Sartorial Stories In The News

Kingstonian

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So the take home lesson is NEVER buy a second hand pair pf Ambrosi trousers.
Sounds like Seamus Moores cautionary song 'The second hand trousers I bought in Belcoo' :-

The material was fine. Twas made up with great taste.
They were long in the leg and tight in the waist
There was a split in the middle to let the quare fella through.
They were some bloody trousers I bought in Belcoo.

The fella that had them before, sure he wore them behind.
There was a hole in the arse to let out the wind.
I got diarrhoea. It drove me cuckoo.
They were some bloody trousers I bought in Belcoo

I hadn't them a week til I got boils on my legs
I swear to God they were as big as duck eggs
They were orange on top and the bottom was blue
In them bloody ole trousers I bought in Belcoo.

The wife didn't like them, of that there's no doubt
And I know that she blames them for being up the spout.
Says she you're like something from out of the zoo
In them second hand trousers you bought in Belcoo

Toora Lay, Toora Loo
In them second hand trousers I bought in Belcoo
 

fxh

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The New Uniform of White Supremacy

Anadolu Agency/Getty Images
BY CAM WOLF
6 days ago
In Charlottesville, demonstrators turned out in polos and khakis. But their seemingly innocuous clothes spoke volumes.

When the Ku Klux Klan rebooted itself as a largely white supremacist outfit, starting in 1915, it took on the now-signature white robes for two reasons: to intimidate, but also to hide. They were cowards, afraid recognition would upend their lives, so they went to great lengths to obscure their faces and bodies. "They had no desire to be exposed in any kind of way," explains Patricia A. Turner, the dean and vice provost of undergraduate education at UCLA, who has written several books on African-American culture.

But when demonstrators assembled in Charlottesville, Virginia, last weekend to protest the removal of a statue of Confederate general Robert E. Lee, those white robes were few and far between. To be sure: Markers of white supremacy such as Nazi and Confederate flags were on display. But on the march, it looked as if an army of JC Penney mannequins had become sentient. Scores of white men dressed in crisp polos and khakis, turning the uniform of business-casual blasé into a white-hot statement. "What we see in a lot of images coming out of Charlottesville are these very clean-cut-looking young men," says Susan Campbell Bartoletti, the author of They Called Themselves the K.K.K.: The Birth of an American Terrorist Group and Hitler Youth: Growing Up in Hitler's Shadow. "They're putting the face of a gentleman on values that are, in my opinion, anything but gentlemanly."

A weekend that exposed the seams and rot of American life in so many other ways revealed this, too: That the work of white supremacy is no longer performed by cloak-and-dagger vigilantes. It's done in broad daylight. And it's done by people (mostly young, white men) wearing the most all-American clothes they can imagine: polos and khakis. The uniform of white hate is now average, mundane, the stuff of everyday American life. It is haunting.

Tracking the evolution of what's worn by white supremacist groups—specifically the KKK—shows that they have reached what looks like the end stage of a longterm image overhaul. Racism is inextricable from the character of past- and current-day America, but the election of Donald Trump validated a group that used to feel the need to remain hidden. Accordingly, the clothing of white hate has changed: It, too, has become more mainstream.

The story begins in 1865, when the Klan was first formed. Early members wore stilts under their robes to make themselves appear nine feet tall. "The costumes made them larger than life," says Bartoletti, "[and] made them appear to be supernatural, and some of their tricks were to seem as though they had magical talents as well." Turner adds that "[the KKK] played on the notion that slaves were afraid of ghosts and spirits, and so they tended to try to disguise themselves in some way that would add a level of intimidation to what they were about and be specters, ghost-like in appearance."

The next wave of the Klan, which appeared in 1915, donned the white robes and pointed hats that we mostly associate with the KKK today. Over time, though, what's worn by the different nodes in the network of white supremacist groups has grown subtle. Obvious robes became small signifiers: things like a shaved head, Doc Martens, suspenders, and a litany of tattoos that made it clear the wearer was part of a certain group. These marks were subtle, but they were still outside the norm. If you saw a guy with a shaved head wearing suspenders and Doc Martens threaded with white or red laces, you knew you'd likely found a white supremacist goon.

Today the signifiers are sanded down even more. White supremacy groups like the Proud Boys have attempted to mark Fred Perry polos (the brand strongly denounced the group), which have long been associated with skinheads, as their own. The wide-scale adoption of khakis and polos marks the culmination of a sustained attempt by white supremacists to rebrand themselves: from the other to the mainstream. But what we saw in Charlottesville this weekend goes further.


