The Plant Based Diet - the Meat is Killing Us

OfficePants

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Pretty startling evidence that the meat centered diet is the cause of most heart disease.

Examines the profound claim that most, if not all, of the degenerative diseases that afflict us can be controlled or even reversed by eliminating our present menu of animal-based and processed foods.

I was taken aback at the changes in the folks they followed in the documentary. I learned a lot watching this, I highly recommend it.

Forks-Over-Knives-Movie-Poster.jpg
 
I can't see if there's a link. :challengefailed-71:

But anyway I will like to give my opinion about the processed foods. I am very interested in the fitness world so diets are everything for us. I used to be a "Clean Eater" and don't eat this and don't eat that becuase that shit is going to kill you. Right now I'm following one that is called If It Fits Your Macros - IIFYM, and basically I eat everything I want and I achieve my goals. A lot of people have tremendous trouble to understand this and immediately think that this is not possible, but this is because they are not used to count their macros, they usually say "I eat <<healthy>>" (whatever does tha mean to you) or "I count my calories" and most of them are below they calorie intake they should have.

I don't eat a lot of meat, but that's just becuase I like to eat a lot of things but, I eat according to my macros. I usually hit 190-200g of protein, 40-50g of fat and 245g of carbs. As long as it fits in there I can eat it. The problem I see is, that no one show us to eat this way. They teach us that McDonald's and Burger King are going to make us fat... and sorry, but that it's not what's happening in there.

The problem is that people go to a Burger King or McDonland's and in the best case they eat two hamburgers without the fries when they should only eat one. And then they get home and have for dinner two hotdogs, plus what they ate in the breakfast and if they felt hungry maybe they bought a bag of potato chips. That person probably ate more fat and more carbs than their needed intake.

I just recently went to a lab for a study and they told me that everything is working fine and my daily diet includes Pop Tarts, Peanut Butter, Nutella, Chicken breast, pasta, protein shakes, etc, of course I don't smoke and I don't drink, that should help I guess. I remember when I told my sister about this, she didn't believed me, then I told her to register all his foods and portions, she was surprised of how much more fat and carbs she was eating and how low her protein intake was. She started with IIFYM and she has already lost a few pounds and she doesn't even go to the gym, she just eat according to his goal.

My point is: if people were taught to count their macros according to their normal activity levels, we would be very different. It's good if someone doesn't want to inlcude red meat to their diets, I usually eat it 2 or 3 days a week, but still you will see how much you are over-eating. :herpderp:
 
To some extent I agree, but the causality between the "western diet" and degenerative disease is pretty clear.

Another area of concern is that drug companies make money selling pills not teaching nutrition. The people were changing their eating habits to a plant based diet and their conditions disappeared, to the powers that be, that may as well be disappearing profits. These are no longer lifelong customers.

So to your point, over-eating exists, but this issue is more directly linked to diet and not consumption. I mean you can eat lettuce all day and never gain an ounce.

To many, they'd take the drugs anyway rather than change their greasy fried chicken, barbeque, and fast food. But at least this way its an informed decision.
 
To some extent I agree, but the causality between the "western diet" and degenerative disease is pretty clear.

Another area of concern is that drug companies make money selling pills not teaching nutrition. The people were changing their eating habits to a plant based diet and their conditions disappeared, to the powers that be, that may as well be disappearing profits. These are no longer lifelong customers.


This! I'm tired of hearing people "This girl took this pills and she lost 5 kg in one week!" To loose 5kg in a week it's not good for you, probably you are killing yourself! People and their quest for a magic pill.
 
They have it... Lipitor. They can eat shit and this medication covers most of it up.
 
I am very prone to agree with this. First of all, modern meat is from overfed, overdrugged, unexercised animals on the verge of death, not some running, grazing animal that had a happy life.
My friend is a boob that is still on the lame anti-carb nonsense. The latest is some nonsense called paleo, meant to emulate prehistoric man's diet, because they lived so long and were in such prime shape (???) Needless to say, someone whose idea of a diet involves pounds of jerky is still rotund.

