The All-Inclusive Shoe & Boot Thread

The Shooman

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- Completed one of my biggest shoo dreams today
- got my hat-trick of John Lobb Westbournes.
It took years to achieve.

Years ago l bought all the best John Lobbs, those Paul Smith limited editions in stunning colours and lasts and patterns. They were complete perfection. But the one thing l never did get was the purple Westbourne, however l did go back to the shop to buy it soon after l bought the others ones, but sadly they sent the remaining stock back to London. I had major regrets, and over the years l never quite got over it. I searched and searched and dreamed hard for years hoping to get that purple pair of Westbournes to complete my fancy John Lobb collection, but despite searching the world and contacting many shops it eluded me year after year. But today a dream has come true...l found that final pair i've been after all these years.

Here my new BIG Johnny Lobb
John Lobb - purple - mine.jpg



The family of `westbornes' for BIG John Lobb
John Lobb - 3 colours - mine 1.jpg




and the finest rtw Derby I have ever seen! These always blow me away. No-one does shoes like John Lobb.


I love all these pairs of John Lobbs like you wouldn't believe. I feel beyond lucky to own them. I cherish them and love them much more than G&G and Edward Green and all of them. I love the colours, the patterns, the lasts and the overall style. I love the thick leathers and the John Lobb way.

I don't buy shoos much these days, but when l do it needs to be an EVENT!!! Truly, these are all eye poppers.
 
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The Shooman

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Interesting article about a lady in Melbourne who gave up a career in the advertising industry and started training as a cordwainer:

One of Australia's best cordwainers wanted to train me and have me take over his workshop, but the reality of the work is not so glamorous. It's very hard work and bills need to be paid. The reality also was that most of my clients would be women, and the economics of women's shoes are not what most people imagine and it is very trying and inconvenient and corners often need to be made in order to make women's shoes. He was a Russian cordwainer who hand stitched countless shoes in his lifetime and had great old school skills, and he taught me ALOT!!! The reality is that it is a very tough job to do, takes a long time to develop the skills, and unless one is at the very top it is hard to charge big bucks, AND the other downside is that average cordwainers will never have a worldwide name and hence won't have much name recognition locally either, so many people who could afford to buy custom will buy brand names instead.

It takes 3 months to learn how to sharpen a knife properly. It is the most important skill to learn, yet how many cordwainers have really learned properly?...very few l imagine. One needs to balance skills with economics.
 

shookt

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I never understood how womens' shoes fit into the high end shoe world. Everything I see in the big department stores that women pay big bucks for are so shoddy in quality its shocking. How do women willingly fork out thousands for cement constructed shoes??
 

shookt

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Fascinating pair - apparently civil war shoes were wood-pegged ala Austrian shoemaking tradition??

 

Thruth

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Fascinating pair - apparently civil war shoes were wood-pegged ala Austrian shoemaking tradition??

yes. hence also the development of the cowboy boot with pegged construction that is still done by the custom bootmakers.

The TL/DR = Hessian boots to Wellingtons to American cavalry boots to cowboy boots.
 

The Shooman

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Fascinating pair - apparently civil war shoes were wood-pegged ala Austrian shoemaking tradition??


I was going to post that link. No, they are not constructed in the Austrian handmade tradition. Why? Because those civil war shoes are crudely made with a construction that cuts corners. Why? They are not hand welted, therefore the construction WILL damage the uppers, and as we know, the golden rule of a great construction is that it never damages the uppers.

It is likely that this civil war boot has glued the upper down to the insole and then wood pegged the slipsole and outsole through the upper to the insole (bad way of doing it) because there is no presence of a welt. AND if you look closely the wood pegs are going to be going through the upper because there is going to be no feather on the edge of the insole, and this is a big no no in highend constructions. The cobbler also admitted he never got the wood pegs in the original spaces, so this means the uppers will have been mashed due to the inferior construction. There are other problems too....ie, that slipsole will eventually get mashed from repeated resoles, and the insole will eventually get mashed up too (sometimes sooner than later), and rebuilds will only shorten the life of the uppers until one day there won't be any boot to wood peg anymore because the upper that attaches to the soles won't have anything to attach anymore.

I always like talking about constructions. Why? Because it is like working out a mystery and a puzzle. One can't see too much from the outside, but a shoe always gives it's clues in little ways, and you can usually work out the mystery of how it's been built. And it's good to work out why the maker built it in a certain way and any possible corners they cut etc. It is great to analyse the boot.
 

