The All-Inclusive Shoe & Boot Thread

Rambo

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I think everyone has had their fill by this point. Lets move on.
 

The Shooman

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Can we please put an end to this unmitigated horse shit?
Yep, time to put an end to the horse poo for a while. Time for some good old fashioned shoo talk.


A mate is going to send me these soon. Santoni hand welted norvegese shoes. When l get shoes l always require that it be a special event! These types of shoes are fantastic quality!!!

I started him off on great shoes 14 years ago and now he has amassed a great collection of Santoni handmades (norvegese and bentivegna) of the highest quality.

We fit into the same types of shoes, so they will fit me. Don't they look fantastic. I feel very lucky to be getting a pair of these.
Santoni norvegese - Isshy.jpg
 
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shookt

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My what big welts you have. All the better to kick you with. Bring the welts on!

Would that count as a spade sole? Quite the presence, and the leather looks great.
 

The Shooman

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My what big welts you have. All the better to kick you with. Bring the welts on!

Would that count as a spade sole? Quite the presence, and the leather looks great.
LOVE the big fat welts, especially those Santoni and Lattanzi types. The only regret was that l never snapped up dozens of pairs 20 years ago when a local warehouse was selling them for bargain prices of $550 at the time. They were worth thousands back in those days in Oz, but l never liked the BIG welts at the time. 4 years later l got fully hooked on BIG welts and l have some of the biggest welts in the business including a 1950's double stitched welt gunboat that is rarely seen made these days in such a manner.

Yes, the leather on those types of shoes is bespoke quality. The build and everything is top class and made to last a lifetime. When a man gets into Vass, Santoni BIG welts and Lattanzi it is difficult to wear other shoes like John Lobb because the former are so superior. I've been wearing the big boy shoos for weeks and haven't wanted to pop a pair of goodyear shoes on....i've been enjoying myself so much wearing the good ones. Yes, Santoni can make amazing BIG welts with great presence.

They are not a spade sole, no way! I do have a 1930's spade sole that also has it's welt double stitched along with being hand welted, but l can't find it. Haven't seen it in years. It is in my shoo room somewhere under boxes and boxes of shoos. Then again, l haven't seen any of my R.M.Williams either, they are buried under boxes of shoes and they haven't seen the light of day for probably over 15 years.

Now here are REAL SHOES. These completely kick John Lobb and Gaziano & Girling out of the ballpark, but they are far better made with high price tags to match. Great leathers, great design and great construction. Serious shoes!!!
Santoni Limited edition 8.JPG


The BIG welts
Santoni FAM limited edition norvegese 8.jpg


A Santoni l was admiring recently. Norvegese with a braided stitch.
Santoni norvegese half brogues 1.jpg


These shoos are an event!
 
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Journeyman

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Santoni hand welted norvegese shoes.
Love the shoes - I've got a couple of pairs of Santoni FAMs and Santoni Goodyear-welted shoes and they're very nice, with very fine, neat stitching.

However, please ask your friend to get better shoe trees! I really don't like style as it tends to press against the inner heel of the shoes, leading to wear-and-tear on the inner heel. Plus, it pushes the heel out and makes it look mis-shapen, too. Much better to get the style in the photo directly above this post, with the round back to the shoe trees.
 

Rambo

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speaking of shoe trees I have a question: so in my extra wide foot width i'm forced to buy XL shoe trees. they've been in my boots that I haven't worn for quite some time now and my best guess is that they've stretched out the shoe leather a bit. in generic size trees with boots that have leather prone to stretching, is getting a slightly smaller tree in there so that it doesn't meet the full width of the shoe a big deal? In this example lets say an XL tree would be for sizes 11-14 and a L tree would be for 7-10.
 

The Shooman

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shookt said:
My what big welts you have.
Actually, none of those shoes l posted earlier have a welt. Norvegese shoes don't have a welt. The way those are done, it is impossible to have a welt because the uppers are turned out 30% of the way along the slip sole and that upper is stitched done to the slip sole while the slipsole is stitched to the outsole. Norvegese doesn't have a feather either.


Journeyman said:
Love the shoes - I've got a couple of pairs of Santoni FAMs and Santoni Goodyear-welted shoes and they're very nice, with very fine, neat stitching.
Santoni FAM goodyears are decent.

Journeyman said:
However, please ask your friend to get better shoe trees!
He has plenty of good shoe trees, he probably popped a crummy pair for the photo because he couldn't be bothered finding anything else at the time.
 

