On How The Planet's Going To Shit: The Undeniability Of Climate Change

ballmouse

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Oh I don't doubt that with our current government structure such changes would be pretty much impossible (notice how in the US we cannot get anything done at all in the name of checks and balances).

But I'm not sure if can carry out any changes if all countries and people can't even agree on the idea that we should take care of the planet a little better. Once you have that understanding, then the consequences of more responsible living are a little more palatable.
 

Fwiffo

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Regardless of how much of global warming is man made, the suggestions to reduce gas emissions and maintain or improve the ozone layer seem to be good ideas.
I thought the ozone layer was on the mend after we banned CFCs. At least it looked it was until a few years ago when climate change stalled or reversed the progress temporarily.

There is a lot of bad science under pinning much of the restrictive and life diminishing legislation that is coming. You go to a French town or city in the rush hour and your breathing in serious of noxious fumes and isn't CO2 its the diesel fumes i.e. the nitrogen oxides, sulfur and soot. Also the trade-offs are a complete scam e.g. you can fly carbon neutral with us for an extra Euros 20 a flight. Really, how?

The current structure where we pretend to be green by shipping plastics to other countries to dump in the sea, or shifting manufacturing overseas, or pretending that living in a city is green because you ride on a bike, or the EU's ambition to grow the population massively whilst achieving zero net emissions is at best folly at worse, wilful ignorance.
No it isn't. You can continue your lifestyle or offset carbon emissions for 20 quid as long as some bloke on the other side of the planet is running around gnawing on a piece of bamboo with a piece of loin cloth wrapped around his waist. Enough people do that and we can continue enjoying our lifestyle.

The quality of life and population size that exists today is due to fossil fuels. There is yet no viable replacement for a barrel of oil. Cars around town yes, but for aircraft, the shipping industry, plastics, fertilizers and other petrochemicals there are no viable alternatives with the exception of nuclear powered shipping.
Nuclear power. Free energy forever.
 

Rambo

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90% of the category 1 hurricane is still in the ocean and already water in some areas have risen by 35ft.
 

The Shooman

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More new studies suggesting the current climate modelling is highly flawed because it leaves out important variables needed to make a meaningful conclusion.

Bombshell Claim: Scientists Find "Man-made Climate Change Doesn't Exist In Practice"
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-07-11/scientists-finland-japan-man-made-climate-change-doesnt-exist-practice

NO EXPERIMENTAL EVIDENCE FOR THE SIGNIFICANT ANTHROPOGENIC CLIMATE CHANGE
J. KAUPPINEN AND P. MALMI
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.00165.pdf

and lets remember that no-one is an expert to be able to make real climate change predictions because climate involves many areas of expertise needed. My understanding is that most climate/environmental scientists are only experts in one or two areas where-as the topic of climate change involves countless areas of expertise needed, therefore no-one is in a position to make any conclusions that man made climate change is occurring. So many climate scientists disagree and argue with each other because there are too many variables to take into account to really know what is really going on.

The 98% of scientists consensus busted.
I have lots of files on this, but here is a basic explanation why NASA and the 98% of scientists consensus is considered nonsense fluff.
Why Scientists Disagree About Global Warming: Joseph Bast
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMnsyXJH0oI

It goes much deeper down the rabbit hole than this, and really dodgy stuff is going on in the climate change alarmist movement if one looks. I do hope people look at both sides of the argument. I've looked at both sides three times over the years. I was once a man made climate change believer like many are, but when one digs deep and studies communism and it's tactics, and globalisation, one soon sees unsettling things, and one also sees politicised and corrupted science used in the climate movement and the IPCC unwilling to debate in public with skeptics apparently.

Even if you believe in man made climate change, have a look at the other side for a bit of fun. I originally did that and was shocked with what l found. Check out Freeman Dyson and Lord Christopher Monckton for a bit of fun.
 
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Fwiffo

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We should do a poll about climate change and one's age. On this forum alone the skeptics skew older and the fervent believers are probably younger.
 

The Shooman

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We should do a poll about climate change and one's age. On this forum alone the skeptics skew older and the fervent believers are probably younger.
Yes, l think the schools are pushing the climate change ideas quite intensely, but even the older ones are increasingly believing in it because the media push it really hard. I am really surprised so many believe in it, and l wonder how many of those have looked into both sides of the arguments properly. I used to wonder why people were so skeptical of climate change until l started to look into it. The `so called' experts also started the climate change scare in the 80's and said by now the oceans would have covered much of the world. They even started the climate scare in the 1920's and said the ice was melting and the world was in trouble. If you look into things you'll see many examples of where the government employed/funded climate change scientists get called out really badly for their claims and they can't get around it. There are a number of climate change people who refuse to have public debates, including the IPCC members and Al Gore, because they know they'd get flattened in a debate.