The Shooman

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Fascinating pair - apparently civil war shoes were wood-pegged ala Austrian shoemaking tradition??

Here are some real deal wood pegged shoes ala Austrian shoemaking tradition. They are `real shoes' and nothing like the factory made imitations you see everywhere today. They are proper handmade shoes. Some of my pairs:

Hand welted wood pegged shoes by George Materna



Hand welted wood pegged shoos by the late Grampa KISS




Some real wood pegged stunners by Grampa KISS


A hand stitched derby by Grampa KISS, a real beauty and something you never see anymore.


I believe the shoe trees were hand carved by the legendary Kalman Berta. The whole project was very rare and very special. Old historical figures got together on this `project paprika' organised by a poster here called `Walker'. Having Kalman Berta come to the party was the icing on the cake, l feel very lucky having been part of such greatness.

Not many blokes could say they have Kalman Berta originals and KISS shoes. I understand Grampa Kiss only made about 5,000 shoes in his lifetime.
 

walker

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thank you for your kind words.

my role was minor, I just was on the spot, while grampa kiss was still alive and I could reconnect his work with the work of kalman berta. tbh, for me a dream came through and it will ever be in my heart.

your participation in this special cause "operation paprika" will ever be much appreciated, many thanks.

Here are some real deal wood pegged shoes ala Austrian shoemaking tradition. They are `real shoes' and nothing like the factory made imitations you see everywhere today. They are proper handmade shoes. Some of my pairs:

Hand welted wood pegged shoes by George Materna



Hand welted wood pegged shoos by the late Grampa KISS




Some real wood pegged stunners by Grampa KISS


A hand stitched derby by Grampa KISS, a real beauty and something you never see anymore.


I believe the shoe trees were hand carved by the legendary Kalman Berta. The whole project was very rare and very special. Old historical figures got together on this `project paprika' organised by a poster here called `Walker'. Having Kalman Berta come to the party was the icing on the cake, l feel very lucky having been part of such greatness.

Not many blokes could say they have Kalman Berta originals and KISS shoes. I understand Grampa Kiss only made about 5,000 shoes in his lifetime.
 

shookt

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Nice shoes! I have been admiring Materna and reading the Paprika thread on styleforum. Great works.

I’m guessing that the central European custom of pegging shoes may have went over with the Hessian troops as postulated by Thruth, but clearly the army did not have the resources to afford the kind of artistry in the form of your examples!

Of course, the web claims some American (Joseph Walker) invented pegging shoes in the 1800s, a claim that seems quite dubious.
 
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walker

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Nice shoes! I have been admiring Materna and reading the Paprika thread on styleforum. Great works.
I remember an analogy from Thruth, who said: those shoes were orphans and you organized to get them back into the circle of life. gladly, I was able to find a nice pair of boots for him. it was the most abstract way of sizing, I ever did. of course, I had roughly his size, but I much more listened to his exposure of quirks with his other shoes/boots and tried to nail the crucial points. it worked.

on a random and pathetic note: while, I avoided the hardcore i-gents, not every pair found a good home for several reasons. consider, the i-gents were much more civilized and educated than today, but still.

some of the participants of the cause, who rose to obscure fame on styfo, were even lying about the fit issues, e.g. geezas eyes aka dumpster king and/or urban composition aka cable guy, fate.
 

Rambo

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I remember an analogy from Thruth, who said: those shoes were orphans and you organized to get them back into the circle of life. gladly, I was able to find a nice pair of boots for him. it was the most abstract way of sizing, I ever did. of course, I had roughly his size, but I much more listened to his exposure of quirks with his other shoes/boots and tried to nail the crucial points. it worked.

on a random and pathetic note: while, I avoided the hardcore i-gents, not every pair found a good home for several reasons. consider, the i-gents were much more civilized and educated than today, but still.

some of the participants of the cause, who rose to obscure fame on styfo, were even lying about the fit issues, e.g. geezas eyes aka dumpster king and/or urban composition aka cable guy, fate.
Good to see you again you old battle axe. Keep this blood feud alive until you die.
 

walker

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Good to see you again you old battle axe. Keep this blood feud alive until you die.
accepted, you know: a man has to do ..., anyway. the cause "operation paprika" is my thickest blood, I established and created everything on my own, few I had to lose on the operation front, some I lost on the "customer" front, still it is the core, I've built my knowledge on.

consider, when I did what I did, I wasn't aware that I was blessed to meet these shoemakers, who were rather cryptic, but I soaked the little bits here and there up like a sponge.

just give me a hands up and I will gladly share my experiences with the members here, deal?
 

shookt

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I'm now dreaming of a semibrogue in kangaroo, especially for summer. Inspired by those Paprikas!
 

