The All-Inclusive Shoe & Boot Thread

fxh

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well, this is an interesting observation, at least to me. in my book the two pull tabs put them far away from a sophisticated appearance. ymmv.
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R M Williams boot was made to be a boot for workers and used in real work. It had some models that were good to wear dressed up. The pull tabs were good to pull on the boot with elastic sides.
 

The Ernesto

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I can’t vouch for their explanation of the downfall. I don’t know of the shop personally. And I suspect it may be more complex than their explanation.
The claims that "There’s no one walking on Sydney Road'' is such demonstrable bollocks I'm shocked it got left in as a quote. Parts of Sydney Road are heaving, probably more so than at any period in the past 20 years.
 

walker

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R M Williams boot was made to be a boot for workers and used in real work. It had some models that were good to wear dressed up. The pull tabs were good to pull on the boot with elastic sides.
exactly, that's why I was surprised about the expression sophisticated in the context. tbh, I never got around to buy a pair, but a friend of mine swears by them and he found a good supplier in europe, who offers excellent service with a decent upcharge only.
 

The Shooman

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I have been watching a number of Bedo's Leatherworks LLC videos for shoo repairs lately. It's the little things you learn that makes these videos worthwhile. I learned in the video below that most of the wooden shanks in Allen Edmonds shoes break (6/10). He also reinforced the heel counter and undone the gemming along half of the shoe,was good to watch it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f0VkmdAKMQ

In another video of John Lobb shoos refurbishment l learned how he gets all the wrinkles out of the uppers and make them almost look brand new. He wets the uppers and inserts a shoe tree and then rubs out the wrinkles under pressure. Good for igents to watch.
 

Dropbear

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^
First dude sounds like he ordered custom boots without any real research or clue what he was getting. They look nice to me. Of course they aren’t dress boots.

Whites MP boots just don’t appeal to me.
 

The Shooman

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A quote from Mr Pollock when asked what his wife thinks of his shoo addiction.

"I guess the wife approved at first, when I was nearly shoeless; however, I am forced to admit that I have been sneaking in most of the last hundred pair or so"
 

fxh

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The Tesky Brothers - they aren't the best dressed band on stage.
People on forums should know this is pretty much how a lot of people in Oz wear R M Williams. They can take a lot of abuse. (Sorry if this upsets you shooey.
1548844085089.png
 
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The Shooman

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Here's a video of the seller/designer Ascot Shoes that sells Vass.


To me the Vass identity has been ruined by people demanding tasteless monstrosities....it's become like a handmade fashion brand to the clueless, and the old manly classics that was the image seems to have become secondary.

To me the good shoemakers have their special identities that make them special, but Vass has become a mis-mash and lost that special vibe. The rot started with the F and U lasts, and before too long the igents come along and soon the vultures followed and made Vass into designer fashion done badly.

Vass have become too accessible to people who have no place owning them imo. These people don't understand about aesthetics and tradition and identity...they just want fashion, but that is empty, and it doesn't come with a great story and hallmark of the iconic house.
 
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The Shooman

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This is a wonderful video of Dominic Casey at his best yet again. He really is fantastic to listen to, and he seems so professional and such a nice man.

I really love how Dominic looks after his client by helping him perfect the fitting. See....with some makers it is not like that, and i've seen bespoke fittings turn out badly for customers because the bespoke makers seemed to cut corners and rush through the bespoke process and not insist on perfection, and the consequence was shoes with a lot of excess leather and a general messiness. The clients didn't know any different and the bespoke maker didn't choose to point out the obvious.

Here is a nice clean fit that is a hallmark of properly fitted Cleverley shoes imo. Nice and clean and elegant. I suspect the shoe on the left isn't Cleverley bespoke, but the rest definitely are, they have the classic hallmarks of the maker. Such a unique and special maker when they put the time in.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/rosecallahan/8288685989/

See, they fit to the foot, and no excess leather on the vamp. Dominic seems to think the same way to make a really fitted shoe.

