the soft straight collar

Russell Street

Russell Street

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Whenever I see black and white photos of men in suits from the 40s or so, I not that they have point collars and that the points often are more than a little bent, rolled, wilted. They are decidedly not board stiff as is so common today, and there seems to be a total absence of collar stays of any rigidity.

I love the way that the formality of a peaked straight white collar with the soft roll, the insouciant way the points lift and bow. I think I'll just find some standard point collar shirst with minimum fusing and lining and simply omit the stays.
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Yup, the proper straight collar that I have to work with is too stiffly fused for it to matter. I'd likely have to order something from Ratio or whomever.

On an unrelated note, I see that rounded club collars never have holders for stiffeners and seem seem to be soft and relatively unlined. My guess is that this is for collar pin wear?
 
Ivar said:
Maybe, but I'm pretty sure some of them don't take a collar pin. Not that I have any first-hand experience. I can't recall having ever seen a club collar up close. Very, very rare over here.
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The one I have is about 20 yrs old. The trendy ones now are oddly similar. None have that goofy hole for a collar pin. I have to say that this is my real example of a collar being just fine with no supporting structure whatsoever.
 
Russell Street said:
Yup, the proper straight collar that I have to work with is too stiffly fused for it to matter. I'd likely have to order something from Ratio or whomever.

On an unrelated note, I see that rounded club collars never have holders for stiffeners and seem seem to be soft and relatively unlined. My guess is that this is for collar pin wear?
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It's not set in stone, but my bespoke shirts have much softer collars than my RTW. I bet if I didn't press my H&H bespoke collar after washing it would look like that. It's a little more cutaway though, but that's just how I order them.
 
In my ideal, the collar looks somewhat neat at the beginning of the day and just wilts a bit and allows a bit of floppiness as time goes on.

Commanly available RTW "dress-shirt" collars are all rather stiff. I see that the $5 clearance Uniqlo button-down I have understands minimal to no collar lining, I might have to investigate their stuff before spending real money.
 
just came across this. nice thread. Sartodinapoli would be a great resource here. very few rtw makers do an unfused collar. there are different qualities of interlining/fusing material ranging from cotton (sewn-in fabric; kind of like a floating canvas in suits) to synthetics (fused to the non-skin side of the shirting via heat and pressure). there are differing qualities of synthetics and cost dictates what the maker chooses. shorter life expectancy for a fused collar. custom/bespoke makers will do whatever a client wants including fusing. some mtm makers still use fused collars as the standard. Kabbaz says that doing a really good fused collar is more difficult than unfused. so back in the 40's you did not have synthetic fusing hence the softer collar you prefer. button downs typically are not fused because that would defeat the purpose; they don't have stays for the same reason. i prefer a soft collar with a light interlining. had enough fused collars in my youth. like a fucking frisbee around your neck.
 
I'm really thinking of getting a totally unlined straight collar in a decently substantial fabric. I'm not sure that I can really trust an MTM grindhouse to do this and I'm rather loathe to experiment at full custom prices.
 
Russell Street said:
I'm really thinking of getting a totally unlined straight collar in a decently substantial fabric. I'm not sure that I can really trust an MTM grindhouse to do this and I'm rather loathe to experiment at full custom prices.
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I know both Hilditch & Key and Turnbull & Asser make RTW unfused collars. They will have an interlining but will be far softer than your run-of-the-mill RTW shirts.

If you like the collar shape and are able to pick one up on sale or via EBay it might give you what you are looking for.

I would think even the most pedestrian MTM shops could do what you are looking for. The issue is making sure the rest of the shirt fits as there are many horror stories out there.
 
ey sorry, i only have on Naples a mobile phone. Colllars on the 50s were soaked with a chemicals after each washing to make them stiff. My mother did for my grandpa. If badly or abused it could irritate skin or even bleed.

There is a lot of hype today about unfused. I hate them so Kiton does. They say are for hyped people .

A properly fused with our top interlinings looks sharp not bubbled as unfused will alwYs do unless a very skilled person presses it after each washing.

I recorded a video of the owner of Barba explaining how to press them. first to a side, turn its side and go on the opposite direction.

Google Barba dandy life shirts to see unfused. too hippy for my wall street taste.
 
i am all the time watching Nixon and Reagan speeches on youtube when i am down. You can see bubbles all the time on early 80s Jermyn's Reagan ones. The Evil Empire i think is one. That turns me on. You know me....
 
Sartodinapoli said:
ey sorry, i only have on Naples a mobile phone. Colllars on the 50s were soaked with a chemicals after each washing to make them stiff. My mother did for my grandpa. If badly or abused it could irritate skin or even bleed.

There is a lot of hype today about unfused. I hate them so Kiton does. They say are for hyped people .

A properly fused with our top interlinings looks sharp not bubbled as unfused will alwYs do unless a very skilled person presses it after each washing.

I recorded a video of the owner of Barba explaining how to press them. first to a side, turn its side and go on the opposite direction.

Google Barba dandy life shirts to see unfused. too hippy for my wall street taste.
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What kind of material is used for fusing by Italian shirt makers?
 
french or german stuff industry s standart. no cheapo stuff that delaminates on hot water or so stiff that rips the fabric.
 
Interesting stuff. I know that back when I was getting clearly unfused, and possibly unlined, collars, that ironing was a pain whereas fused iron easily.
Interlining merely adds a bit of body?
 
Russell Street said:
Interesting stuff. I know that back when I was getting clearly unfused, and possibly unlined, collars, that ironing was a pain whereas fused iron easily.
Interlining merely adds a bit of body?
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Ironing is more difficult with unfused collars so you have to decide what you are after. I think it is preferable to have interlining versus not to give shape and some structure. Fused versus non-fused is the other decision. Also, certain custom shirt makers have their own preferences but will generally give you options.
 
So I think I'd want interlining at the very least in order to start the day with some approximation of crispness. Light fusing might be okay but unflappability is not for me. I'll have to examine my Ratio button down, as it seems to have the right degree of crispness/floppiness and they actually produced a wearable shirt given my measurements.
 
Russell Street said:
So I think I'd want interlining at the very least in order to start the day with some approximation of crispness. Light fusing might be okay but unflappability is not for me. I'll have to examine my Ratio button down, as it seems to have the right degree of crispness/floppiness and they actually produced a wearable shirt given my measurements.
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Prudent approach. See how light fusing meets your needs versus non-fused interlining. When I had Carl at Cego make my shirts, his suggestion was for non-fused and a light interlining, which worked for me. Plus I have my shirts laundered. When I switched to my traveling Hong Kong tailor, their default was fused and they didn't seem to hear what I asked for. They had to redo all my shirts. But now we understand each other and my collars and cuffs are almost as good as what Carl made me.
 
So the ability to get slippage between layers indicates lack of fusing, right? I guess for interlining you just have to assess whether it is stiffer or heavier than the fabric doubled over?
 
i just remembered the chemicals used after each shirt wash to stiff the collars on the old times is called almidon in Spanish. Don't know the English one. Perhaps is a derivate of corn?
 
Not recovered but far worse. Thank you.

Hyped ignorants is what the shirt master called those igents that read bullshit written by people as unbelragazza who is a pedant who has any idea but a fashionista and try to imitate it.

The other forum is an example of.low personality guys as Tackynacci hooligans per example. Banned me years ago by selling that is a hyped brand with bad cut made by apprentices.

No neapolitan buys that crap.
 
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