THE Necktie Thread

Chorn

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Post all things necktie related here. I proclaim myself arbiter of neckties by right of being the first person to start this thread (logic permitting, only person as well). I proclaim jrd arbiter of neckties because he has an awesome collection (iirc).

This tie makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. Unlined 6 fold grenadine from Panta, it is probably my favorite tie, and thus, I rarely wear it.



I want all the ties in the following picture:


I do not understand the appeal of this tie--perhaps I am of the unitiated:


Nor does this appeal to me.



I do not understand the appeal of neats, other than that they work well with striped shirts (and thus provide an alternative to solids, wonderfully textured though they may be). All things neat related, I leave to jrd.
 

Chorn

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I often wonder: what will be the geometric tie of the oughts (and now the teens)? I hope I don't own any. Geometric ties are ugly. If I was wearing ties back when they were big, perhaps I would feel differently. I wasn't, so I don't.

If there is anything which, a decade from now, will inspire scoffs of "uch, that's very early 2010's," I suspect it will be slubby raw silk.



I like it. In fact, I own it. I just don't imagine it will ever be a classic in much the sense that many other ties are.

Another type of tie I like but which will probably elicit a "wtf" ten years down the line:

I feel like this needs Selsun Blue. Still, it's a beautiful tie. I have something similar, but brownish-orange, from Mountain & Sackett.


Thinking about it, however, neither of these approach the ubiquity of the geometric tie, which leaves me wondering a second question.

What was the raw silk tie of the early 90s?
 

Russell Street

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I'm not relating at all here because most of my ties are ten years old or more, from a time when thick reppe or a woven pattern was considered substantial texture.

Maybe I can help on the neat thing, but I need to clarify terms. Neat means foulard to me, printed on woven fabric. Without some amount of color and proper scale, they can be pointless, but good ones are amazingly practical. If you're referring to the oddball embroidery on grenadine, I am equally puzzled by their existence.

So am I totally passe in continuing on with woven silk ties that generally have a 1980s Brooks Brothers look?
 

Chorn

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Chorn

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Is it because it is covered with my flaking, dry ejaculate?
 

Chorn

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On a different note, I am not enamored with unlined 6 and 7 folds. The folds can make an odd impression on the tie blade, so I generally steer clear of them (with the exception of grenadine, where this isn't a problem). I have a tie from Panta where this is particularly an issue.

This isn't it (though it is a Panta), but you can see what I'm talking about:


This isn't a problem with any lined 6/7 folds I have. Just unlined. Blech.
 

Betelgeuse

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I don't have a lot of ties, cause I don't have to wear them everyday, I hope with this new era I'm starting I will, but I have a few that are my favourites (don't pay attention to the combos, just the ties):

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Friday-Challenge.jpg
 

Chorn

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Anybody have any ties from Tie Your Tie? I've handled a few, and I honestly don't understand how they are so expensive. They don't have brand recognition (though perhaps they do amongst their target demographic). I realize that some of it is because it's Veblen good, but usually there is some ostensible benefit, even if it doesn't justify the price, to such a product.
 

Chorn

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I will absafuckinglutely talk to myself about neckties in this thread. Just so we're clear.
 

Chorn

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Raw silk grenadine is beautiful. But that tie is definitely something that might be considered very 2010's at some point in the future. As I mused earlier, raw silk may be the geometric tie of this decade.

I would of course still wear that tie. Because fuck man, it's beautiful.

Any other options for the geometric tie of this era?
 
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Rambo

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Lol I should have cleaned it all up first but one day you neat fuckers will have kid's clinging on when you get home also. The clingers make life rock though FYI.
Clinger free is the way to be!

here are my hobers

Thank god for the stripe. Otherwise, I was going to say you had a pattern obsession.
 

Chorn

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Are pindots considered neats?

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I wouldn't be surprised to see grossa grenadines being considered 2010's. I don't think the tighter ones will be--fina type grenadines have been worn pretty regularly since at least the 1960s. I'm not sure what kind of knits you're referring to, but I also think the standard Yount knits are pretty classic and won't age overly much.

Skinny ties I think are going to be very dated, but I'm not sure if they're worn by the modern day equivalent of the businessmen in geometric prints.

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jrd: I need to buy a few neats. At about 85 SF approved ties, I don't have a single neat. I may message you sometime in September for feedback on a few.
 

Chorn

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They seem to be playing the "artisanal stuff from the motherland" angle. In this instance, they get extra credibility by piggybacking on the reputations of Kiton and Attolini, with whom they have supposedly worked "closely". As for their pricing strategy, I imagine that -- regardless of what you're trying to sell -- if you want to compete with goods who are all Veblen goods, you have to enter the market at roughly their price point, lest the consumer will think of your product as inferior.
But at $250 (and about 300 USD here in Korea), aren't they even a bit above Kiton's price point?

Looks fine to me
This is a Panta from the same type of silk as the one I posted above. You can't see the folds' outline as they are covered by the jacket, but you can definitely see how this silk would've benefited from a lining.