The Shooman

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speaking of shoe trees I have a question: so in my extra wide foot width i'm forced to buy XL shoe trees. they've been in my boots that I haven't worn for quite some time now and my best guess is that they've stretched out the shoe leather a bit. in generic size trees with boots that have leather prone to stretching, is getting a slightly smaller tree in there so that it doesn't meet the full width of the shoe a big deal? In this example lets say an XL tree would be for sizes 11-14 and a L tree would be for 7-10.
You want to be careful with that. You really want to keep the boot straightened out properly with good pressure so it doesn't curl up. Maybe find a more narrow tree.

Shoe tree myth busted
Many people say one of the purposes of trees is to dry the shoe out. That is rubbish. Many rtw shoe trees don't touch a large surface area of the insides of shoes, and various bespoke makers also hollow out their trees or varnish them because they know a trees purpose is not to dry a shoe. Even assuming a trees do absorb moisture, it would still need to release back into the shoe before the moisture is evaporated.
 

shookt

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Actually, none of those shoes l posted earlier have a welt. Norvegese shoes don't have a welt. The way those are done, it is impossible to have a welt because the uppers are turned out 30% of the way along the slip sole and that upper is stitched done to the slip sole while the slipsole is stitched to the outsole. Norvegese doesn't have a feather either.
How true. I was just thinking about that SF thread about Big Stitches and Big Welts, but it doesn't make sense to kick people using shoes with big stitches per se. It does, however, make sense to kick people using shoes with big welts. I'm sure many uppers have been saved from scuffs by big welts!
 

güero

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Be careful kids, that's what's waiting if you get too involved with shoes! Like porn addicts someday might wake up to Amateur shemale midget puke porn and consider it a delicacy.
 

formby001

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Shooey, those shoes with the fancy stitching are not pleasant to the eye.

There's too much going on and at the wrong end of the body.

Sartorial 'fireworks' should be expressed with shirt or tie (draws attention to your face). Shoes should be elegant, simple, and pleasing to the eye, not distracting. If you were to wear some of those shoes you posted with a business suit you'd look clueless.

They're one step up (or down, take your pick) the evolutionary shoe-ladder from those tan-coloured, pointy-toed monstrosities so-beloved of young men just-starting their careers.

Never aim to look like you've just-started.
 

The Shooman

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Shooey, those shoes with the fancy stitching are not pleasant to the eye.
I understand where you are coming from. Over 20 years ago l liked plain conservative shoes too. Actually my tastes were similar to yours. Those multi stitched shoes are an acquired taste, but they do have their place with certain types of casual clothing.

formby001 said:
Sartorial 'fireworks' should be expressed with shirt or tie (draws attention to your face). Shoes should be elegant, simple, and pleasing to the eye, not distracting. If you were to wear some of those shoes you posted with a business suit you'd look clueless.
You make good points, and of course one shouldn't wear them with a business suit or to a serious meeting because that would be stupid. Wearing such shoes depends on the situation.

These would be worn with trousers and an open necked shirt in a casual setting. I get bored with everyday blacks and browns so l like to take opportunities to mix it up.

formby001 said:
They're one step up (or down, take your pick) the evolutionary shoe-ladder from those tan-coloured, pointy-toed monstrosities so-beloved of young men just-starting their careers.

Never aim to look like you've just-started.
The time and place is really important. It doesn't have to look like you've just started. These are not shoe to wear at work.

Serious meetings = proper conservative footwear
Other times = flamboyant fun footwear can be worn, including greens, blues, reds etc.

That shoe above is miles above those pointed toe loafers you talk about. Quality speaks volumes about the person, especially when done on a tasteful last.
 
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formby001

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That shoe above is miles above those pointed toe loafers you talk about. Quality speaks volumes about the person, especially when done on a tasteful last.
I don't doubt the skill, and quality materials that go into making these shoes, its the aesthetics that I find questionable.
 

shookt

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Well, I'm here to bombard the thread with more stitching. New pair came in today, freshly hand welted with goyser stitch from Hungary - not going to see wear for a bit since its snowing somethin fierce right now...

Not true Budapesters but definitely captures the spirit. I'd happily wear this in a business casual or smart casual outfit.

2020-02-07 16.22.01.jpg
2020-02-07 16.22.21.jpg
2020-02-07 16.22.39.jpg
 

The Shooman

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I don't doubt the skill, and quality materials that go into making these shoes, its the aesthetics that I find questionable.

