The All-Inclusive Shoe & Boot Thread

The Shooman

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You get what you pay for.

Gaziano & Girling v's R M Williams chelsea:
Gaziano & Girling chelsea 1.jpg R M Williams chealse boot.jpg

G & G
- high quality leather uppers
- high quality oak bark tanned leather soles by Bakers
- elegant last
- good finishing all over and great attention to fine details
- double brick house build made to hold up well over time

RMW
- average quality leather grainy uppers
- chemical died soles of average leather that wears out quickly
- a typical Bruce Millar designed voluminous last (very aussie in nature) that fits few feet and the uppers look untidy on most feet, yet very comfortable.
- single brick house more prone to losing shape over time.
- average level of finishing with basic attention to details.

The G&G costs almost three time more, but for a long term boot you are getting much more. You are getting a much better looking boot, better leather quality, better workmanship and a much more shapely boot on the foot with better build quality. You get what you pay for.
 

Dropbear

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Sure there are much nicer boots for wear with a fine suit, but there isn’t much competition for an iconic knock-about Chelsea that you can wear with jeans, chinos and casual pants. Everything else is either high-end or a construction site boot.

That said, RMW seem to be determined to price themselves out of their own niche.
 

The Shooman

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notice how rugged those RMW's look, that is very typical of the look...the uppers get all rolled up and sloppy due to excess leather caused by a voluminous last. Not criticising, just saying. I am proud of RMW.

I bet you Boris had a pair of black cheaney captoe oxfords on or something. I wish he'd graduate to John Lobb. I just popped on my John Lobb captoe oxfords for the evening.
 

Kingstonian

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My RM Williams fit very nicely. I always need a shoe tree to put them on and take them off though.

Boris is not really a shoes or clothes person.
 

The Shooman

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Kirby drops a bombshell and admits that most of the bespoke stuff he has filmed hasn't fit too well. See 2:30:00 - 2:31:00.

See, the problem is that Kirby is like many customers who don't really know what to expect and ask for. It takes lots of insight and contemplation and observation to learn about one's feet and shoo fit, it's a very difficult thing to learn about, and Kirby made many elementary mistakes that shouldn't have been made had he been observant.

and looking at Dominic Casey's sole stitching (see 2:30:30) and inseaming....it isn't as neat as the Berluti guys and the Japanese and Delos and the top boys.

Live Shoe Shine! TLB Mallorca and more

and yes, l did watch it for 3 hours and polish my shoos while doing it. o_O
 
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shookt

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He's been ordering quite a number of bespoke in the last few years - what are some examples of his mistakes?
 

The Shooman

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He's been ordering quite a number of bespoke in the last few years - what are some examples of his mistakes?
Obvious mistakes such as the vamp and heel area being too roomy, no excuse to make those mistakes in the fitting. He relies on the maker trying to tell him how they fit instead of him (Kirby) working with the maker and letting them know how he wants the shoes to fit. Kirby should be actively pointing out the areas that need adjusting during the fitting period, but he blew it and failed to rise to the occasions many many times. Fitting day is the big day where you need to be able to perform at your best, because if you perform below par and make mistakes you could be stuck with a shoe that isn't an ideal fit. Kirby has been like a limp carrot, he just sits there and does NOTHING!

When my shoes were made l covered about 20 areas where the fit needed improvement, and the last maker and myself had a great meeting of the minds. I went all over the foot and also wanted it filled in more underneath so there was little gap, but at the same time for the last to be shaped slightly different to allow for my feet to slid down a snug shoe when my food grows longer near the end of the day (so not angling in the last so much on the outside) . It ended up with a really snug fit, and the shoes look two sizes too small, yet they fit very very well and unlike anything else. The uppers have no real wrinkling and creasing on the foot,they look prestine despite decent wear.

Fit is a really subjective thing, but here is a pair with a more roomy fit. See the excess leather and bulging of the leather on the side of the foot and on the vamp area. Even the heel counter area looks roomy.
Cleverley roomy fit.jpg

Here are bespoke Gaziano & Girling bespokes. Excess leather on the vamp and on the sides. None-the-less, there is a trade off needed,the last still needs to take a certain shape and can't look exactly like the foot, however there looks like there could be little nip and tucks here and there to get a more tidy shoe on the foot. The fit looks like it could definitely be improved, and it is up to the client to speak up during the fitting so these little things can be sorted out.

Gaziano-Girling-bespoke-shoe2.png
 
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Dropbear

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2,752
A friend just bought a nice set of Hunter Wellington boots for the hunting and fishing.