Does your wife know you talk to men on the internet like this?
Very no.
 

Chorn

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I don't know what the texture is (other than from using thicker yarn perhaps), but I am liking it (the texture, not the tie nor the color).

Not a fan of the epaulet tie, especially at that price point. Hard to imagine not having 2 or 3 better options in any given fit, but fleur de lis aren't my thing to begin with. Still, at that price, I'd definitely go Drakes, Hober, Panta or get two of something midlevel but quality, Howard Yount.

This epaulet, though, is lovely.
 

Rambo

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Tie is cute, but that combination leaves something to be desired.
 

Chorn

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There is absolutely (probably) a place for ties like that. I sort of put them into the same category of Hermes and Ferragamo type ties, with whales and puppies riding bicycles and the like. But I think in order for them to (sort of) work, they need to be against an absolutely plain background. I think even blue would be pushing it a bit far. If you've little deers running in repeated patterns all over your tie, everything else needs to be CBD.
 

Chorn

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Why pointed knits are superior to square knits:

With a square end, you've got to basically get the tie to stop at your belt. Too high or too low, it'll look ridiculous (basically like someone cut the end off your tie). If it ends at the belt, no big deal; there is already some sort of visual border there...otherwise....tie circumcision. A pointed end allows the shift from "tie" to "no tie" as you move down the outfit to be more gradual and therefore pleasing to the eye. I have one square end knit. I have ten pointed.

In a very casual context, a square end might be superior to a pointed end. This is only because it'll match with the level of formality better...nothing to do with aesthetics...it still looks like you've tied a fucking sock around your neck.
 

Zé Ferreira

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So, Chorn, explain to me in the most basic way possible what makes a good tie "good."

Not that I don't trust you, but I'd like to be able to elaborate myself when my wife asks why I'm getting into another money-sucking habit...

Why is that Epaulet tie overpriced for what it is? Why are Banana Republic ties generally crap?

What about Rob's Yellow Hook Tie Co?
 

Russell Street

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It's been a decade or so since I started refusing to buy machine-sewn ties. Am I being overly pedantic? I think there is a substantial difference in quality of knot, hand, drape.
On the above whale tie, see how the lower corners are not quite level? That's something that always bugged me. Again, am I too picky?

Lastly, if anyone has a lead on the old J.Press "Three Monkeys" emblematic tie, I'd like one of those.
 

Chorn

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So, Chorn, explain to me in the most basic way possible what makes a good tie "good."

Not that I don't trust you, but I'd like to be able to elaborate myself when my wife asks why I'm getting into another money-sucking habit...

Why is that Epaulet tie overpriced for what it is? Why are Banana Republic ties generally crap?

What about Rob's Yellow Hook Tie Co?
I've been waiting a few hours to get this (out and about, and I wasn't about to try and answer this on mobile).

I'll forgo any supply-demand related explanations of price.

First, I think that tie is priced correctly. Square end wouldn't be, as those are much easier to construct. Creating the point on a knit looks pretty tricky (seems like it require handwork and you can't roll it as you would a normal silk tie). This is just from looking at my ties; I don't have any experience making or sourcing them. But there is a reason you can get square end knits more cheaply.

Second, Banana Republic ties aren't awful. But they also aren't worth the money--there are comparably or close to comparably priced alternatives out there of significantly higher quality--assuming we are talking full price. $20 at an outlet probably isn't a bad deal. I wouldn't buy it, but that is only because I probably already have a better alternative. There are also two sources for BR ties, and they are priced accordingly. Some ties are made in China while others are made in Italy. There is a noticeable difference in quality. I've owned both. The only Banana Republic tie in anything close to rotation (worn at least once in the year) is my black on black floral tie. I use it for funerals. It ties a decent knot and is an all around serviceable tie.

The price difference between something from Banana Republic--or even somewhere like Brooks Brothers--and Sam Hober or Marinella probably arises from two non-economic proximal causes: construction and material.

A lot of the nice ties require some level of handwork. This alone does make a difference in quality; it also allows the tie manufacturer to do more with their ties, so you have a larger variety in tie construction with higher end ties. Whether you want to pay for this variety in construction is another matter. Do handrolled untipped ties have any advantages, probably not. 6 fold? Definitely. Better knot and ultimately sturdier construction.

You also have the way the wool lining (provided it is lined) is sewn/otherwise attached to the tie. A lot of lower end ties, Banana Republic included, will simply glue the wool to the tie. This can lead to problems with drape as the silk isn't able to shift properly as you move around, sit down, and as the tie ages. Parts of the lining may become detached while others remain fastened, leading to odd wrinkles.

Which should probably bring us to materials. Not all ties have wool linings (again, we're looking top down, so I'm not bothering to address unlined ties). Some will have some sort of synthetic fabric which is significantly inferior to wool when it comes to drape (wool makes for good suits because wrinkles fall out naturally...I suspect this is part of the reason that it is used for tie linings). And not all wool is equal...you definitely have ties with better quality wool than others.