The other thing l always wondered about was tree cutting. Instinctively things didn't add up. The so called experts told us 40 years ago that the forests were half gone and by now we would be out of trees. I started to get suspicious of this claim many years ago, and recently l find out that a forestry organisation reveals there are now more trees in the northern hemisphere than 60 years ago. Tree planting programs has likely helped a lot.

Then there is the nuclear scare. I've always bought into that, but it seems like there are some lies behind that too.
 

Fwiffo

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Yes, but isn't tree planting creating homogenous dead sources of lumber and not doing much for the ecosystem? That's what I read. I rather think the older set don't give a toss about the future as long as they enjoy the next 5, 10 or 15 years that they have left. Sadly for the youth who thanks to the miracles of silence will see their 100th birthday have much longer to worry about and therefore are more passionate about it. Humanity is selfish.
 

Rambo

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Yes, l think the schools are pushing the climate change ideas quite intensely
as someone with first hand knowledge of this i can tell you the schools here do not teach this one bit and the section on the environment in regards to science is laughably small. they spend maybe a few days in total in all of their pre-college schooling. varies by region of course but the gist is the same.
The `so called' experts also started the climate change scare in the 80's and said by now the oceans would have covered much of the world.
its coming
They even started the climate scare in the 1920's and said the ice was melting and the world was in trouble.
also coming much sooner than previously thought.

The other thing l always wondered about was tree cutting. Instinctively things didn't add up. The so called experts told us 40 years ago that the forests were half gone and by now we would be out of trees. I started to get suspicious of this claim many years ago, and recently l find out that a forestry organisation reveals there are now more trees in the northern hemisphere than 60 years ago. Tree planting programs has likely helped a lot.
there's been a big push lately in the media here to plant more trees. this is a good thing. the problem is that we aren't reducing tree cutting, so all the captured carbon gets re-released back into the atmosphere. also, we're continuing to deforest the rainforests.

Yes, but isn't tree planting creating homogenous dead sources of lumber and not doing much for the ecosystem? That's what I read. I rather think the older set don't give a toss about the future as long as they enjoy the next 5, 10 or 15 years that they have left. Sadly for the youth who thanks to the miracles of silence will see their 100th birthday have much longer to worry about and therefore are more passionate about it. Humanity is selfish.
baby boomers dont give a fuck because then they'll be dead.
 

Fwiffo

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I meant to say miracles of science. Freudian slip there a bit.

I dragged 300 jewel cases from one county to the city so it can be recycled. Hopefully some third world country accepts it and the babies of today get an extra minute to live because a sea turtle didn't die.
 

Fwiffo

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The greatest long term threats facing humanity

This is depressing. Even after we fix climate change, an ice age will descend on us. And then after that the sun starts peetering out and our biosphere will be destroyed. I almost lost the will to live when I got to the end of the article.
 
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Pimpernel Smith

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The problem of course, is limiting growth and diminishing people's access to cheap energy is no energy revolution at all, it is a retrograde act that will be seen as akin to the return of the Dark Ages:

 

Rambo

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The problem of course, is limiting growth and diminishing people's access to cheap energy is no energy revolution at all, it is a retrograde act that will be seen as akin to the return of the Dark Ages:

so what's the alternative here? we all just burn to death?
 

Pimpernel Smith

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so what's the alternative here? we all just burn to death?
Go with the hard science. Don't get lost in ideology and accept any energy evolution must be more efficient than the one it replaces. Quick fixes are the way to go: clean the oceans of plastics, protect natural habitats, rain forest and the like. Very clean natural gas available and enough for several hundred years. Process fixes to remove the pollution.

Some of the data coming out of European countries is worrying: the Germans have costed Merkel's vision and this is their own figure at Euros 360 per household per month from now until 2050. In the Netherlands the move to less efficient, more costly and more costly to run electrical boilers are costed at circa Euros 14,000 per household that's just the cost to buy and install. These are after tax figures in welfare states were taxes are aleady extremely high. The truth is all these initiatives are going to do is create crony capitalism for the well placed and a massive burden and reduction in the quality of life and access to travel for the rest of the population.

According to the news here we've been in a heat wave, the so called plume. I've been getting emails from Japanese colleagues asking if we're coping with the heat. The news reports temperatures of over 40C and yet, I haven't seen anything over 34C. In fact, other than a couple of days, it's been a repeat of 2011 with normal to below average summer temperatures (17-24) and no blue sky days. Where are these taking these temperatures on the balconies of concrete buildings in the middle of the city?