COURTESY OF SUSAN CAMPBELL BARTOLETTI
In 2006, while researching for her book, Bartoletti attended a Klan rally, or "congress." Before the start of the weekend, she was sent a list of rules. The third directive dealt with clothing: "We encourage casual dress such as worn in most offices or to church… Please no camoflauge [sic]clothing or 'Biker' attire." The sheet also barred foul language and weapons. "If I didn't know I was at the Klan meeting, they would have seemed like very ordinary people that I would see in the supermarket where I live," says Bartoletti.

This reorientation of the Klan is about both dress and ideology. While the original iterations of the Klan were founded on hate, the group now claims to be about a twisted sort of "love"—"love for the white race," Bartoletti explains. This is at least part of what's influencing white supremacists' newfound willingness to show their faces to cameras. "If they believe their purpose is around a promotion of whiteness and the goodness of whiteness... You could make the case that there's no shame or fear that comes from that, that you should be willing to own that and be willing to be public with it," says Turner.

Last year, New York magazine's style site The Cut wrote an excellent story about the ways the alt-right uses style as a propaganda tool, with alt-right figures like Richard Spencer adopting so-called "dapper" style to add a veneer of respectability to deeply racist arguments. But the khaki-wearing demonstrators in Charlottesville weren't trying to be fashionable—they were trying to blend in. And in doing so, they've turned the blandest items in our closets into a dog whistle. Is your neighbor wearing a polo and khakis because he's a style-agnostic dad? Or is he just actively supporting the creation of a white ethno-state?

It's also worth pointing out that the new white supremacist uniform bears an uncanny resemblance to President Trump's off-duty style. There's not much visible difference between a demonstrator in a Make America Great Again hat, a white polo, and khakis and what the president bulges out of when he's hitting the links.

Once these groups come into power, Bartoletti suggests, they no longer feel the need to hide. Especially not when today's white supremacy groups have a president who takes three times as long to repudiate their beliefs as he does a critical Saturday Night Live skit, a president whose response to last weekend's events was condemned by pretty much everyone but white supremacist sites like the Daily Stormer.

Toward the end of our conversation, Bartoletti points out a particularly chilling antecedent to the uniforms seen in Charlottesville. She directs me to Nazi propaganda: posters of clean-cut white men towering over people and, in one, shoveling aside presumably Jewish and black men. Several posters show the Nazis dressed in white button-ups and khakis. The resemblance is haunting. "And they didn't hide their faces either, did they?" Bartoletti asks rhetorically.


Hulton Archive/Getty Images

Pictorial Press Ltd/Alamy

Eddie Gerald/Alamy
This uniform is repeated across at least two other Nazi propaganda posters I encountered. While the Nazi rise began under the same cover of darkness the KKK once sought out, these posters are a stark reminder of what it became, the ruling power. The group stepped out of the shadows, endured the media's mockery, and emerged with a carefully manicured image. The posters don't show uniformed Nazis—they show a twisted kind of average guy.

Until very recently, khakis and polos reminded us of suburban dads and prep-school uniforms. Now white hate groups have added themselves to this all-American list. "They want to show that they are standing for what they believe is the true American," says Bartoletti. They want you to believe that they're the same people we go to church with on Sundays (even though the self-professed Christian KKK has been denounced by every major Christian denomination).

For years, white supremacists dressed to set themselves apart, to hide and to scare. Charlottesville showed us that the most sinister evolution of their uniform, and the hate it symbolizes, isn't about fear and ghosts and standing apart. It's meant to achieve inclusiveness and assimilation. It means that hate doesn't need to live underground when it can blend in right next door.
 

Lord Buckley

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The New Uniform of White Supremacy

Anadolu Agency/Getty Images
BY CAM WOLF
6 days ago
In Charlottesville, demonstrators turned out in polos and khakis. But their seemingly innocuous clothes spoke volumes.

When the Ku Klux Klan rebooted itself as a largely white supremacist outfit, starting in 1915, it took on the now-signature white robes for two reasons: to intimidate, but also to hide. They were cowards, afraid recognition would upend their lives, so they went to great lengths to obscure their faces and bodies. "They had no desire to be exposed in any kind of way," explains Patricia A. Turner, the dean and vice provost of undergraduate education at UCLA, who has written several books on African-American culture.