Both the wool and the quality of silk will affect the ease with which you can knot the tie and the beauty of the knot. Cheap thick (thick allowing for a lower thread count) silk and bad wool render the tie blade inflexible and thus you can't make a nice cinched knot. A good tie is a difficult balance--it's got to be firm enough to maintain shape, heavy enough to drape well, and flexible enough to create a smooth, tight knot. You aren't getting this with something from Banana Republic:



There is probably other stuff. There might even be other stuff I know. But I'm not David Hober. I ran out of steam.

Oh, and for some reason, and I swear this is more than my brain picking up on price as a signal for quality or beauty, nicer tie brands seem to have more attractive designs. On one hand, it seems like it can't be that difficult to create a tie design. On the other hand, even when it comes to solids, stripes, and simple patterns, nicer tie brands seem to be more attractive.

As for the whale tie: it's a preppy look. Very Vineyard Vines. Not my bag of tea, but I wouldn't throw it on my tie fire that I keep burning 24/7
 
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Chorn

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On a related note, apparently Banana Republic is selling grenadines. There are only two mills which produce grenadine silk (Bianchi and Fossati), so it's got to be from one of those places. That being said, I'm betting dollars to donuts that the wool lining on these is thick and unwieldy. Kent Wang is a great guy and I love a lot of his ties, but the one grenadine I have from him has a super thick lining that all but ruins the knot for me. That being said, at $42 dollars, if I didn't already own two black grenadines, I'd definitely pick this up:



http://bananarepublic.gap.com/browse/product.do?cid=71344&vid=1&pid=558677002
 

Zé Ferreira

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I still work PT at BR, so I had to ask about the brand from an outsider who won't be trying to shovel crap. Some of the ties are very serviceable (IMO), but most of them are made in SEAsia now. Anything made in Italy is very hard to come by and usually reserved for the Monogram line (if that - almost everything is from China now, according to the labels).

However, I have BR ties from 5 years ago that were still made in the USA or Italy which do tie and hold up better than the modern, flimsy-feeling equivalents.

Thanks, Chorn
 

Betelgeuse

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Chorn... when you talk of "high end" ties (I don't know a lot about ties) which ties are involved here? I used to buy a lot of Ermenegildo Zegna's thinking that they were one of the best.

Around here we don't have access to nice ties, only at Antonio Solito for example, they sell Borrelli... they have the same one I bought from Spoo... I got that one for $50 dollars, they wanted to sell it for me at $250... so, no way. We get here the usual, E Zegna, Carolina Herrera, and well in Saks Brioni, Charvet and I think that would be all.
 

Chorn

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The first real tie I owned, Thomas Pink (made in France). I got it in 2006 and wore the hell out of it until about 2010. I'm talking like....once a week, at least. I didn't know how to take care for ties, so I was just yanking the tie loose from a HW knot. You can see the signs of abuse on the corners of the tie where the silk has frayed. Alas, this tie will not be worn again. It is retired. But I keep it around because it makes sure the other ties don't get too uppity (it lets them know their place. This tie is well aware that it was my first and goes to great lengths to remind the others).
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The Banana Republic tie I mentioned earlier. It is, as I said, decent. On closer examination, I was impressed by the silk; the paisley motif is stitched on.
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We were talking about knit construction. Here are four knits, Hugo Boss, A Suitable Wardrobe, Kent Wang, and Howard Yount. What I found most interesting is that the Hugo Boss knit was woven looped...it didn't need to be stitched together as the other three did. Which is really quite fantastic because that seam is often visible in my other knits, especially on the tie knot.
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A quick shot of their tips, front
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Chorn

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Of all my knits or of those four? And in terms of construction quality or design?

I own silk knits from Howard Yount (5), Kent Wang (2), A Suitable Wardrobe (1) Rooster (1) and Hugo Boss (1). For some reason I thought I had more than this. I should probably purchase a few more.

Design wise, I like the Yount's the best. They're also wider (3 inches). Construction-wise, they aren't as good at the Boss, Wang, or ASW ties. ASW and Boss are the best of the lot in terms of construction. That the Boss is so well made surprises me. I still have two Hugo Boss ties that are in "rotation". One of them is definitely in my top ten ties as far as knotting ability. I don't know if there are different tiers of Hugo Boss ties or I just got lucky with those two. The other Hugo Boss ties I've owned--before SF--were middling at best.

The other Boss:
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El Argentino note how the dimple smoothly rolls into the rest of the blade. That's due to a good wool lining (I think)
 
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Rambo

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Interesting. What is it about the Yount design that you find most appealing? Just the width?
 

Chorn

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I've never come across a 7 fold making a small knot (actually, the Panta I posted earlier in the thread sort of does), but I'll generally take a superior wool lining on a three/four fold over most six/seven folds (grenadine being an exception). I think people covet the extra folds more for their drape than for their knots.
I don't know if it's been said here yet, but Kiton seven folds make terrible knots.

On a different note, I'm a fan of partially lined ties. I don't know why. From Unipair.

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