I did a quick search online and it seems no one makes wellies in wide sizes. Unless there is someone out there doing bespoke rubber boots, hahah!
 

Thruth

thicker but more pliant than horsehide
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A friend just bought a nice set of Hunter Wellington boots for the hunting and fishing.

I did a quick search online and it seems no one makes wellies in wide sizes. Unless there is someone out there doing bespoke rubber boots, hahah!
Most Hunter boots made offshore now
 

Dropbear

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Most Hunter boots made offshore now
My only experience with wellies is the paddington bear yellow boots we’d get for a few dollars as kids. I was pretty impressed with the ones I saw yesterday. But I bet your feet sweat like crazy in them if you do any hiking.
 

Thruth

thicker but more pliant than horsehide
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My only experience with wellies is the paddington bear yellow boots we’d get for a few dollars as kids. I was pretty impressed with the ones I saw yesterday. But I bet your feet sweat like crazy in them if you do any hiking.
Hunters look good and are still decent. They seem to have changed the rubber formulation of some if not all and the are more prone to cracks and splitting in our cold.

No matter what they will be sweaty if you are wearing them for any length of time like any rubber wellie.

Mrs. Thruth wears them but I’d look at Aigle and Le Chameau as alternatives if I was buying a pair for myself.

Hoggs of Fife, Muck Boots and Bogs make decent ones too at a less premium price.

My go to Wellington/rubber boot is Baffin Technologies with and without liners. But they have been bought by Canada Goose and I dislike CG with a passion. They are less country gentleman looking but are bulletproof in construction and longevity.
 

Dropbear

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Tbh, I don’t think I need wellies. Most of my hunting and hiking is on dry land or the odd puddle. Also probably not an option since the only ‘wide’ options seem to be wide calfs, not feet.
 

Thruth

thicker but more pliant than horsehide
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Tbh, I don’t think I need wellies. Most of my hunting and hiking is on dry land or the odd puddle. Also probably not an option since the only ‘wide’ options seem to be wide calfs, not feet.
Better to get a waterproof-breathable purpose built hiking/hunting boot versus wearing wellies.
 

Dropbear

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Hunters look good and are still decent. They seem to have changed the rubber formulation of some if not all and the are more prone to cracks and splitting in our cold.
Girl in my workplace today was wearing Hunter boots and they looked sexy af.

How are Barbour boots? On par with Hogg’s?
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Are you ready to be delivered to the Promised Land, C&J's 140th anniversary style:




 

The Shooman

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Kirby is in poor form here. He cuts Dominic Casey off and talks over him so many times. Dominic is the expert yet Kirby wants to talk like he is the expert. So cringeworthy and embarrassing.
Receiving My Amazing Bespoke Shoes From The Man Himself!
 

The Shooman

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Something for inspiration, wine suede shoes. These are only cheaply made, but wow what a colour. So many possibilities through special order. Loafers with a horsebit would be great for the warmer months, a great evening shoe with light bone trousers.
Wine suede shoes.jpeg
 

shookt

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Kirby is in poor form here. He cuts Dominic Casey off and talks over him so many times. Dominic is the expert yet Kirby wants to talk like he is the expert. So cringeworthy and embarrassing.
Receiving My Amazing Bespoke Shoes From The Man Himself!
So true. So many interruptions.
 

fxh

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Something for inspiration, wine suede shoes. These are only cheaply made, but wow what a colour. So many possibilities through special order. Loafers with a horsebit would be great for the warmer months, a great evening shoe with light bone trousers.
View attachment 32643
I've got a wine pair of these Drapers slippers - does that count?
1569646412927.png
 

The Shooman

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a badly treated John Lobb suffers from gemming failure. But while refurbishing the shoes the cobbler comments on how great the materials and craftsmanship is on the shoes.

John Lobb Shoe Restoration


Personally, BIG John Lobb is my favourite English brand of goodyear welted shoes. The colours, the lasts and designs are brilliant. Anthony Cleverley and Edward Green and Gaziano & Girling have certain features that are better, but l still love big Johnny Lobb.

I've had John Lobb on the brain in the last few days, and l do plan to wear them all this week when the sun shine nice for Spring. I am going to wear beautiful trousers, my new bespoke shirts (should arrive tomorrow) and BIG Johnny Lobb all week long. 😍
 

Kafkann

Active Member
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I'm currently in Asia for my job and pass by these guys everyday on my commute.
Happens that I need some rubber soled pairs (no decent cobbler around here afaik so leather+topy is out), so I dropped in today..
Now I have two options, for the same amount of money I can get:
-dainite from the usual Northampton makers, gyw, good upper
-mediocre upper, dainite or vibram+fiddle waist, and handwelt(!for science!!) from these guys

decisions decisions..
 