I love how Dominic mentions about having a good relationship with your maker. I would love him to make a pair for me. Btw, Dominic's suit and shoos are fabulous too!
 
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shookt

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Hi all, new to this forum. I just received this pair of shoes from Budapest. My feet are so small that the maker can only make my size using this last, although it is not my first choice last by a mile. I would much prefer a more traditional AH last with goyser stitching.

That said, the fit is good and I think it is well constructed. Throwing it up here for advice: should I consider getting more made? What adjustments might you make if so?
2019-01-21 027.JPG
 

The Shooman

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Hi all, new to this forum. I just received this pair of shoes from Budapest. My feet are so small that the maker can only make my size using this last, although it is not my first choice last by a mile. I would much prefer a more traditional AH last with goyser stitching.

That said, the fit is good and I think it is well constructed. Throwing it up here for advice: should I consider getting more made? What adjustments might you make if so?
View attachment 31573
O.k, if the shoe is not your first choice by a mile l suggest you look somewhere else. The most important thing to do is to find a shoe that you like and that fits. Look for another maker and take your time to find something.

If you have trouble finding a decent shoe that fits and you have some spare money then try out a bespoke/MTM maker and get a few pair you really like over a period of a few years and you'll be set. Put the time in and do it right. No-one wants to wear a shoe that is ugly.

This could be a start, Jan Kielman
http://www.kielman.pl/en/buty/galeria/buty-meskie/

It's not as expensive as many makers. May be worth to take a flight there and get measured. They do goiser. Spend a bit of money on a flight and get it done right in a style you want. Do it once and you'll be thankful for many years to come.

I haven't used him, but people tell me his quality is similar to Vass. Look up forum reviews about him.

This is a possible option.
 

Journeyman

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Hi all, new to this forum. I just received this pair of shoes from Budapest. My feet are so small that the maker can only make my size using this last, although it is not my first choice last by a mile. I would much prefer a more traditional AH last with goyser stitching.
The last looks very nice and the shoes looks good - except that the goyser stitching doesn't suit that style at all (in my opinion, of course).

Can you get the shoes made without the goyser stitching?

Alternatively, as the Shooman says, try elsewhere.

How small are your feet, out of curiosity? I think that most of the UK manufacturers make adult shoes down to a UK6 or so, or sometimes a bit smaller. That's about a 39.5 in European sizing and US6.5.
 

shookt

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Thank you both - I think I should indeed consider the step up to bespoke seriously. I'm a 4.5UK/5.5US, so seriously small.

I can definitely get shoes made without goyser (this pair is from Attila - I did sizing there in person). I think I was being stubbornly silly about incorporating some AH tradition into the shoe and it ended up being a bit of a frankenstein.... It was a bit of an accident. I had placed my order at the store for a more traditional round toe last with the goyser stitch but was informed later on that my size was too small for the round toe last and that this was the only feasible last. I went ahead with it anyway and I don't regret it, they did a good job. Gotta be fair to Attila cipo!
 
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The Shooman

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Thank you both - I think I should indeed consider the step up to bespoke seriously. I'm a 4.5UK/5.5US, so seriously small.

I can definitely get shoes made without goyser (this pair is from Attila - I did sizing there in person). I think I was being stubbornly silly about incorporating some AH tradition into the shoe and it ended up being a bit of a frankenstein...
If you like goiser (I do too) it's best to let the traditional shoemaker like Kielman guide you on the classics which use goiser.

Vass used to only use goiser on their traditional shoes because they always knew it looked best on the traditional lasts. When men start playing designer and don't understand the traditions and aesthetics of shoes mistakes WILL happen. Not every man has artistry in his veins so it is best to be guided by men who adhere to traditions. Why? Because the men who designed the traditional shoes had ample artistry in their veins...they designed shoes like the alt wien and budapester on particular lasts and used goiser construction on these shoes because they knew it looked fantastic, but many men don't have that natural artistic talent and think they can come up with their own design, AND when men designs things that aren't traditional and classic you'll find people will get sick of them because they lack the aesthetic of perfection invented by an artistic master.