I'm the son of depression-era parents, and a dietician at that. Portions were limited, meals were round. As with liquor, if you keep consuming at a decent pace till you achieve your desired satiety, you'll go too far. I eat slow and enjoy, don't stuff myself. HFCS is poison. Meat is minimal because it's harder to cook, costs more, and just isn't that interesting.

The two tenets I believe in are:
1. Don't eat anything that your ancestors would not recognize as food, i.e. food, not food products. WTF is a hot pocket?
2. Don't eat till you are stuffed.
That's it. Oh, actually my mother the dietician says that osteoporosis is from an inbalanace (read, excess) of animal proteins and has little to do with calcium.
 
I'm the son of depression-era parents, and a dietician at that. Portions were limited, meals were round. As with liquor, if you keep consuming at a decent pace till you achieve your desired satiety, you'll go too far. I eat slow and enjoy, don't stuff myself. HFCS is poison. Meat is minimal because it's harder to cook, costs more, and just isn't that interesting.

This is key. Well said. :ThankYou:
 
I've been a vegetarian for about 18 years but have just started being a healthy vegetarian in the past two. Not that I ever ate much junk food, my diet though, was heavily reliant on processed soy products (veggie burgers, chicken, hot dogs, sandwich meat, tofurkey, etc.) While all that stuff is fucking delicious (Tofurkey with gravy, stuffing and mashed potatoes is like getting a blowjob from an angel while laying on a bed of rose petals), it is not necessarily good for you to consume on any sort of regular basis.
 
I am very prone to agree with this. First of all, modern meat is from overfed, overdrugged, unexercised animals on the verge of death, not some running, grazing animal that had a happy life.

Regarding this... I agree completely. A few months ago I was talking to my uncle, he used to had 3 ranches and one of their main products was beef. But this was in the late 80's he used to feed his animals the propper way and that stuff, but nowadays it's complicated to find that.

Now... what about Kobe Beef?

My friend is a boob that is still on the lame anti-carb nonsense. The latest is some nonsense called paleo, meant to emulate prehistoric man's diet, because they lived so long and were in such prime shape (???) Needless to say, someone whose idea of a diet involves pounds of jerky is still rotund.


Yeap, heard about that. If I don't remember well, they didn't live for that long. And I was curious about that diet... I'm Mexican, my ancestors used to based their diets in corn and beans... so I have to stop eating them? Didn't make sense to me and I get lost in the dates of prehistoric man's and the cultures in Mexico.
 
I've always eaten this way: did this food exist 100 years ago? Seems to work.

I actually have not eaten meat in 20 years. I do eat seafood, as I feel the body handles it differently. I never stopped for any reason other than I lost the taste for it. Glad I stopped, it hardens your arteries.
 
I always poo-pooed the sick cattle thing, but this documentary 'King Corn' has the ranchers admitting that the livestock is pumped up to a point of maximum morbid obesity and their organs are within days of complete shutdown when they are slaughtered.
To get even more liberal, one could talk about the immense carbon footprint, water usage, etc. consumed to maintain livestock.
 
I always poo-pooed the sick cattle thing, but this documentary 'King Corn' has the ranchers admitting that the livestock is pumped up to a point of maximum morbid obesity and their organs are within days of complete shutdown when they are slaughtered.


This brings to mind the so-called "Ag-gag" laws which make it illegal to blow the whistle on, film or photograph the genuinely horrifying practices and procedures undertaken by industrial slaughterhouses. Transparency in the production of all food-stuffs should be paramount in the mind of the consumer, effectively outlawing said transparency and punishing transgressions against that policy with criminal charges is a grave concern. The "ag-gag" laws have begun to backfire though, as nothing serves to raise public interest in a subject more than a cover-up.
 
1. A life without meat is a life not worth living.

I'd like to congratulate OfficePants on a new record! His thread, centered on the ever-controversial subject of living without meat, lasted 18 hours and accrued 12 posts before attracting the attention of the meat-first/sexy robot crowd. I had my money on either 'no-responses' or immediate condemnation, I'm happy to have been wrong. This is truly a milestone.
 