I remember seeing many of these types of shoes that were sold over 20 years ago locally at a warehouse for about 75% off. Great quality handmade shoes, but l always found them ugly. It wasn't until about 16 years ago that l really grew to like them. I asked the importer/owner recently why he stopped importing them and he told me that most people hated them (they were poor sellers) and most preferred the cheaper factory made shoes.


Well, I'm here to bombard the thread with more stitching. New pair came in today, freshly hand welted with goyser stitch from Hungary - not going to see wear for a bit since its snowing somethin fierce right now...

Not true Budapesters but definitely captures the spirit. I'd happily wear this in a business casual or smart casual outfit.

View attachment 33192View attachment 33193View attachment 33194
These types of shoes definitely have their place/. Obviously the Austro/Hungarian areas have different ideas about shoes too. Many businessmen wear them. Italian and English are different again.

shookt the great thing about these = the beautiful handwork and the great ride they offer. Nothing feels as good on the feet as these types of shoes. That is one of the great things about Vass, they feel fantastic! Factory shoes feel nothing like the handmades on the feet. It's the way the ltalians and A/H people build the shoes that makes them special.

I understand Formby's mindset completely. For suits I only wear conservative English shoes because l live in Australia and it is my mindset because we have the traditional English mindset (not so much for younger blokes). If l lived in Hungary my mindset would probably be very different when it comes it shoes.
 
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shookt

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I wear these (from Buday, also a Hungarian maker) when I have to suit up. At some point I hope to commission a pair of English-style balmoral plain toe oxfords from a local shoemaker.
2019-11-15 12.03.24.jpg
 

The Shooman

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Those Buday's aren't too bad for suit wearing when it comes from an English point of view. Some of the real highend English shoe wearing purists may still scoff, but overall it would still be considered a decent look in certain circles.

Captoe oxfords on the Vass P2 last work very well for English style shoes with a suit. Much better than the F last.
 

Rambo

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question for you guys - i took out a pair of my wolverine 1000 miles today after not having worn them in a long time. several years in fact. they'd been in the box with shoe trees in them. now, they're squeaking like an old hardwood floor every time i step. its audibly loud. any suggestions on fixing this?
Most likely its the shank
moisturize them. Then put some baby powder inside and shake them so it gets into the seams along the sock liner. Squeaking is usually one part of the shoe rubbing against another.
I think FXH captured the flag on this one. After an overnight baby powder dousing and full moisturizing after they're still squeaking. Seems to primarily be coming from the heel but i'm not 100% on that. Thoughts on what to do to try and fix them are welcome.
 

walker

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I think FXH captured the flag on this one. After an overnight baby powder dousing and full moisturizing after they're still squeaking. Seems to primarily be coming from the heel but i'm not 100% on that. Thoughts on what to do to try and fix them are welcome.
well, it can take some time until your measures are effective.

if it is the shank, you have to take them apart to find out. well, your cobbler and/or you send them in for factory refurbish. this would be your only options in this case.

before you go into this direction. does wolverine use a steel shank, a wooden or do they use a shank feather at all? it would be quite unusual, if the area would disintegrate just from a long storage, but who knows.? maybe the defect was already in the beginning before the storage and you just noticed it until now?
 

Rambo

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well, it can take some time until your measures are effective.

if it is the shank, you have to take them apart to find out. well, your cobbler and/or you send them in for factory refurbish. this would be your only options in this case.

before you go into this direction. does wolverine use a steel shank, a wooden or do they use a shank feather at all? it would be quite unusual, if the area would disintegrate just from a long storage, but who knows.? maybe the defect was already in the beginning before the storage and you just noticed it until now?
found this from a reddit post:

Wolverine - nylon and fiberglass (I only asked about 1000 mile boots) "The nylon and fiber glass shanks tend to be lighter however more durable than a plastic shank. The steel and wood shanks are durable, however can add weight to the footwear. The nylon and fiber glass shanks provide both durability without adding weight to the footwear."
 

walker

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found this from a reddit post:
well, adding weight. a steel shank weighs 5 grams.

this reddit post is informative about the construction, but won't help you on your issue. if the squeaking will not go away, I would send them in to the factory. you will be out of guarantee after all this time, but they should know best what to do, imo.

of course, if you have a very good cobbler around, you can pick another opinion and it is first hand versus "our" long distance analysis.
 

The Shooman

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The John Lobb bespoke wholecut that costs mega bucks. Likely much more now.

