The All-Inclusive Shoe & Boot Thread

Lobbster

Well-Known Member
Messages
172
Vass will be affected by a shortage of skilled workes same as any other company producing in Eastern Europe. The fall of the Iron Curtain happened thrity years ago and nowadays most young Czechs go to university. The youngest who were trained as cobblers will be in their 50s with many having retired already. As they certainly won't have the time to train their younger workers properly lacklustre results will be taken as a sort of collteral damage.
 

sirloin

Well-Known Member
Messages
804
Wow those pairs doesn't look good. My pairs have been bought within the last 6, so they all have the pressed leather sole. The rest of the work looks fine.
No wonder stores are dropping them, if that's the sort of thing, that have passed QA. Also read the DW thread - Greg from Norman Walks Alone, says they have dropped them due to Vass selling into the US, and are now selling the rest of their stock.

Just imagine the well deserved complaints, getting in the Vass inbox :oops:

With the continued covid sale, stores dropping them and now this thing, they must be taking a beating. All for the better (for me..) if they scaled down and found back closer to where they started. Stop the silly I-gent designs and overproduction, and instead focus good shoes.
 

Thruth

thicker but more pliant than horsehide
Moderator
Supporter
Messages
20,017
I am shocked at seeing that heel. All my pairs have hand stacked heel leather and are of high quality. One of my wholecuts has higher quality leather upper than my Materna bespoke. I am a very big fan of Vass.

I can tell fiber board heels. None of my Vass have that look.

Vass used to be a quiet maker, then came the silly guys (online Vass sellers and internet igents), then came the greed and cost cutting.

I am shocked.

Check this out. Really poorly crafted Vass Crooked welt and crooked channel cut. How embarrassing.
View attachment 34178View attachment 34179
there was also the rumour a few years ago that they were doing GYW and not all shoes were had sewn.
One look at their website tells me their shoes are between 200 to 400€ exluding VAT, what do people expect? Saint Crispin's ask 3 or 4 times as much producing in Romania.

Never got the hype around this brand. Every pair I've ever handeled has been of mediocre quality while the upcharges by the sellers are quite healthy. Hand-welting or not, I'd rather have a GYW shoe of reliable quality than taking a gamble. The local shop has dropped them for this very reason as both the customers and him got fed up. I've little doubt that their shoes were of higher quality 20 years back given the raw material also were but producing these shoes in 21 century Europe they will have to cut corners as sf-type customers are usually the first ones to ambandon ship when prices increase or when the flavour of the month hype comes to an end.
The drop off in quality was not 20 years ago, certainly not in materials or craftsmanship as I have multiple pairs of Vass circa the early 2000's to 2012 which was the last time I ordered them. Never bought RTW, never used proxies or re-sellers and always dealt with Vass directly. All of them delivered into my hands within the stated 6 weeks. The biggest issue was them doing a HAF sole instead of a straight double sole one one pair. No shite leather, fibreboard or construction flaws at that time.

Dealing with Vass directly could be a chore. There were also rumours several years back of the possibility that some were GYW owing to increased productivity demands but no definite proof. There were shortages of wood and people to craft their 3-piece shoes trees in the past. Popularity and demand directly influenced this.

A Vass aficionado here commented on my poor choice of Ludwig Reiter over Vass for my Norwegers. Maybe not such a bad choice after all given that that individual is now shocked, shocked at Vass' underhandedness!

You have bought into the GYW hype somewhat as your statement should include other machine welted shoes like Blake and Blake Rapid as "machine welted shoes of reliable quality". Which GYW shoes are your measuring stick? Please don't hold up Carmina as the prime example because they are over-hyped too for what you get and their pricing has steadily crept up. AE's are GYW shoes of "reliable quality" in that they are perfectly serviceable with fibreboard in the heel stack and wonky stitching occasionally. You just have to like the last shapes.

St. Crispin's are an example of a shoe brand that was positioned as high end from the beginning but priced relative to high end RTW to capture a market niche given that they had lower production costs in Transylvania. However, in the early days before the forum hype, I could contact Phillip directly and order a pair and they have at least doubled in price since I bought last in 2010. They started out as primarily MTO and then blew up into so much RTW. They would mail leather samples for your perusal. Don't know if they still do.
 

Kingstonian

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,973
I can tell fiber board heels. None of my Vass have that look.
I am not sure I could, unless your man ripped them apart in front of me.