I'd like to congratulate OfficePants on a new record! His thread, centered on the ever-controversial subject of living without meat, lasted 18 hours and accrued 12 posts before attracting the attention of the meat-first/sexy robot crowd. I had my money on either 'no-responses' or immediate condemnation, I'm happy to have been wrong. This is truly a milestone.

I would have bet on the 'bacon = love' response.
 
I'd like to congratulate OfficePants on a new record! His thread, centered on the ever-controversial subject of living without meat, lasted 18 hours and accrued 12 posts before attracting the attention of the meat-first/sexy robot crowd. I had my money on either 'no-responses' or immediate condemnation, I'm happy to have been wrong. This is truly a milestone.

My wording staved off the carnivore. That or he was knee deep in some barbeque.
 
omfg you anti-meat pansies are anti-Murikkkan! what is your major malfunction, ladies? guess what - the herbiverous dinosaurs didn't live any longer than the carnivorous ones. no better 'quality of life' either, which is a meaningless term anyway since the poor fuckers didn't have bacon.
 
This sounds like a gay sex slogan
wait wait i have one:

"it's really uncomfortable, but you love him, right?"

or

"sitting down is so overrated"

or

"timing is everything when you're parking the caddy in the colon"
 
the herbiverous dinosaurs didn't live any longer than the carnivorous ones. no better 'quality of life' either, which is a meaningless term anyway since the poor fuckers didn't have bacon.


I don't make a habit of arguing with experts. I've found that sometimes it's just best to take a man at his word and not ask too many questions.

y'all 'murkans have food on your plate that's enough for 2 even 3 people outside the united states, that's why.

Do you think we should all just trade our plate settings with whoever the fuck it is that doesn't live in America so they'd have more room for food and we'd (probably) eat less? I never really love loved anything from West Elm to begin with. What do people who are not American eat out of? Skulls? Gourds? I know they eat most victuals while they're still living so... buckets? Elbow deep holes in the ground?

I can't send them the Spode China, it's a family thing. They'll understand.

I mean, I could but I won't.

edit: They'd probably just break it anyway.
 
I have sometimes considered only eating meat from animals I've killed myself (i'm overrun with bunnies and deer, wouldn't be difficult). There's something honest about it. And when it's taken you time and effort to get hold of, you tend to be much more efficient with your food. Same with the fruit and veg we grow at home - we make an effort to waste as little as that as possible. You understand its value.
 
I have sometimes considered only eating meat from animals I've killed myself (i'm overrun with bunnies and deer, wouldn't be difficult). There's something honest about it. And when it's taken you time and effort to get hold of, you tend to be much more efficient with your food. Same with the fruit and veg we grow at home - we make an effort to waste as little as that as possible. You understand its value.


The principles behind making such a decision is a conversation I avoid but that is what prompted my choice to stop eating meat in the first place. I think people tend to think of vegetarians as 'preachy' and I over-correct to avoid that label.

Oops, just re-read your post. If you've got it in you, I think hunting and eating your own foodstuffs is the most respectful, sustainable and responsible position to occupy on the food chain.
 
y'all 'murkans have food on your plate that's enough for 2 even 3 people outside the united states, that's why.

This is certainly true. Its more prevelant at chain type restaurants where they heap a massive portion on a giant plate.

I actually advocate a return to eating gruel. I guarantee weight loss.
 
The principles behind making such a decision is a conversation I avoid but that is what prompted my choice to stop eating meat in the first place. I think people tend to think of vegetarians as 'preachy' and I over-correct to avoid that label.

Oops, just re-read your post. If you've got it in you, I think hunting and eating your own foodstuffs is the most respectful, sustainable and responsible position to occupy on the food chain.


Rabbits and deer are almost a by-product of growing fruit and vegetables - if we don't keep the population in check they get to everything before we do.