But when demonstrators assembled in Charlottesville, Virginia, last weekend to protest the removal of a statue of Confederate general Robert E. Lee, those white robes were few and far between. To be sure: Markers of white supremacy such as Nazi and Confederate flags were on display. But on the march, it looked as if an army of JC Penney mannequins had become sentient. Scores of white men dressed in crisp polos and khakis, turning the uniform of business-casual blasé into a white-hot statement. "What we see in a lot of images coming out of Charlottesville are these very clean-cut-looking young men," says Susan Campbell Bartoletti, the author of They Called Themselves the K.K.K.: The Birth of an American Terrorist Group and Hitler Youth: Growing Up in Hitler's Shadow. "They're putting the face of a gentleman on values that are, in my opinion, anything but gentlemanly."

A weekend that exposed the seams and rot of American life in so many other ways revealed this, too: That the work of white supremacy is no longer performed by cloak-and-dagger vigilantes. It's done in broad daylight. And it's done by people (mostly young, white men) wearing the most all-American clothes they can imagine: polos and khakis. The uniform of white hate is now average, mundane, the stuff of everyday American life. It is haunting.

Tracking the evolution of what's worn by white supremacist groups—specifically the KKK—shows that they have reached what looks like the end stage of a longterm image overhaul. Racism is inextricable from the character of past- and current-day America, but the election of Donald Trump validated a group that used to feel the need to remain hidden. Accordingly, the clothing of white hate has changed: It, too, has become more mainstream.

The story begins in 1865, when the Klan was first formed. Early members wore stilts under their robes to make themselves appear nine feet tall. "The costumes made them larger than life," says Bartoletti, "[and] made them appear to be supernatural, and some of their tricks were to seem as though they had magical talents as well." Turner adds that "[the KKK] played on the notion that slaves were afraid of ghosts and spirits, and so they tended to try to disguise themselves in some way that would add a level of intimidation to what they were about and be specters, ghost-like in appearance."

The next wave of the Klan, which appeared in 1915, donned the white robes and pointed hats that we mostly associate with the KKK today. Over time, though, what's worn by the different nodes in the network of white supremacist groups has grown subtle. Obvious robes became small signifiers: things like a shaved head, Doc Martens, suspenders, and a litany of tattoos that made it clear the wearer was part of a certain group. These marks were subtle, but they were still outside the norm. If you saw a guy with a shaved head wearing suspenders and Doc Martens threaded with white or red laces, you knew you'd likely found a white supremacist goon.

Today the signifiers are sanded down even more. White supremacy groups like the Proud Boys have attempted to mark Fred Perry polos (the brand strongly denounced the group), which have long been associated with skinheads, as their own. The wide-scale adoption of khakis and polos marks the culmination of a sustained attempt by white supremacists to rebrand themselves: from the other to the mainstream. But what we saw in Charlottesville this weekend goes further.


COURTESY OF SUSAN CAMPBELL BARTOLETTI
In 2006, while researching for her book, Bartoletti attended a Klan rally, or "congress." Before the start of the weekend, she was sent a list of rules. The third directive dealt with clothing: "We encourage casual dress such as worn in most offices or to church… Please no camoflauge [sic]clothing or 'Biker' attire." The sheet also barred foul language and weapons. "If I didn't know I was at the Klan meeting, they would have seemed like very ordinary people that I would see in the supermarket where I live," says Bartoletti.

This reorientation of the Klan is about both dress and ideology. While the original iterations of the Klan were founded on hate, the group now claims to be about a twisted sort of "love"—"love for the white race," Bartoletti explains. This is at least part of what's influencing white supremacists' newfound willingness to show their faces to cameras. "If they believe their purpose is around a promotion of whiteness and the goodness of whiteness... You could make the case that there's no shame or fear that comes from that, that you should be willing to own that and be willing to be public with it," says Turner.

Last year, New York magazine's style site The Cut wrote an excellent story about the ways the alt-right uses style as a propaganda tool, with alt-right figures like Richard Spencer adopting so-called "dapper" style to add a veneer of respectability to deeply racist arguments. But the khaki-wearing demonstrators in Charlottesville weren't trying to be fashionable—they were trying to blend in. And in doing so, they've turned the blandest items in our closets into a dog whistle. Is your neighbor wearing a polo and khakis because he's a style-agnostic dad? Or is he just actively supporting the creation of a white ethno-state?