It is the inside of a sandwich where you cannot peek under the top slice. A tiny edge is not much on which to form an opinion.

I don’t know what difference it will make either. Will it wear out quicker? Even if it does, the cobbler in the High Street is capable of doing heel work and it should not be expensive.

Yes, you lose bragging rights - but unless you have paid over the odds it’s not the end of the world. Unless you are the type of person that lies awake at night worrying about gemming failure.
 
Last edited:

shookt

Well-Known Member
Messages
147
This is sad...and also the main reason why I avoided Vass on my trip to Budapest. Back then it was mostly shoddy outsole work and rumors of GYW but it looks like more evidence of cost-cutting measures and lost traditions are being posted.
 

The Shooman

A Pretty Face
Messages
2,546
there was also the rumour a few years ago that they were doing GYW and not all shoes were had sewn.
That was a stupid rumour apparently started by a respected shoemaker who thought Vass were GYW. They were not, and l wrote to Vass to have it confirmed.


Thruth said:
The biggest issue was them doing a HAF sole instead of a straight double sole one one pair.
Yep, the HAF's were always unbalanced. Needed an extra layer of leather on the heels. My pair were like that along with forum pairs l saw.



Thruth said:
Dealing with Vass directly could be a chore. There were also rumours several years back of the possibility that some were GYW owing to increased productivity demands but no definite proof. There were shortages of wood and people to craft their 3-piece shoes trees in the past. Popularity and demand directly influenced this.
Makes me wonder if they will start doing GYW, but somehow l seriously doubt they will. The handmades are a huge selling point.

Extra demand has shown because some of the Vass now amateur quality stitching on the soles.


Thruth said:
A Vass aficionado here commented on my poor choice of Ludwig Reiter over Vass for my Norwegers. Maybe not such a bad choice after all given that that individual is now shocked, shocked at Vass' underhandedness!
:cry:


Thruth said:
You have bought into the GYW hype somewhat as your statement should include other machine welted shoes like Blake and Blake Rapid as "machine welted shoes of reliable quality".
Not directed at me, but blake construction really is a cheap factory construction breaking the golden rules of `do no harm'. They use machines which rip up the insoles and uppers on resoles, and this limits the life of the shoe as well as can change the way it fits because the insole can also be separated from the upper in the repair process. Same goes with cheap brass screwed construction (even worse) and the stitchdown construction. All dubious constructions. GYW has faults too, but it is not as bad as those shockers just mentioned.


Thruth said:
Which GYW shoes are your measuring stick? Please don't hold up Carmina as the prime example because they are over-hyped too for what you get and their pricing has steadily crept up.
Carmina are for people who buy with their eyes. A real shooman would never wear such pairs because it doesn't offer the true shoo experience. Carmina uses less handwork and leather so it is cheaper priced. I would avoid all those beautiful cheap GYW's, they are entry level shoos and not the real deal GYW's. You get what you pay for. Sadly the top GYW shoos are very expensive, but it is what it is.


Thruth said:
St. Crispin's are an example of a shoe brand that was positioned as high end from the beginning but priced relative to high end RTW to capture a market niche given that they had lower production costs in Transylvania. However, in the early days before the forum hype, I could contact Phillip directly and order a pair and they have at least doubled in price since I bought last in 2010. They started out as primarily MTO and then blew up into so much RTW. They would mail leather samples for your perusal. Don't know if they still do.
I avoided this company because of all the red flags. It turns out my intuition was right all along according to secret reports. Glad l avoided them.

My intuition was always right about certain top shoemakers. You can tell a company by how the business owners act. I had people come to me and tell me they had been so naive in trusting certain makers and asked me how l knew they were so dubious?? My answer = you just know a ratbag when you meet him.

I can tell a ratbag within minutes of meeting him. Some of these guys have been told to get lost by various people....shoos are not their passion...they are sharks hunting for naive people to milk.
 
Last edited:

The Shooman

A Pretty Face
Messages
2,546
You see, a shooman knows his own kind. I also know an impostor when l see one. There are so many fake shoomen out there. You can't fake being a shooman, you're either born with it (shoos in your blood) or you're not. I see a lot of fake shoomen with no passion and no real knowledge, the industries are full of them. I suss these people out real quick, and they usually know that l know. I can name the big names....most are just people working for dollars and trading on a grand name.
 