There's an interesting thesis by a chap called Simon Fairlie, who was a hardcore veggie until he realised that his lifestyle involved people in poor countries growing cash crops such as soya for export. He calculated that most of his protein intake was getting shipped halfway round the world, often from countries in which people were going hungry. At the same time he realised that the organic small holding he ran in england involved leaving a certain percentage of his fields fallow at all times - traditionally, small holders would have kept animals in these fields. By refusing to do that, he was actually contributing to various of the world's problems that he thought he was against (industrial farming, food miles, etc, etc). So he stopped being a vegetarian and kept goats on his fallow fields for milk and meat, with, if anything, positive impact on his yields of organic crops, while substantially reducing his reliance on imported protein. It's in a book called "Meat: A Benign Extravagance". I've not read it myself but have had the pleasure of meeting Simon once or twice (he is the least preachy ex-veggie liberal I've ever met, despite what you might expect).
 
Rabbits and deer are almost a by-product of growing fruit and vegetables - if we don't keep the population in check they get to everything before we do.

There's an interesting thesis by a chap called Simon Fairlie, who was a hardcore veggie until he realised that his lifestyle involved people in poor countries growing cash crops such as soya for export. He calculated that most of his protein intake was getting shipped halfway round the world, often from countries in which people were going hungry. At the same time he realised that the organic small holding he ran in england involved leaving a certain percentage of his fields fallow at all times - traditionally, small holders would have kept animals in these fields. By refusing to do that, he was actually contributing to various of the world's problems that he thought he was against (industrial farming, food miles, etc, etc). So he stopped being a vegetarian and kept goats on his fallow fields for milk and meat, with, if anything, positive impact on his yields of organic crops, while substantially reducing his reliance on imported protein. It's in a book called "Meat: A Benign Extravagance". I've not read it myself but have had the pleasure of meeting Simon once or twice (he is the least preachy ex-veggie liberal I've ever met, despite what you might expect).

There was a recent study published (covered in an article by the NYT) showing that Bolivian farmers could no longer afford (economically) to eat the quinoa they harvest, which has been a staple of their diet for centuries. I won't even address the the environmental impact of shipping those grains to your local co-op or Whole Foods but the carbon footprint is significant.
 
There is an excellent Freakonomics podcast on this topic, I found it enlightening. Turns a lot of this thinking on its head.

http://www.freakonomics.com/2011/11/14/the-inefficiency-of-local-food/

As for Quinoa in Bolivia: fuck 'em, let them eat Llama.


Well... shit.

There's a lady down the street from me who's on this tip:


Woman on Diet of Air, Water, Sunlight

JUN 7, 2013 5:03 PM

Naveena Shine, of Seattle, tries life as a “breatharian.”

A British-born Seattle woman wanted to know if humans can survive on light and water alone, like a plant. Navenna Shine, 65, is documenting her journey on YouTube and Facebook, calling it “Living On the Light.” She said she stopped eating on May 3 and wants to try it for at least 40 days, but maybe four to six months. The idea comes from Yogis, who call themselves “breatharians.” Shine aims to discover if food is merely an addiction instead of a necessity, and she dreams of how free life would be if humans didn’t have to eat. Shine is trying to live with a plant; hopefully her only interaction isn’t that she ends up pushing daisies.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/life-sty...g-breatharian-article-1.1366142#ixzz2XKnXCP2H
 
^ not bad.

Reminds me of a wierdo from the '60s I read about that tried to convert his dog to being a fruitarian. Sickly dog, real warrior to stick by the guy.
 
y'all 'murkans have food on your plate that's enough for 2 even 3 people outside the united states, that's why.


This is what I was trying to say in my post, but you summed it up better. :herpderp:
 
They say you can live off Guinness alone. Many in Ireland have tried.
 
Just came across this George Bernard Shaw quote, "Animals are my friends... and I don't eat my friends."

I thought it was a touching sentiment but I bet he would totally go full-on cannibal if it came down to it.
 
"Animals are my friends." Puh-leaze. Obviously he's never met a Deep Sea Hatchet Fish.


Yeah, no doubt. I have not made animals part of my diet but I could definitely see myself eating one to assert dominance or to instill fear in their kind.

Vlad Tepes ate some of his enemies. He also forced some of them to eat each other, more than a few of his rivals found themselves in the unenviable position of being forced to butcher and consume their own wives/children for Vlad's amusement.
.
He impaled 20,000 Ottomans on the outskirts of Targoviste just to warn the rest not to fuck with him.

That's so fucking baller.
 

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