It's also worth pointing out that the new white supremacist uniform bears an uncanny resemblance to President Trump's off-duty style. There's not much visible difference between a demonstrator in a Make America Great Again hat, a white polo, and khakis and what the president bulges out of when he's hitting the links.

Once these groups come into power, Bartoletti suggests, they no longer feel the need to hide. Especially not when today's white supremacy groups have a president who takes three times as long to repudiate their beliefs as he does a critical Saturday Night Live skit, a president whose response to last weekend's events was condemned by pretty much everyone but white supremacist sites like the Daily Stormer.

Toward the end of our conversation, Bartoletti points out a particularly chilling antecedent to the uniforms seen in Charlottesville. She directs me to Nazi propaganda: posters of clean-cut white men towering over people and, in one, shoveling aside presumably Jewish and black men. Several posters show the Nazis dressed in white button-ups and khakis. The resemblance is haunting. "And they didn't hide their faces either, did they?" Bartoletti asks rhetorically.


Hulton Archive/Getty Images

Pictorial Press Ltd/Alamy

Eddie Gerald/Alamy
This uniform is repeated across at least two other Nazi propaganda posters I encountered. While the Nazi rise began under the same cover of darkness the KKK once sought out, these posters are a stark reminder of what it became, the ruling power. The group stepped out of the shadows, endured the media's mockery, and emerged with a carefully manicured image. The posters don't show uniformed Nazis—they show a twisted kind of average guy.

Until very recently, khakis and polos reminded us of suburban dads and prep-school uniforms. Now white hate groups have added themselves to this all-American list. "They want to show that they are standing for what they believe is the true American," says Bartoletti. They want you to believe that they're the same people we go to church with on Sundays (even though the self-professed Christian KKK has been denounced by every major Christian denomination).

For years, white supremacists dressed to set themselves apart, to hide and to scare. Charlottesville showed us that the most sinister evolution of their uniform, and the hate it symbolizes, isn't about fear and ghosts and standing apart. It's meant to achieve inclusiveness and assimilation. It means that hate doesn't need to live underground when it can blend in right next door.
Very fake news indeed.

This is truly sinister: "It's also worth pointing out that the new white supremacist uniform bears an uncanny resemblance to President Trump's off-duty style. There's not much visible difference between a demonstrator in a Make America Great Again hat, a white polo, and khakis and what the president bulges out of when he's hitting the links...Is your neighbor wearing a polo and khakis because he's a style-agnostic dad? Or is he just actively supporting the creation of a white ethno-state?" That is trying to conjure up a mood of paranoia and legitimize the ongoing assualt by Antifida types.

What unform should the suburban dad, or golf player sport instead of chinos and a polo? Lest he be j'accused as a member of the KKK or patriachy? This seems more appropriate to me:

Hillary Mao Suit 01_zpsrydizlzn.jpg
 

TheUntermensch

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I know exactly what the American press means by "the suburbs". Just making the point that over in socialist Europe, they built government-sponsored cheap housing where the suburbs should have been, so the dregs of society invaded the suburbs too. The previous occupants of the suburbs have all fled to the countryside, or fled overseas to places like Switzerland.
 

Lord Buckley

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I know exactly what the American press means by "the suburbs". Just making the point that over in socialist Europe, they built government-sponsored cheap housing where the suburbs should have been, so the dregs of society invaded the suburbs too. The previous occupants of the suburbs have all fled to the countryside, or fled overseas to places like Switzerland.
There's a bit of that, but then you have the middle class/stockbroker belt version as you have in parts of the UK and here in The Netherlands. Where anybody who can....gets out. Of course, Paris is different, there they like to be surrounded by chaos, disorder and the Sharia compliant gang zones that are the suburbs. The downside of that, is that eventually they will have to break out to survive, we're already ahead on that curve.

But the time will come, as the chance of a soft landing has been missed, when we all have to fight.
 

doghouse

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I know exactly what the American press means by "the suburbs". Just making the point that over in socialist Europe, they built government-sponsored cheap housing where the suburbs should have been, so the dregs of society invaded the suburbs too. The previous occupants of the suburbs have all fled to the countryside, or fled overseas to places like Switzerland.
Oh, that's happening here too, but on it's own without subsidized housing. Look to Ferguson in St Louis for a notable example. Suburban dwellers have all moved back to the city proper.
 