In other words....no need to change anything that is already perfect etc. Go to a house which specialises in styles they are famous for. For eg, I go to Vass for the perfect alt wien derbies and budapesters with goiser. I go to Lobb or Edward Green for a brilliantly designed captoe. If l wanted a wholecut chisel toe oxford with goiser like stitching l would go to Keilman or Santoni or Scafola. Each shoe house has their speciality, and messing with their creations is going to end in failure.
 
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The Shooman

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Thank you both - I think I should indeed consider the step up to bespoke seriously. I'm a 4.5UK/5.5US, so seriously small.

I can definitely get shoes made without goyser (this pair is from Attila - I did sizing there in person). I think I was being stubbornly silly about incorporating some AH tradition into the shoe and it ended up being a bit of a frankenstein.... It was a bit of an accident. I had placed my order at the store for a more traditional round toe last with the goyser stitch but was informed later on that my size was too small for the round toe last and that this was the only feasible last. I went ahead with it anyway and I don't regret it, they did a good job. Gotta be fair to Attila cipo!
Out of curiousity, what type of shoe do you want? Design? Last style etc?
 

fxh

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Hi all, new to this forum. I just received this pair of shoes from Budapest. My feet are so small that the maker can only make my size using this last, although it is not my first choice last by a mile. I would much prefer a more traditional AH last with goyser stitching.

That said, the fit is good and I think it is well constructed. Throwing it up here for advice: should I consider getting more made? What adjustments might you make if so?
View attachment 31573
That is indeed a small size. I’d take shooey’s advice. But remember he’d not care too much about cost. He’s not like us other humans.

In my view you could make a huge improvement by painting/dyeing out the stitching to match the leather colour. It would be simple. The look would be improved 85% and those in the know would still recognise it was goyser. The rest wouldnt know anyway.
 

The Shooman

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walker

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hi S shookt , welcome to the world of Austro-Hungarian shoemaking. I'm glad to see some real work from Attila, after I read nothing but good things about him and his shoemaking skills.

Alright, according to your shoe size and your foot shape, I assume you are asian, sporting the typical asian foot, which puts some limitations to your choices of styles. acutally, this is fact based and there is an infinite number of stories having difficulties to find the right fit and complimenting styles for those parameters.

given that you have been measured in budapest and the fit is good, I consider the first pair you received from them as an excellent point of departure for refinements of the last and/or changing styles.

going bespoke? why not? you're already working with the leading companies offering full bespoke in budapest. I assume, they are open for your ideas and input.

imo, in your case, you need literally more input from the last- and shoemaking departement, before you can settle on a final style.

Hi all, new to this forum. I just received this pair of shoes from Budapest. My feet are so small that the maker can only make my size using this last, although it is not my first choice last by a mile. I would much prefer a more traditional AH last with goyser stitching.

That said, the fit is good and I think it is well constructed. Throwing it up here for advice: should I consider getting more made? What adjustments might you make if so?
View attachment 31573
 

shookt

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Thank you all, really useful comments!

fxh fxh : I probably won’t change the shoes right now aside from wearing and conditioning, I guess over time the stitches will darken naturally? But if I do make another pair in the same last it will likely be without goyser to avoid a second frankenstein.

The Shooman The Shooman : Great shoes!! I should check if Vass can make that last in my size. However, I expect similar issues with the instep to arise. I might just have to give up on derbies in general, and more generous lasts.

W walker : I am indeed Asian, and it has been a nightmare getting rtw shoes to fit. This is my first MTM and fit wise it worked out great! Attila clearly knows sizing well, although he didn’t take the measurements himself. The very nice and professional lady at the store who speaks english did it. A lesser shoemaker wouldve just made the shoes as I requested and the fit would have been too large for my feet.

I will check to see if Attila is willing to go bespoke for me despite the language barrier and make a new last for my size.

I chose them over Vass because of the thread you guys have over here about ‘lost ways’. That thread and the AH thread on styfo inspired me to make this pair but in the end I made a frankenstein - my apologies!
 