Last edited:

Enrile

Well-Known Member
Messages
112
Once talking to a sole tanner, I asked him why he would stop making green sole (wonderful traditional tanned sole) extremely sturdy and enjoyable to sew.
He replied that it sold very little, it cost twice as much as normal, for you it is little because you hardly make 80 pairs a year. But for any manufacturer that makes between 80 and 120 a day, any cut is a lot of money. Maybe that's why many brands end up cutting back on some things that seem ridiculous.
 

The Shooman

A Pretty Face
Messages
2,546
My new bespoke shoemaker and I agreed to cancel my project. My feet have changed and he can't get the fit right on this pair to our satisfaction. I am deeply disappointed, this pair was going to be a stunner in a french chameleon green patina, but alas I had to come to terms with it and acknowledge l can't have everything and sometimes dreams don't come true. All my dreams of bespoke crocadile shoes, navy/white specs, perfect black captoe oxfords and fire engine red patina shoes etc have all been dashed. It is very disappointing.

I am going to make up for it with a really nice treat, a top of the line bespoke sportscoat with all the trimmings. It's S.R kind of bucks, but l want a masterpiece. It will be a simple navy sportscoat. I don't indulge like this too much, but l want to have a bit of fun.
 

The Shooman

A Pretty Face
Messages
2,546
My shoemaker has worked at some of the most famous shoemaking houses in the world and has great skills, but he told me that there were numerous clients who the houses turned away because they couldn't get the fit ideal. He does everything himself including last making and patina.
 

Rambo

Supporter of Possible Sexual Deviants
Moderator
Supporter
Messages
30,066
My new bespoke shoemaker and I agreed to cancel my project. My feet have changed and he can't get the fit right on this pair to our satisfaction. I am deeply disappointed, this pair was going to be a stunner in a french chameleon green patina, but alas I had to come to terms with it and acknowledge l can't have everything and sometimes dreams don't come true. All my dreams of bespoke crocadile shoes, navy/white specs, perfect black captoe oxfords and fire engine red patina shoes etc have all been dashed. It is very disappointing.

I am going to make up for it with a really nice treat, a top of the line bespoke sportscoat with all the trimmings. It's S.R kind of bucks, but l want a masterpiece. It will be a simple navy sportscoat. I don't indulge like this too much, but l want to have a bit of fun.
Out of curiosity, what changed with your feet?
 

Journeyman

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Messages
3,602
Out of curiosity, what changed with your feet?
Perhaps he didn't pay his previous shoemaker so he paid Shooey a visit with his shoemaker's hammer to teach him a lesson?! :p


That was a joke, by the way - I'm not suggesting that Shooey buys shoes, doesn't pay for them and gets his feet hammered as punishment.

Maybe he has gout - although if anyone on this site should have gout, it's Fwiffo.
 

Rambo

Supporter of Possible Sexual Deviants
Moderator
Supporter
Messages
30,066
Perhaps he didn't pay his previous shoemaker so he paid Shooey a visit with his shoemaker's hammer to teach him a lesson?! :p


That was a joke, by the way - I'm not suggesting that Shooey buys shoes, doesn't pay for them and gets his feet hammered as punishment.

Maybe he has gout - although if anyone on this site should have gout, it's Fwiffo.
not necessarily. people's feet change with age. they tend to flatten out and get wider in general. sometimes they get fatter or thinner, obviously. arches collapse, people get hammer toe, etc.. you'd be amazed at all of the individual foot maladies that are out there.
 

Journeyman

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Messages
3,602
^ Yes, I know that people's feet change with age and that they often get larger.

I was just making some poor attempts at humour.
 

Sprezzatura

Active Member
Messages
30
ok, for ever and out.

we have the "fritzl lounge'", ASSHAT ASSHAT loves this place, I think.

I chose my styfo nick in reference to a very special person in my life, a few years later a guy with a family name fritzl was revealed as the master of the "fritzl lounge", check.

please tell me, how you can make a connection to me and this guy? G. think about it.

your forum members ASSHAT ASSHAT foxandhound formby001, honestlsy not sure about the latter, could easily wade into territories which are under the belt line.

if this is the standard Rambo Rambo , doghouse and you G. prefer, just let me know.
I love your user name Fritzl on SF. It was especially great when your user name was Fritzl and your password was Walker on SF. Also loved your password Fritzl on DW, with the user name Walker. Don't need to be an elite hacker to crack that code. ololololo.
stick to shoo shining boy, no career for you in cyber security. also another perfect example of your very low level of intellect.
ASSHAT ASSHAT is this W walker really the guy named fritzl on sf? Hahahaha, with his Austrian counrty bumkpin clodhoppers? Wow. Those shoes are made for working on an eastern european farm. Give me my sleek italian goodyear welted santonis any day of the year.
 

shookt

Well-Known Member
Messages
147
I avoided this company because of all the red flags. It turns out my intuition was right all along according to secret reports. Glad l avoided them.
What's the story behind StC? I've never liked them either, a bunch of things about their shoes seem flimsy.
 