The Shooman

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This is a very interesting video. Definitely Kirby's best. An interview with Dominic Casey.

How Do You Become One Of The Best Bespoke Shoemakers?

as was said, having a good relationship with your bespoke maker is important. That's one thing l never had with one of my makers, and it made me reluctant to ever buy again. They made a great product, but a negative experience. Not my type of people.
 
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Thruth

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Love those generous toe boxes.
They are comfy. walker did a great job figuring out my fit. He also taught me how to fine tune things with swapping in/out different sockliners and I can have my cordwainer make them for me.

Black quarter brogues from Hungary today:
View attachment 32795
Very nice. Who made them? Maybe Attila, maybe not? Why you wear'em balmoral mit casual slacks?
 

shookt

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Thank you, Buday made em. Fit is not as nice as Attila, since last wasn't adjusted. Those ain't balmorals haha, just ordinary quarter brogue oxfords.
 

The Shooman

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Great looking boot. Lucky!


Love those generous toe boxes.
Black quarter brogues from Hungary today:
View attachment 32795

Real shoes. Lucky.

They are comfy. walker did a great job figuring out my fit. He also taught me how to fine tune things with swapping in/out different sockliners and I can have my cordwainer make them for me.
Yeah, using sockliners is the key to optimizing fit. I also use thicker socks with some shoes. It snugs things up with various shoes that need it. Fine tuning the fit indeed, it is needed with rtw.
 

Thruth

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Thank you, Buday made em. Fit is not as nice as Attila, since last wasn't adjusted. Those ain't balmorals haha, just ordinary quarter brogue oxfords.
oxford = balmoral = closed lacing
Derby = Blucher = open lacing
 

shookt

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Apologies, I had thought balmoral captoe oxfords looked like this (Josh Leong):
1572454228477.png


as compared to a regular cap toe oxford (Park 5th ave):
1572454286263.png

Used captoes just as an easy example to find images of online.
But yes, I don't have too many qualms wearing an oxford with corduroys or slacks, especailly with broguing.
 

Thruth

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Apologies, I had thought balmoral captoe oxfords looked like this (Josh Leong):
View attachment 32797

as compared to a regular cap toe oxford (Park 5th ave):
View attachment 32798
Used captoes just as an easy example to find images of online.
But yes, I don't have too many qualms wearing an oxford with corduroys or slacks, especailly with broguing.
you are right.
Truth is 50% truth above.
Well, if we are all going to be pedantic then I'll be a pedant and express my pedantic dislike of shoes with closed lacing being worn with casual slacks and pedantically suggest that it breaks the stylistic rules that we pedantically choose to follow or not.

IF WE WEAR CLOSED LACES OUTSIDE OF SUITS THEN THE TERRORISTS & ALT-PEDANTS WIN! EVEN IF THEY BUY CARBON OFFSETS.

Next you will all tell me that you are buying Valstarino corduroy blouson jackets like DW's late and not so great Leitmotif is considering.
 

Rambo

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Well, if we are all going to be pedantic then I'll be a pedant and express my pedantic dislike of shoes with closed lacing being worn with casual slacks and pedantically suggest that it breaks the stylistic rules that we pedantically choose to follow or not.

IF WE WEAR CLOSED LACES OUTSIDE OF SUITS THEN THE TERRORISTS & ALT-PEDANTS WIN! EVEN IF THEY BUY CARBON OFFSETS.

Next you will all tell me that you are buying Valstarino corduroy blouson jackets like DW's late and not so great Leitmotif is considering.
How is the venezooalien? Gone to fight against imperialist yankee forces at home?
 

The Shooman

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Well, if we are all going to be pedantic then I'll be a pedant and express my pedantic dislike of shoes with closed lacing being worn with casual slacks and pedantically suggest that it breaks the stylistic rules that we pedantically choose to follow or not.

IF WE WEAR CLOSED LACES OUTSIDE OF SUITS THEN THE TERRORISTS & ALT-PEDANTS WIN! EVEN IF THEY BUY CARBON OFFSETS.

