and not for quality these days because they don't know what quality is. So many marketing tricks baffle brains too, people see London this and London that and think all these cheap asian produced clothes are all made in England. Others think Collins Street is highend shopping, but the truth is only a fraction is true highend. So many fancy looking stores in Collins Street selling cheap asian imported clothing. Louis Vuitton is also mass produced and has a common feel to it that is reasonable cheap, and imo none of it is that great. Dana Thomas even talks about seeing kids in sweat shops making for Boss, Dunhill and Versace. The shoo makers also tell me stories of a huge chinese factory making for many of the top brand names. I don't see hardly anything with those prestigious names that l would want to own. Why? Because much of it is mass produced from mediocre materials. But a brand like Tom Ford can be an exception because his clothes are very nice, and John Lobb also makes very good factory shoes, but l suppose those things aren't near as common as the Hugo Boss and Gucci junk they sell everywhere now. Even the pricey Canali brand is really mass produced and not that great imo (don't they make something like 100,000 suits or trousers per week?).

See...it is the perception of luxury that really matters to most people. Why? Because most people wouldn't l know luxury clothing if they fell over it. Why? Because they have never seen or experienced it before. Having a highend brand name makes people feel good, therefore, give people sub par quality and give them the name tag and all are happy.

I am sure everyone here knows these things anyway.
The problem is that the same factories are making the same shite for everyone, including the knock-offs. So the exclusive is no longer that at all. The whole designer brand thing has lost its lustre. It was all the rage in the 80s when you would see whole families decked out in Burberry check, but by the mid-90s it was chavsville.
 

Jan Libourel

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Yesterday my neighbors held a memorial service for the husband's brother, who had died recently. The host told me he would be wearing an open-necked shirt, but no tie. I chose to wear my light gray, casually styled suit from W.W. Chan with a dark blue Mercer shirt (collar unbuttoned). I thought this would be dressy enough to be respectful--it was largely a religious service--without being over-dressed. Wrong! Most of the men were wearing garish print shirts (many of them untucked), Jeans and even shorts. When I arrived, I was the only man in a jacket. I decided to walk home and take off my jacket when I saw a man wearing a blazer approaching the event. When I realized I wouldn't be the only man in a jacket, I turned around and went back to my neighbors', still in my suit coat. No other men showed up in jackets, however. And these were not riffraff-y people. I have to wonder if here in "slovenly California" any event is worth dressing up a bit for these days.
 

doghouse

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Yesterday my neighbors held a memorial service for the husband's brother, who had died recently. The host told me he would be wearing an open-necked shirt, but no tie. I chose to wear my light gray, casually styled suit from W.W. Chan with a dark blue Mercer shirt (collar unbuttoned). I thought this would be dressy enough to be respectful--it was largely a religious service--without being over-dressed. Wrong! Most of the men were wearing garish print shirts (many of them untucked), Jeans and even shorts. When I arrived, I was the only man in a jacket. I decided to walk home and take off my jacket when I saw a man wearing a blazer approaching the event. When I realized I wouldn't be the only man in a jacket, I turned around and went back to my neighbors', still in my suit coat. No other men showed up in jackets, however. And these were not riffraff-y people. I have to wonder if here in "slovenly California" any event is worth dressing up a bit for these days.
This happened to me when my wife's step sister passed. It was me and a roughly 80 year old guy in jackets. And I purposely wore something on the casual end, and still was overdressed. I just dont know why someone would purposely look like a bum at something as respectful as a funeral or remembrance. Hell, when one of my employees passed, half the men were in suits, and we are just a bunch of lowly construction workers.
 

InstaHate

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My junior year of college, I wore a black suit with a black shirt and a silver tie to a good friend’s funeral. In my defense, I’m Mexican, so everybody should count themselves lucky it wasn’t a red tie paired with sunglasses.

All subsequent funerals of been charcoal suit, white shirt, and black grenadine.
 

doghouse

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My junior year of college, I wore a black suit with a black shirt and a silver tie to a good friend’s funeral. In my defense, I’m Mexican, so everybody should count themselves lucky it wasn’t a red tie paired with sunglasses.

All subsequent funerals of been charcoal suit, white shirt, and black grenadine.
I mean, just having a suit on puts you in the 1%
 

Great White Snark

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This happened to me when my wife's step sister passed. It was me and a roughly 80 year old guy in jackets. And I purposely wore something on the casual end, and still was overdressed. I just dont know why someone would purposely look like a bum at something as respectful as a funeral or remembrance. Hell, when one of my employees passed, half the men were in suits, and we are just a bunch of lowly construction workers.
You weren’t overdressed everyone else was underdressed.

I went to a wedding once and there was a lad around my age wearing a plain white round neck tie shirt and khakis. That was the inflection point for me at which I noticed in stark view the declining standards of Male dress.

A few years later I went to a Mexican wedding in suit and tie. Bride in traditional white gown. Groom in black jeans, black cowboy boots, black band collar shirt and black leather blazer, with black cowboy hat. After the meal at the reception all his mates piled on to him and ripped his clothes off down to his undercrackers then hoisted him at shoulder height to parade around the room. Classy, eh?
 

InstaHate

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A few years later I went to a Mexican wedding in suit and tie. Bride in traditional white gown. Groom in black jeans, black cowboy boots, black band collar shirt and black leather blazer, with black cowboy hat. After the meal at the reception all his mates piled on to him and ripped his clothes off down to his undercrackers then hoisted him at shoulder height to parade around the room. Classy, eh?
a) I looked fabulous.
b) I don’t recall inviting you.
 
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