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walker

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Thank you all, really useful comments!
you're welcome.

fxh fxh : I probably won’t change the shoes right now aside from wearing and conditioning, I guess over time the stitches will darken naturally? But if I do make another pair in the same last it will likely be without goyser to avoid a second frankenstein.
While the goyser welt might be a polarizing feature, I agree with you letting it age over time. actually, I dunno, why you call this number a frankenstein, but this is up to you. consider, if the thread is waxed it won't take pigments from regular shoe care plus painting would be the last exit for me. I've seen before and after conversions - not attractive at all.

The Shooman The Shooman : Great shoes!! I should check if Vass can make that last in my size. However, I expect similar issues with the instep to arise. I might just have to give up on derbies in general, and more generous lasts.
I might be wrong, but I cannot imagine, that vass can address your needs in the same manner than a trained bespoke maker like Attila is capable to do. You can always ask, though.

Do you have a high or low instep and what do you mean by generous lasts?

rule of thumb:

high instep - derby
low instep - oxford

fwiw, the budapester last is a very sleek last, just with a raised toe area. the viennese last - the model you favor, is a tad more generous, which should accomodate the width of your forefoot.

W walker : I am indeed Asian, ...

A lesser shoemaker wouldve just made the shoes as I requested and the fit would have been too large for my feet.

I will check to see if Attila is willing to go bespoke for me despite the language barrier and make a new last for my size.

I chose them over Vass because of the thread you guys have over here about ‘lost ways’. That thread and the AH thread on styfo inspired me to make this pair but in the end I made a frankenstein - my apologies!
actully, you answered some of your questions yourself. Not sure, what you mean by language barrier? Can you please link to the "lost ways" thread? I must have missed this ... Btw, I started the AH thread on styfo, so I might know a bit about your concerns. I can attest you, that your first foray into AH territory is by no means a frankenstein, I would rate it as a perfect start given all the quirks coming along with the process.
 

shookt

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While the goyser welt might be a polarizing feature, I agree with you letting it age over time. actually, I dunno, why you call this number a frankenstein, but this is up to you. consider, if the thread is waxed it won't take pigments from regular shoe care plus painting would be the last exit for me. I've seen before and after conversions - not attractive at all.
Thank you, I will wear the shoe as is.

Btw, I started the AH thread on styfo, so I might know a bit about your concerns. I can attest you, that your first foray into AH territory is by no means a frankenstein, I would rate it as a perfect start given all the quirks coming along with the process.
My fear was that the last shape might not pair well with goyser stitching. I don't want to force a shoemaker to make an ugly shoe because of my lack of understanding. However, you're certainly the authority on AH tradition and if you don't think it is a frankenstein, that is good enough for me! Is the chisel toe a shape within the AH tradition?

Do you have a high or low instep and what do you mean by generous lasts?

rule of thumb:

high instep - derby
low instep - oxford

fwiw, the budapester last is a very sleek last, just with a raised toe area. the viennese last - the model you favor, is a tad more generous, which should accomodate the width of your forefoot.
I have a low instep (hence oxford and smaller-volume last). I will check with the shop again about whether it is possible to get a budapester last in my size. The last time I asked, they said they were unable to do it in such a small size.

actully, you answered some of your questions yourself. Not sure, what you mean by language barrier? Can you please link to the "lost ways" thread? I must have missed this ...
I don't speak any Hungarian and I'm afraid that the communication barrier might be too much of a trouble for Attila.
The thread I was referring to is: https://www.dressedwell.net/threads/has-vass-lost-its-soul.857/
 

walker

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My fear was that the last shape might not pair well with goyser stitching. I don't want to force a shoemaker to make an ugly shoe because of my lack of understanding. However, you're certainly the authority on AH tradition and if you don't think it is a frankenstein, that is good enough for me! Is the chisel toe a shape within the AH tradition?
actually, I wouldn't call myself an authority, but I did my fair share to research the field.

the chisel toe is more of a niche in the AH tradition, but it surely exists. I'm tempted to say your number is on the safe side with room for refinement for subsequent numbers. I appreciate this approach by the workshop and please say goodbye to the word ugly in the context with your pair ...

