Nation of Sissies?

Jan Libourel

Well-Known Member
Messages
684
I read with interest the other day how at the Audubon Zoo in New Orleans a three-year-old jaguar named Valerio broke out of his enclosure--apparently chewing his way through some very heavy gauge steel mesh (tough, formidable animals they are!)--and went on a spree, killing five alpacas, three foxes and emu. A sad and unfortunate incident to be sure, but what got me was that the zoo brought in professional grief counselors for the benefit of the bereft staff. ("Poor Elmira the emu...I just miss her so much. Oh, boo-hoo-hoo!") I suppose all this is of a piece with "safe spaces," "trigger warnings" and whatnot. I come from an era when when people were supposed to get through life's tragedies--great and small--without a need for grief counselors and all that. As in so many ways, that was a better time!
 
Last edited:

Rambo

The Trollest Of Trolls
Moderator
Supporter
Messages
28,432
I read with interest the other day how at the Audubon Zoo in New Orleans a three-year-old jaguar named Valerio broke out of his enclosure--apparently chewing his way through some very heavy gauge steel mesh (tough, formidable animals they are!)--and went of a spree, killing five alpacas, three foxes and emu. A sad and unfortunate incident to be sure, but what got me was that the zoo brought in professional grief counselors for the benefit of the bereft staff. ("Poor Elmira the emu...I just miss her so much. Oh, boo-hoo-hoo!") I suppose all this is of a piece with "safe spaces," "trigger warnings" and whatnot. I come from an era when when people were suppose to get through life's tragedies--great and small--without a need for grief counselors and all that. As in so many ways, that was a better time!
 

Jan Libourel

Well-Known Member
Messages
684
^Hilarious! Although obviously hyperbolic, a lot of truth there. I once commenced my back-page editorial in Handguns magazine with, "To Hell with The Children!" The theme of my editorial was that "Child Protection" was a Trojan Horse for social control freaks and general enemies of freedom, with, of course, a special emphasis on gun control.

If a bunch of little kids had been traumatized by the sight of Valerio the jaguar killing those animals, perhaps some counseling might have been in order, although the little darlings can see plenty of that on innumerable nature programs and YouTube videos these days. However, these were adult zoo staff who were being the beneficiaries of grief counseling. Hey, you're supposed to know animals. They kill and eat each other. Nature is extremely cruel most of the time.
 

LelandJ

Chicken Testicle Enthusiast
Messages
6,029
Nature isn't cruel, but zoos are nothing more than prisons for wild animals. Only slaves can enjoy visiting and watching enslaved life.
 

Thruth

thicker but more pliant than horsehide
Moderator
Supporter
Messages
19,334
Nature isn't cruel, but zoos are nothing more than prisons for wild animals. Only slaves can enjoy visiting and watching enslaved life.
Nature is cruel when you apply human standards to it.
 

Jan Libourel

Well-Known Member
Messages
684
I don't see how zoo animals can be considered "enslaved." "Imprisoned," definitely. Zoo animals don't have to work for a living. Draft animals--now much less common in the developed world--would be much closer equivalents of slaves.
 

InstaHate

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,980
I read with interest the other day how at the Audubon Zoo in New Orleans a three-year-old jaguar named Valerio broke out of his enclosure--apparently chewing his way through some very heavy gauge steel mesh (tough, formidable animals they are!)--and went of a spree, killing five alpacas, three foxes and emu. A sad and unfortunate incident to be sure, but what got me was that the zoo brought in professional grief counselors for the benefit of the bereft staff. ("Poor Elmira the emu...I just miss her so much. Oh, boo-hoo-hoo!") I suppose all this is of a piece with "safe spaces," "trigger warnings" and whatnot. I come from an era when when people were suppose to get through life's tragedies--great and small--without a need for grief counselors and all that. As in so many ways, that was a better time!
TLDR version: Trauma is real and it should be accommodated for. On the other hand, if people keep claiming trauma for minor things, that cheapens what real victims of trauma deal with and also makes less supportive those around them. On yet another hand, I am not familiar with the relationship between trauma and the brain, and so I don’t know if what is legitimately traumatic (i.e. impacts the functioning of the brain) will necessarily be traumatic for another person, and if a personality trait like grit has any impact on something deeply hardwired into our brain. I don’t think anyone was likely legitimately traumatized by the zoo incident. If they were—a neurophysiological process—and not just weakness of character, the likelihood of this being the case is low enough that the costs probably outweigh any benefit.

Full, ranty version:

I’m not as familiar with the PTSD research as I should be (given that two close relatives suffer from it, one from being raped multiple times by her best friend’s father over the course of several years in elementary and middle school; the other from being beaten, closed fist to the head, several times a week by an alcoholic father since she was a toddler), but I know it alters neurological development in instances were trauma occurs during youth. I recently watched Red Sparrow with the former individual, not knowing there was a rape scene. She wasn’t okay for the next couple of days, and if you don’t allow for that for someone who was repeatedly raped from age 9, I dunno what I can say. I suspect you do allow for it, and you are understandably dismissive of people who claim trauma at the drop of the hat (such as in the instance of the zoo, perhaps). If you do consider that person weak for having a two day breakdown from watching a rape scene, I guess I’d invite you to consider how you’d feel if it were your granddaughter whose life—and neurochemistry—was irrevocably scarred. I’m sure you woulda killed the guy (and I’d happily help you with the body), but that wouldn’t fix your granddaughter.

I also know that for a very long time, PTSD in soldiers was dismissed as cowardice, a dismissal which led to the deaths of tens of thousands of soldiers over the last century. PTSD acquired later in life I believe also alters the way the brain responds to a variety of stimuli.