Rambo

Supporter of Possible Sexual Deviants
Moderator
Supporter
Messages
30,066
I had prepared a detailed response but l have decided not to send it. Why? Best not to give energy to it.
fair enough. was simply curious if it was age or something else. i know how frustrating that can be.
 

robertito

Well-Known Member
Messages
895
Enrile,please post the pictures of the cordovan tassels you have in the blog. One of my favorite shoes of yours.
 

Journeyman

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Messages
3,602
Someone over on SF just related a rather bizarre experience they had in communicating with Cleverley:


Styleforum 01.jpeg

Styleforum 02.jpeg

Styleforum 03.jpeg

Styleforum 04.jpeg



So he asked whether GC's shoes are handwelted, and ended up being insulted and told me that he wasn't good enough to wear their shoes.

I can understand that people working for shoe and clothing companies might get tired of dealing with questions from people who read some comments on an internet forum and then think that they know about shoes or clothes, but that’s still very odd behaviour.
 

The Shooman

A Pretty Face
Messages
2,546
Someone over on SF just related a rather bizarre experience they had in communicating with Cleverley:


View attachment 34839
View attachment 34840
View attachment 34841
View attachment 34842


So he asked whether GC's shoes are handwelted, and ended up being insulted and told me that he wasn't good enough to wear their shoes.

I can understand that people working for shoe and clothing companies might get tired of dealing with questions from people who read some comments on an internet forum and then think that they know about shoes or clothes, but that’s still very odd behaviour.
Looks like he is drunk again. Did he post at midnight again?

btw, he is wrong. A.C are goodyear welted, NOT hand welted. Then again, you can't expect those upstarts to know much. Like many in charge, they don't know what they are selling, this Cleverley bloke is the same as another famous person at Edward Green....gives the wrong answer to a simple question. They aren't in the industry through love, and they have no good product knowledge.

They loathe people who post on the forums, "they aren't our type of customer", they "are idiots". Then again, l can hardly blame them for being like that, igents say the dumbest stuff about shoos.
 
Last edited:

The Shooman

A Pretty Face
Messages
2,546
A bloke tried to put a toe plate on his BIG Johnny Lobbs and broke them.
John Lobb - toe plate ruined them.jpg


Serious damage. Broke the inseaming stitch so they needed to be rewelted. The screws dig into the upper too, ie, no need to stitch the uppers, just use screws to hold them together. :cry: :lolguy:
 

Thruth

thicker but more pliant than horsehide
Moderator
Supporter
Messages
20,017
Well Jr. is not much of an asset to GC but the OP seems to be a ‘tard as well. He can’t figure out why Jr. might be juiced at 1 AM in LA when it is tea time in HK.
 

Thruth

thicker but more pliant than horsehide
Moderator
Supporter
Messages
20,017
Smart phones have a lot to answer for...
true though I’ve never contacted a bespoke maker or any shop via IG. But I’m small time unlike the OP who will try and have cordovan shoes made by any maker from TLB Mallorca to Meccariello.
 

formby002

Well-Known Member
Messages
433
true though I’ve never contacted a bespoke maker or any shop via IG. But I’m small time unlike the OP who will try and have cordovan shoes made by any maker from TLB Mallorca to Meccariello.
Reading that thread Jnr seems to be a bit of a prick.
 

formby002

Well-Known Member
Messages
433
^I also noticed, that in one picture posted it says he's wearing Rubinacci.

LOL...

1596386252306.png
 
Last edited:

Thruth

thicker but more pliant than horsehide
Moderator
Supporter
Messages
20,017
Reading that thread Jnr seems to be a bit of a prick.
Consensus seems to be that both senior and junior are. Luckily I never ever had to interact with either of them, only Dominic Casey.
 

formby002

Well-Known Member
Messages
433
Consensus seems to be that both senior and junior are. Luckily I never ever had to interact with either of them, only Dominic Casey.
I've never been tempted to have bespoke shoes made...always been happy with RTW, or MTO variants.
 
Top Bottom