I have a low instep (hence oxford and smaller-volume last). I will check with the shop again about whether it is possible to get a budapester last in my size. The last time I asked, they said they were unable to do it in such a small size.
probably, I wouldn't insist on a particular last style. I expect, they will work on a hybrid with you after the first attempt offers a good fit. this is the more likely scenario. imo, you're S shookt in good hands.

I don't speak any Hungarian and I'm afraid that the communication barrier might be too much of a trouble for Attila.
The thread I was referring to is: https://www.dressedwell.net/threads/has-vass-lost-its-soul.857/
alright, I don't speak hungarian also and you mentioned there is a lady in the shop, who speaks english. I don't see a problem here, no.

ah, the famous vass thread. vass is and will always be an institution for excellent shoes. I don't think they were my first address for a "problematic" fit. same goes for other big names in the business. every workshop has his particular abilities and strengths. there is no one stop shop offering all bells and whistles in the bespoke world. some can compensate issues having a big pool of outworkers, but rice is cooked with water.
 

The Shooman

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Just to clarify. I don’t consider the shoe particularly ugly.
Hard to tell from a photo. Seeing things in 3D makes shoes look very different. For eg, igents often do the silly and meaningless practice of photographing shoes next to each other comparing the `last' shapes and will compare Vass to Allen Edmonds and Edward Green etc and the shapes will look similar in a picture, but when the various shoes are seen in person the lasts will look completely different. So eventhough the Vass U last looks great in the picture, that is not always going to be the reality in the real world. The reality is that the goiser will not suit some Vass `last' shapes, and @shookt seems to have picked up on this and realise something is off about it. S shookt , trust your intuition....if you think something doesn't look right about it you are probably right.

As has been advised, find a good bespoke maker and ask if they can make the style you want that will fit.
 
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The Shooman

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It's also worth noting that Vass never used to allow goiser construction for the U last, and there is a probably a good reason for that, namely, it wouldn't suit that style of last too well. But these days the igents have changed everything, and the seller Ascot shoes has really brought igent tastes to the forefront, and now there is big money to be made out of breaking all the old style rules. These days Vass seems to just give people what they want, but the downside is Vass monstrosities. This is such a pity because Vass is such a wonderful maker, and l certainly wouldn't want people to associate Vass with making shoes of poor taste to cater to the igent mentality.

I'd like to see Vass put their foot down and shoo the igents off and get back to doing what they do best. Vass always survived doing what they did, and surely Vass doesn't need those types of people who are taking them down a different path. Mr Vass, tell those igents to go away....make shoos for the real shoomen.

Shooey, your IT man came through!

Great to see.
actually he hasn't fixed it yet, l still need to see him again. This is an older photo. I'll see my tech guy soon because l want to start taking photos again.
 
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shookt

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Thank you all, lots to think about! Added an action shot: I really do like wearing the shoes as is, they are my best fitting shoes right now.
I'm just too inexperienced to decide for myself whether it is closer to an igent Vass monstrosity or a solid pair of shoos...

008a.JPG
 
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The Shooman

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They are a well made pair of shoes from a great maker, and they are solid. Enjoy the experience.

I love wearing all my Vass shoes the most because they feel so good on the feet. I hope you get the same enjoyment. To me it is all about the experience on the feet first and foremost, ie, how they feel. That's why l rate Vass as my favourite shoes. If YOU get the pleasure l do from wearing them you are going to be a very lucky man!
 
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The Shooman

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Some of my other Vass goiser constructed shoes. Now these are shoos!!! Lobb and all the factory shoes don't even compare to these. These are manly, ooze handmade craftsmanship and have a character that machine made shoes made by factory workers never have. Vass are so special. These are the boss shoos.




I also have a stunning burgundy shell cordovan budapester, but no good photos of it that l can find.

I have the brown budsapester on tonight with cords and a turtleneck. It is my most comfortable shoe ever.
 
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