Scherensammler

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^ Is that a trick question??
Not at all. If you can pay TopTop™ $, € or £ Rory Duffy will teach you how to do it. And all that in only a few weeks time.
http://roryduffybespoke.com/academy-main/

Having trained with the founders of Savile Row, won the highest accolade the tailoring trade has to offer the Golden Shear Award, Rory immigrated to America and for five years serviced the elite of New York city with finely tailored suits.
 

Kingstonian

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There's a bit of that, but then you have the middle class/stockbroker belt version as you have in parts of the UK and here in The Netherlands. Where anybody who can....gets out. Of course, Paris is different, there they like to be surrounded by chaos, disorder and the Sharia compliant gang zones that are the suburbs.
When I was at school, 'banlieue' did not have perjorative connotations.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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fxh

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Those comments are pretty inane some of them.You can get a half decent suit for the price of a pair of jeans and a hoodie. And bloke who say ties are uncomfortable are just idiots. It's about respect and honouring the occasion, making an effort. Wearing what is essentially gardening clothes to a big night out at the opera is just ignorant, self centred and boorish. No one is ever suggestiing you can't wear whatever you want but if it's the same outfit you lay on your overstuffed couch eating pizza and scratching your balls while watching reality tv then what you are saying is that nothing is more important than anything else. Nothing matters except the comfort of your floppy fat stomach.
 

Rambo

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Thruth

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Ibex Wear who along with Icebreaker and Smartwool formed the top end of merino wool outdoor wear is going out of business.

Had been having trouble over the last year.

on November 6 and then November 7th but they said they would not be liquidating

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.snewsnet.com/.amp/news/ibex-closing-down

This morning's email heralds the liquidation of the company

IMG_0011.PNG
 

Fwiffo

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I read that. A business suit promotes egalitarianism? Is that because we can't tell the difference when someone comes to work in a $100 Topman suit trousers unhealed, and matching $50 Zara 'dress' shoes made in India? If anything it accentuates differences in background and one's means.
 

viaattovannucci

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I read that. A business suit promotes egalitarianism? Is that because we can't tell the difference when someone comes to work in a $100 Topman suit trousers unhealed, and matching $50 Zara 'dress' shoes made in India? If anything it accentuates differences in background and one's means.
I think the point of "sartorial stories in the news" is often to point out how out of touch we are in general with the mainstream (or how clueless the journalists are, depending on your vantage point). In this article, I would only endorse a single statement:

Director of the Fashion Institute of Technology Museum in New York, Valerie Steele, believes the suit retains its enduring power “because I think it connotes modernity." She says: "I think that it looks modern, it looks efficient. Some would say it is functional, I think it’s more a case of: it carries connotations of modernity and functionalism and status.”
 

MES

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I suspect that most people genuinely wouldn't be able to tell the difference, Fwiffo, and so it is semi-egalitarian. Same thing with school uniforms - at my (state) school everyone had the same black plastic trews and navy wool-blend blazer. I'm sure there are some who bought fancier shirts and trousers but nobody could really tell. Interestingly, I read a post by some SF member recently who said that at his (presumably private, or at least posh) school it was explicitly forbidden to have a bespoke blazer! That simply wouldn't have crossed the mind of any parent at my school, I believe - I may be totally wrong as it was a very, very mixed catchment area - you simple were given a very large jacket at 14 and grew into it.

Similarly, when I went to uni the salesman at M&S pushed my parents to get me an enormous suit with a mistaken expectation that I would grow into it. Now that I look back at dinner pictures, with what I know, I can see that it was a terrible fit and that some people around me clearly had very well-fitting (quite likely bespoke) clothes. At the time I didn't realise and felt no less equal to those people because we were all still in our lounge suits at dinners together.

Of course to them I probably looked like the middle class pleb that I am.
 

rdiaz

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I read that. A business suit promotes egalitarianism? Is that because we can't tell the difference when someone comes to work in a $100 Topman suit trousers unhealed, and matching $50 Zara 'dress' shoes made in India? If anything it accentuates differences in background and one's means.
those topman dudes, they haven't discovered good respoke

I can assure you a 50/50 wool/poly blend jacket that is well cut and fit will look thousands of times better than another made of fine tissue but badly fitted and styled.

Punks have yelled at me on the streets thinking I'm some sort of high class dude when actually they might be making more money than me with their begging. And I see diplomatics and politicians at work, who dress like crap. So not sure it has to do with background and means.
 