John Lobb bespoke - 7,600 GBP.jpg


Other great shoes. I would love to own these two pairs.
Paolo Scafora wholecuts.gif


I have wanted a green antiqued norvegese constructed wholecut for many years. I have ached for such a pair. Such a dream shoo!
Paolo Scafora 3.jpg
 
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Pimpernel Smith

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The John Lobb bespoke wholecut that costs mega bucks. Likely much more now.

View attachment 33196

Other great shoes. I would love to own these two pairs.
Those are an example of dainty looking shoes. Never go dainty, ever.

I want shoes that draw attention to being masculine, well constructed and a cut above the average. Which is, as you know, is very easy to accomplish these days. As everyone's walking around in either street wear, or cheap and nasty crap.
 

Dropbear

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I have a tonne of chelsea boots now, but the one thing I’m missing is a nice jodhpur. ...

 

The Shooman

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The single brick house v's the double brick house

I've gone on and on about this. Proper built shoes are a double brick house and hold their shape better than a single brick houses.

C&J benchgrade = single brick house
Carmina = single brick house
Church's (proper traditional pairs) = double brick house
E.G/G&G/Lobb = double brick house.

and now finally the pictures that compare

Single brick house:
- plastic shank and two layers of leather to keep the structure
- less work and materials used to build shoe
R.M.Williams - cut open 1.jpg


Double brick house:
- leather or wood shank and 3 layers of leather to keep the shape.
- more work, materials and skill used to build shoe.
Gaziano & Girling shoe - cut open.jpg



I also saw a Carmina cut open on Kirby's video that l meant to take a screen shot, but l forgot.
 

shookt

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Ah! My brother has a pair of Church's. I wonder if I'd be able to tell the difference between those and lower grade GYW shoes in terms of construction. I guess one can tell somewhat by the weight.
 

The Shooman

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Ah! My brother has a pair of Church's. I wonder if I'd be able to tell the difference between those and lower grade GYW shoes in terms of construction. I guess one can tell somewhat by the weight.
the pinch test and the walk test.

Some goodyear welted Church's are more flimsy and some feel more solid. Many of the new ones are more flimsy, and they are usually the ones in the more modern lasts.

What model does your brother have, and what last?
 

shookt

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Not sure about the details but its a semibrogue adelaide on a round toe last. What is the pinch test?
 

fxh

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I have a tonne of chelsea boots now, but the one thing I’m missing is a nice jodhpur. ...

Jodhpur boots are a pain - no matter what you do your leg opening/cuff will always be caught and look like shit
 

Dropbear

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Jodhpur boots are a pain - no matter what you do your leg opening/cuff will always be caught and look like shit
I dunno man, people say the same thing about the tugs on chelsea boots and I’ve never found it to be a big issue.
 

Thruth

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I actually do not find that jodhpurs cause cuff hangups. I get more hangups with boot pull tabs.

1581451172795.jpeg
 

The Shooman

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Not sure about the details but its a semibrogue adelaide on a round toe last. What is the pinch test?
You put a finger inside the shoe at the waist area and your thumb outside the shoe under the waist area and feel how thick it is in that area. The cheaper made shoes will be thinner in that area and feel more flimsy when walking where-as the better made shoes are always thicker in that area and more solid when walking. Better structure.

It makes sense when comparing middle of the road mid end shoes to higher level mid end shoes....a slightly more expensive shoe will give more handwork and materials inside and make for a better shoe worth the price. For a little bit extra paid you make a good jump from an ordinary built shoe to a shoe built to more higher end standards. People ask if the jump from C&J benchgrade to handgrade is worth it, and l say of course it is because you get better leather quality and finishing and more handwork that goes into a more solidly built shoe for only a small upcharge.


I actually do not find that jodhpurs cause cuff hangups. I get more hangups with boot pull tabs.

View attachment 33218
Well well well, typical @Truth with his well made manly shoos. @Truth, that boot looks very well made. It has character of a typical handmade shoe. Such a delight to the eyes. Love the sole edge and how the upper is attached to the welt, you don't see such beauty often. 😍
 

Thruth

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Well well well, typical @Truth with his well made manly shoos. @Truth, that boot looks very well made. It has character of a typical handmade shoe. Such a delight to the eyes. Love the sole edge and how the upper is attached to the welt, you don't see such beauty often. 😍
thanks The Shooman. Good eye. Big Johnny Lobb (St. James).
 

fxh

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I actually do not find that jodhpurs cause cuff hangups. I get more hangups with boot pull tabs.

View attachment 33218
On the farm we used to cut them off with a Stanley knife for just that reason>
Theres another trick on RMs if you care. Have the pull tabs taken off - then - sewn back on -down a few cm on the inside.
 
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