Next you will all tell me that you are buying Valstarino corduroy blouson jackets like DW's late and not so great Leitmotif is considering.

look below






































































*snark face icon* returns




that being said, l do agree. I often wear closed lacing with dress trousers without a suit or coat, but always prefer to pair a derby with casual trousers and pants. I see many forum folk and bloggers who do closed lacing with casual pants and it doesn't look right.
 
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fxh

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I don't approve of shoes at all with jeans. Especially NOT closed laced and highly polished, refined shoes.

I will occasionally give a pass to chunky brogues with jeans.

But its a slippery slope because if you aren't careful next thing you know someone is wearing black highly polished closed lace dress shoes with jeans and then its a short step to wearing a sportscoat with jeans, or further down the gutter an orphan pinstriped suit jacket AND............ bottom of gutter - a tie with jeans!!!!!
 

Thruth

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How is the venezooalien? Gone to fight against imperialist yankee forces at home?
naw, that did not pan out or it was all bullshit. back in the old gig with a new company & threatening to accept other jobs not in Whorelando.
 

Rambo

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naw, that did not pan out or it was all bullshit. back in the old gig with a new company & threatening to accept other jobs not in Whorelando.
If only he was smart enough to do so
 

The Shooman

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further down the gutter an orphan pinstriped suit jacket AND............ bottom of gutter - a tie with jeans!!!!!
well said 😸

l broke one of those rules once when l met fxh. Do l normally? No, but that day l didn't give a rats bottom so l wore certain shoos with jeans because l felt like wearing those shoos without any concern to entire appearance. I let it all hang out that day and fxh saw it, and l didn't give a rat's backside. 😍
 
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shookt

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Well, if we are all going to be pedantic then I'll be a pedant and express my pedantic dislike of shoes with closed lacing being worn with casual slacks and pedantically suggest that it breaks the stylistic rules that we pedantically choose to follow or not.

IF WE WEAR CLOSED LACES OUTSIDE OF SUITS THEN THE TERRORISTS & ALT-PEDANTS WIN! EVEN IF THEY BUY CARBON OFFSETS.

Next you will all tell me that you are buying Valstarino corduroy blouson jackets like DW's late and not so great Leitmotif is considering.
Haha no fear, I'm not planning on corduroy jackets. I do have sympathy for closed lacing not being worn with casual slacks, although I also think the leather and broguing matter more. Black calf with quarter brogues was borderline for me, and that pair is usually worn with suits, but I do wear pressed grain leather or shell oxfords in brown with slacks.

There's also something to be said about fit right? On that last (and most RTW), even with an oxford, there is some excess on the vamp. A derby on that last for me would've been a wrinkly disaster.

Now that I have found Attila, I can do derbies with ease of mind. Received a pair and awaiting another pair!
 

fxh

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well said 😸

l broke one of those rules once when l met fxh. Do l normally? No, but that day l didn't give a rats bottom so l wore certain shoos with jeans because l felt like wearing those shoos without any concern to entire appearance. I let it all hang out that day and fxh saw it, and l didn't give a rat's backside. 😍
I wish to make a public statement.
I allow shooey to wear anything with anything. He’s beyond criticsm.

I think the last time I had a Big Day Out with shooey in the city it rained like buggery. I didn’t have to right gear and by the time we got to American Tailor’s I looked like a drowned sewer rat.
 

Kingstonian

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“I think the last time I had a Big Day Out with shooey in the city it rained like buggery. I didn’t have to right gear and by the time we got to American Tailor’s I looked like a drowned sewer rat.”

Let me guess. Shooman wore nine ply worth of cashmere, some solid 8 wale corduroys, stout shoes, a calf length rain coat, a hat and he was carrying an expensive European umbrella?
 

Enrile

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[QUOTE = "The Shooman, publicación: 235088, miembro: 616"]
mira abajo






































































* icono de cara snark * regresa




Dicho esto, estoy de acuerdo. A menudo uso cordones cerrados con pantalones de vestir sin traje ni abrigo, pero siempre prefiero combinar un derby con pantalones y pantalones casuales. Veo a mucha gente del foro y blogueros que hacen cordones cerrados con pantalones casuales y no se ve bien.
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IMG-20191024-WA0019.jpeg
IMG-20191024-WA0019.jpeg
 
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