Last edited:

Pimpernel Smith

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I read that. A business suit promotes egalitarianism? Is that because we can't tell the difference when someone comes to work in a $100 Topman suit trousers unhealed, and matching $50 Zara 'dress' shoes made in India? If anything it accentuates differences in background and one's means.
You have to remember with the BBC News is that it's always going to be on message, either through blatant opinion, or subtle omission. Even in that innocent piece we get the historical revisionism that because British women started to do male jobs during WWII they started to wear masculine clothes with skirts to remind us that gender is fluid.

I suspect that most people genuinely wouldn't be able to tell the difference, Fwiffo, and so it is semi-egalitarian. Same thing with school uniforms - at my (state) school everyone had the same black plastic trews and navy wool-blend blazer. I'm sure there are some who bought fancier shirts and trousers but nobody could really tell. Interestingly, I read a post by some SF member recently who said that at his (presumably private, or at least posh) school it was explicitly forbidden to have a bespoke blazer! That simply wouldn't have crossed the mind of any parent at my school, I believe - I may be totally wrong as it was a very, very mixed catchment area - you simple were given a very large jacket at 14 and grew into it.

Similarly, when I went to uni the salesman at M&S pushed my parents to get me an enormous suit with a mistaken expectation that I would grow into it. Now that I look back at dinner pictures, with what I know, I can see that it was a terrible fit and that some people around me clearly had very well-fitting (quite likely bespoke) clothes. At the time I didn't realise and felt no less equal to those people because we were all still in our lounge suits at dinners together.

Of course to them I probably looked like the middle class pleb that I am.
My first suit was this grey prince of wales double breasted thing which I wore for my uncle's third wedding with a pair of brown monks. The suit was from Next as I remember, awful thing, there's a photo somewhere with me wearing it. Had as much silhouette as a bad of spuds.

Our school uniform had a terrible purple tie with a white stripe down the middle, fortunately we only had to wear it to the end of the third year at secondary school. Then it was what you liked.
 

doghouse

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I read that. A business suit promotes egalitarianism? Is that because we can't tell the difference when someone comes to work in a $100 Topman suit trousers unhealed, and matching $50 Zara 'dress' shoes made in India? If anything it accentuates differences in background and one's means.
People having been positing that the suit is the most democratic garment for at least 100 years now. Even our dear Pimpernel Smith Pimpernel Smith knows that.
 

Fwiffo

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I think the point of "sartorial stories in the news" is often to point out how out of touch we are in general with the mainstream
We're only out of touch with the mainstream on sartorial matters? You did beat me to the punch. I was going to post that and found you already did.

I suspect that most people genuinely wouldn't be able to tell the difference, Fwiffo, and so it is semi-egalitarian.
We're equal in our cluelessness? Is this the same as common sense isn't common?

I can assure you a 50/50 wool/poly blend jacket that is well cut and fit will look thousands of times better than another made of fine tissue but badly fitted and styled.
Oh dear God, are we re-opening that thread from that other forum about some bloke who bought a fitted suit from ...Sears or something and it's better than some novice who unwittingly gets deceived by some bespoke tailor?

The suit was from Next as I remember, awful thing, there's a photo somewhere with me wearing it. Had as much silhouette as a bad of spuds.
Next - brings back memories. Why is the UK home to all this fast fashion?

People having been positing that the suit is the most democratic garment for at least 100 years now. Even our dear Pimpernel Smith Pimpernel Smith knows that.
The suit raises people up to the bourgeoisie or it reduces the rest of us including his lordship's morning dress and top hat down to the rabble?
 

rdiaz

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Oh dear God, are we re-opening that thread from that other forum about some bloke who bought a fitted suit from ...Sears or something and it's better than some novice who unwittingly gets deceived by some bespoke tailor?
Don't get me wrong. Most cheap RTW is cut like crap and will look horrible on anyone. I was just trying to say it's not all about the money, though it will of course help a lot.
 

viaattovannucci

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We're only out of touch with the mainstream on sartorial matters? You did beat me to the punch. I was going to post that and found you already did.



We're equal in our cluelessness? Is this the same as common sense isn't common?



Oh dear God, are we re-opening that thread from that other forum about some bloke who bought a fitted suit from ...Sears or something and it's better than some novice who unwittingly gets deceived by some bespoke tailor?



Next - brings back memories. Why is the UK home to all this fast fashion?



The suit raises people up to the bourgeoisie or it reduces the rest of us including his lordship's morning dress and top hat down to the rabble?
The painkillers should be kicking in any time now. . .
 
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