The current trajectory will lead us to this, a globe trotting jet-set, immaculate and elite slapping each other on the back on how environmentally aware they are, whilst pointing to the rest of us with disdain and eager for the day we can't go anywhere:

 
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Fwiffo

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Climate change made Europe's July heat wave up to 3 degrees Celsius hotter, scientists say

"The scorching heat wave that broke records across Europe last month was made more likely, more intense and up to three degrees Celsius hotter by climate change, a study has found. Scientists found that the event would have been a once-in-a-millennium occurrence without a changing climate, but was made up to 100 times more probable because of the process. The UK, Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands all recorded their highest temperatures ever in the July heat wave, with the mercury topping 40 degrees in much of mainland Europe."
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Climate change made Europe's July heat wave up to 3 degrees Celsius hotter, scientists say

"The scorching heat wave that broke records across Europe last month was made more likely, more intense and up to three degrees Celsius hotter by climate change, a study has found. Scientists found that the event would have been a once-in-a-millennium occurrence without a changing climate, but was made up to 100 times more probable because of the process. The UK, Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands all recorded their highest temperatures ever in the July heat wave, with the mercury topping 40 degrees in much of mainland Europe."
Strange because no one I know in Belgium, Germany or the Netherlands experienced temperatures of 40C. Here it was 34C the same as last year and last year was more sustained 28-30+C for three months solid of blue sky days. A couple of days heat wave here that's all the rest of the time you've been lucky to get 24C.
 

Fwiffo

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Strange because no one I know in Belgium, Germany or the Netherlands experienced temperatures of 40C. Here it was 34C the same as last year and last year was more sustained 28-30+C for three months solid of blue sky days. A couple of days heat wave here that's all the rest of the time you've been lucky to get 24C.
Clearly you weren't the "scientists" cited in the article, or you live in a microclimate bubble.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Clearly you weren't the "scientists" cited in the article, or you live in a microclimate bubble.
I believe it's fake news, there was a mini-heat wave all of a couple of days, but not as sustained as last year. My mucca's balcony reached 47C last year, so that's where I believe they're taking the temperatures. The grass is as green as can be.
 

Fwiffo

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https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/climate-change-overfishing-could-lead-higher-mercury-levels-fish-n1040211

"Warmer water appears to be one of those contributing factors, the researchers reported Wednesday in Nature.

Using three decades of data on methylmercury concentrations in the ecosystem, sediment and seawater from the Gulf of Maine, Schartup and her colleagues were able to construct a model and investigate the causes for changes in mercury levels in the Atlantic cod and dogfish living there.

Because the Maine waters have been overfished, cod and dogfish were forced to change the types of prey they consumed. Cod ended up devouring more lobsters and other large invertebrates, which are low in mercury, while the dogfish went for more squid and other cephalopods, which tend to be high in mercury. Unsurprisingly, the cod ended up with lower mercury levels than the dogfish."
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Welcome to the blackout, literally in the UK as the offshore wind farm was given priority over the gas power station and when they went back, the gas was already off line. This is the future:


Interestingly, I'm involved in one of the latest bio-mass projects in the UK. Many of the previous ones have been disaster in terms of design, engineering, to the engineering construction companies and onto the operational companies. This time, it might be different with overseas technology and contractors. They're desperate to get it operational though, I've never seen such focus on expediting deliverables. Likely they already know the capacity of the grid is insufficient to support an industrialized economy. Which may well be the plan, ensure the UK can't support an industrialized infrastructure. Sounds about right.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Rambo

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More spin: you could do a lot of things by appropriating 46% of the land mass in Europe. Maybe feed the entire world until 2050.

There should be an energy mix, relying 100% on windfarms is madness.
Well the study does say windfarms and solar and it doesnt say they have to use all that land to achieve those goals
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Well the study does say windfarms and solar and it doesnt say they have to use all that land to achieve those goals
No, but it does state that if they put 46% percent of the land in Europe to use as windfarms they would have enough energy to power the whole world until 2050. That's where their heads are at.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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One takes great pleasure and financial reward that the political class takes its instructions on the climate not from the hard sciences, but a 16 year old drop out who literally sees C02 that is invisible to the rest of us. My Eco and Bio businesses are already reaping the rewards. Every energy business is positioning themselves for the biggest government handout ever. Thank you!
 

Pimpernel Smith

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It's the sinister people and groups behind her I'm interested in getting at. She's just a marionette.

How sinister do you need to be to wheel out propaganda tactics last seen in Nazi Germany: the blonde, pigtail virgin child who you cannot critique because of her purity?

In this case, the immaculate environmental child who has raised herself above all science and all reproach in her visionary ability to see C02. Invisible to mere mortals.

Welcome to a world where an environmental activist and visionary can drop-out of education and all science, to deliver the future on the strength of her marketing spin. A world where hard science falls silent in the face of Saint Greta. The anointed one.

These people to damage to the true cause of environmental protection. They focus on C02 emission and miss the real deal where we can make a difference. But the game is to funnel money into St Greta's sponsors, which are working very hard, for people like me. Yes, they are. They're laughing at you because it's one big scam to funnel the biggest global government hand out ever into crony capitalists.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Infrastructure projects and OAP nursing homes put on hold due to having to use lorries in their construction.


A good alternative, instead of using lorries and diesal spewing cranes and the like, why not mobilize some Worker Brigades?
 
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