I’m lucky I don’t teach anything likely to trigger an anxiety attack in any of my students. If I taught Lolita, however, I’d absolutely issue a trigger warning. At the start of the class, I’d warn everyone that one of the required readings involves pedophilia, and if that’s going to be an issue to any student due to past trauma, they should reconsider taking the class. I’d also give people a head’s up before beginning the book. Those are the only forms of trigger warnings I’ve encountered on campuses, and they both seem pretty reasonable.

Not everything can be anticipated however. I teach at a university with a not insignificant veteran presence. A couple of years ago, a colleague, a sociologist of religion, was holding a discussion about the different areas of the Islamic world. A veteran in the class became bothered and began insisting it didn’t matter whether a Muslim was West African, Arab, or Southeast Asian, they were all terrorists. The conversation got heated and he ended up crying, screaming, and banging his head on his table until he drew blood. I don’t think the guy was just weak, and thankfully neither did the school, who was able to reach out to his therapist.
 

The Shooman

A Pretty Face
Messages
2,049
I suppose all this is of a piece with "safe spaces," "trigger warnings" and whatnot. I come from an era when when people were suppose to get through life's tragedies--great and small--without a need for grief counselors and all that. As in so many ways, that was a better time!
This type of "modern thinking" is no accident. It's an infiltration designed to divide people against each other, and very limited human rights so eventually people come under totalitarian rule. Of course the leaders of groups have no intention of taking away everyone's rights, but the current movement of thinking is designed to end this way....it's a movement where everyone is deceived.

The link l have in my signiture talk about this `current trend' in great detail and how adhering to traditions set up for human beings doesn't allow for these recent problems of the last 100 years to follow.

Ultimately this will fail. Large numbers of people are waking up. The arguments are unsustainable and go against life and tradition. When things reach an extreme they will turn around, and indeed the public thinking is turning away from the modern thinking.
 
Last edited:

The Shooman

A Pretty Face
Messages
2,049
Three great quotes from the link in my signiture:

"In free societies, the government is also moving toward authoritarianism, with “big government” coming to control almost everything. One of the characteristics of autocratic politics is a strong central government that plans and directs the economy".

+

"A totalitarian government uses “political correctness” as an excuse to deprive people of their freedom of speech and dictate what people can and cannot say. Those who openly denounce sinister policies are dismissed as engaging in “hate speech.” Those who dare to oppose political correctness are marginalized, isolated, in some cases fired, and in extreme instances threatened or attacked".

+

"At the same time, their sphere of management has come to encompass beliefs, families, education, the economy, culture, energy and resources, transportation, communications, travel, and more. From the expansion of the central administrative power to local governmental control over the lives of citizens, numerous laws and judgements, the result has been an all-round expansion of governmental power and unprecedented societal control. For instance, the purchase of health insurance is mandatory, lest people be fined. In the name of the public interest, governments can deprive people of their property and personal rights".
 

Jan Libourel

Well-Known Member
Messages
684
Getting back to the topic of zoos, I think much depends on the animals and how they're kept. Two months ago I attended a wedding at the Palm Desert zoo. I couldn't see much of the zoo, but the wedding was adjacent to a huge paddock housing giraffes, ostriches and kudus. These animals had plenty of room to roam about in. They would always have a sufficiency of food and water and...NO lions, leopards, hyenas, cheetahs, hunting dogs or crocodiles to kill and eat them. Seems like their lives would be much more pleasant than out on the veldt. With more intelligent, inquisitive animals like carnivores and primates, I think the ethical questions become more complex.

Of course, any animal cruelty inherent in zoos pales in comparison to the daily horrors inflicted on domestic animals in the name of food production!
 
Last edited:

LelandJ

Chicken Testicle Enthusiast
Messages
6,029
Surely zoo animals are fed industrial meat, eating tortured diseased life is also torture.

Don't know the average roaming range of wild giraffes but has to be orders magnitude greater than a big zoo.
 

Jan Libourel

Well-Known Member
Messages
684
^I am not sure what "industrial meat" is, but whatever it is, I very much doubt it is fed to giraffes, kudus and ostriches.

Wild giraffes have to search for forage, so of course they must roam. Zoo giraffes don't face that necessity and can take it easy.

I doubt that the carnivores in the zoo would consider themselves "tortured" by having to eat "industrial meat." Most of them are eager eaters of carrion in the wild and not too particular.
 

LelandJ

Chicken Testicle Enthusiast
Messages
6,029
^Poor wildlife if they're fed conventional grains!

If you had to be gawked at by ignorant obese Americans all day in a zoo, that constitutes slavery.
 

Thruth

thicker but more pliant than horsehide
Moderator
Supporter
Messages
19,334
^Poor wildlife if they're fed conventional grains!

If you had to be gawked at by ignorant obese Americans all day in a zoo, that constitutes slavery.
Animals can't be enslaved.
 

Dropbear

Member in Good Standing
Messages
2,669
I come from an era when when people were suppose to get through life's tragedies--great and small--without a need for grief counselors and all that. As in so many ways, that was a better time!
But did they really get through those tradgedies? Or just manifest them in unhealthy ways?

My dad was really scarred by his wartime experiences, but was told to just suck it up and pretend to be like normal civilians.

I didn’t really talk about my own combat experiences until years later, but I think it has helped me integrate into normal society. I was in a veterans ptsd group for several years. We talked about stuff and did some community work. It helped. I’ve been thinking about going back, since my current job is bringing a lot of that stuff back.
 
Top Bottom