Kingstonian

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Are you ready to be delivered to the Promised Land, C&J's 140th anniversary style:




Those shoes are all horrible. Well made maybe - but horrible.
 

Kingstonian

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The Perry and the Magee look good to be. I'm likely in the market.
Perry has a horrible leather insert of a different texture. A classic punched toe on the 337 last is better.

The Magee is even worse. Take different texture leathers. Put it in a terrible elastic sided shoe with leather covering. Then add some superfluous broguing to bring it down another peg.
 

Kingstonian

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Here you are :-

It’s not black so OK with the Internet crowd and it’s not tan so it will work with quite a lot of things.

I have an Audley plain Oxford on 337 last but the punched toe looks good.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Perry has a horrible leather insert of a different texture. A classic punched toe on the 337 last is better.

The Magee is even worse. Take different texture leathers. Put it in a terrible elastic sided shoe with leather covering. Then add some superfluous broguing to bring it down another peg.
That's what I like about them, a bit of playfulness. The Magee style is an old pre-war style of slip-on, according to C.J. Cleverley's website, originally designed for Winston Churchill. But like Penhaligon's Blenheim Bouqet, they would say that.

Here you are :-.

It’s not black so OK with the Internet crowd and it’s not tan so it will work with quite a lot of things.

I have an Audley plain Oxford on 337 last but the punched toe looks good.
Yes, but very much a work shoe. I'm looking form something else at the moment.
 

shookt

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Messages
74
I'm currently in Asia for my job and pass by these guys everyday on my commute.
Happens that I need some rubber soled pairs (no decent cobbler around here afaik so leather+topy is out), so I dropped in today..
Now I have two options, for the same amount of money I can get:
-dainite from the usual Northampton makers, gyw, good upper
-mediocre upper, dainite or vibram+fiddle waist, and handwelt(!for science!!) from these guys

decisions decisions..
Be careful with SEA 'handwelted' shoes - it may be handwelted but the materials used for the insole and the welt may be subpar. I know of at least one brand that uses synthetic insoles even though it is handwelted (kinda defeats the purpose of handwelting...).
 

The Shooman

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Be careful with SEA 'handwelted' shoes - it may be handwelted but the materials used for the insole and the welt may be subpar. I know of at least one brand that uses synthetic insoles even though it is handwelted (kinda defeats the purpose of handwelting...).

Where is this company located, China? In the country?

I've seen some handmade shoes from China also made cheaply that are hand welted. Why could this be? IMO, the company is probably not too big and the owners are not too rich or have access to much credit, so they can't afford to buy machines and just pay low wages for workers and buy cheap materials and make money as they go. Investment costs are low. The poor areas of ltaly (villages) always did this in the 1950's with shoos...the poor workshops couldn't afford machines so they continued to make shoes by hand to the masses while the city areas bought machines and made factory shoes for the rich customers. The poor people wanted their shoes made in a factory by machine but were forced to have them handmade by the village cobblers. Funny how times have changed, but in some ways they haven't.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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The poor areas of ltaly (villages) always did this in the 1950's with shoos...
Italy still has some very spooky levels of deprivation, mixed with extreme displays of wealth and access to serious good times free of normal inhibitions whilst maintaining a decorum of Mama love and bewildering levels of bureaucracy blended with 3rd world levels of corruption. Just look at the national oil & gas, energy, telephone companies and their spin-offs. And of course, the Panama Papers.
 

shookt

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Where is this company located, China? In the country?
Indonesia. I just realized that "SEA" is an acronym that is not likely widely recognized - it refers to South East Asia. Here I'm thinking primarily of shoes made in Vietnam, Indonesia, and also to some extent Korea. That is not to say all shoes made in these countries use substandard materials. Just have to do some homework and check.
 
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The Shooman

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Indonesia. I just realized that "SEA" is an acronym that is not likely widely recognized - it refers to South East Asia. Here I'm thinking primarily of shoes made in Vietnam, Indonesia, and also to some extent Korea. That is not to say all shoes made in these countries use substandard materials. Just have to do some homework and check.
Yes, those countries much more likely to do this than China these days.

btw, Kirby never ever mentions the word `Bakers' when talking about oak bark tanned leather soles. He always mentions Rendenbach but avoids the B word like the plague. He always skirts around the word.
 
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