The Trump Presidency

Pimpernel Smith

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yes, best to just bend over and let the fascists take control. who needs minorities or civil liberties anyway?
I think you're wrong on this issue. With Trump, he is no fascist, but liberals have latched onto his style. It is the style they object to. And the fact that the Democrats and the Clinton's owe their sponsors Big Time and they're hungry for reparations. Trump has yet to inflict support for a Muslim Brotherhood regime in Egypt, the Libyan fiasco and in Syria support for Islamist jihadists. As a foreigner, I think he's breath of fresh air to the White House and on the world stage.

In contrast the Democrats look increasingly unhinged along with their legacy media chums and the courting of the radical left is a gift to the Republicans. Like Corbyn's Labour Party in the UK, they badly need a conviction politician of some substance with some real and positive policies. You can get away with the Fuck Trump! platform on CNN and with your liberal educated chums, but you won't get away with it in reality, in the real world away from emoting BS. From this perspective, it looks like the Democrats are the only ones who are fucked.
 

Rambo

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what? we have literal nazi's running around now. and running for government.

I think you're wrong on this issue. With Trump, he is no fascist, but liberals have latched onto his style. It is the style they object to. And the fact that the Democrats and the Clinton's owe their sponsors Big Time and they're hungry for reparations. Trump has yet to inflict support for a Muslim Brotherhood regime in Egypt, the Libyan fiasco and in Syria support for Islamist jihadists. As a foreigner, I think he's breath of fresh air to the White House and on the world stage.

In contrast the Democrats look increasingly unhinged along with their legacy media chums and the courting of the radical left is a gift to the Republicans. Like Corbyn's Labour Party in the UK, they badly need a conviction politician of some substance with some real and positive policies. You can get away with the Fuck Trump! platform on CNN and with your liberal educated chums, but you won't get away with it in reality, in the real world away from emoting BS. From this perspective, it looks like the Democrats are the only ones who are fucked.
i don't think trump is a fascist. i do think he's a racist though. the problem is that he's let the fascists get out of control. he even says in the new Woodward book that his biggest mistake was condemning them at all. the democrats are definitely unhinged and completely feckless to boot. this supreme court nomination farce is just further proof.

i don't know how you see the media courting the "radical" left? they literally take every single chance they get to prop up these establishment shitheads we have now.
 

Arnathor

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For example Don Lemon and his ilk excusing or providing cover for Antifa by saying things like "No organization is perfect..." that seems like courting the radical left to me.

In Canada our state broadcaster, CBC sides with every leftist group going. You can't turn on the radio or tv without it being a) a Native issue, b) a feminist/LGBT/toxic masculinity issue or them sucking up to our Prime Minister.

I bet there are ample examples of MSM courting the left in just about every major country. Just take a look at Drudge Report.
 

Dropbear

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For example Don Lemon and his ilk excusing or providing cover for Antifa by saying things like "No organization is perfect..." that seems like courting the radical left to me.
Until the right jumped the shark recently, being anti-fascist was the norm in mainstream politics - not the domain of “the far left”.
 

InstaHate

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It will fall on deaf ears, but at worst, Leftists are radical totalitarians. They aren’t fascist because they aren’t nationalistic. The alt-right is far closer to fascism because they have both some totalitarian leanings and are absolutely nationalistic. Nationalism is embedded in the definition of fascism.

Orwell on totalitarianism:
The organized lying practiced by totalitarian states is not, as is sometimes claimed, a temporary expedient of the same nature as military deception. It is something integral to totalitarianism, something that would still continue even if concentration camps and secret police forces had ceased to be necessary. Among intelligent Communists there is an underground legend to the effect that although the Russian government is obliged now to deal in lying propaganda, frame-up trials, and so forth, it is secretly recording the true facts and will publish them at some future time. We can, I believe, be quite certain that this is not the case, because the mentality implied by such an action is that of a liberal historian who believes that the past cannot be altered and that a correct knowledge of history is valuable as a matter of course. From the totalitarian point of view history is something to be created rather than learned. A totalitarian state is in effect a theocracy, and its ruling caste, in order to keep its position, has to be thought of as infallible. But since, in practice, no one is infallible, it is frequently necessary to rearrange past events in order to show that this or that mistake was not made, or that this or that imaginary triumph actually happened. Then again, every major change in policy demands a corresponding change of doctrine and a revelation of prominent historical figures. This kind of thing happens everywhere, but is clearly likelier to lead to outright falsification in societies where only one opinion is permissible at any given moment. Totalitarianism demands, in fact, the continuous alteration of the past, and in the long run probably demands a disbelief in the very existence of objective truth. The friends of totalitarianism in this country usually tend to argue that since absolute truth is not attainable, a big lie is no worse than a little lie. It is pointed out that all historical records are biased and inaccurate, or on the other hand, that modern physics has proven that what seems to us the real world is an illusion, so that to believe in the evidence of one's senses is simply vulgar philistinism. A totalitarian society which succeeded in perpetuating itself would probably set up a schizophrenic system of thought, in which the laws of common sense held good in everyday life and in certain exact sciences, but could be disregarded by the politician, the historian, and the sociologist. Already there are countless people who would think it scandalous to falsify a scientific textbook, but would see nothing wrong in falsifying an historical fact. It is at the point where literature and politics cross that totalitarianism exerts its greatest pressure on the intellectual. The exact sciences are not, at this date, menaced to anything like the same extent. This partly accounts for the fact that in all countries it is easier for the scientists than for the writers to line up behind their respective governments.
 

Rambo

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For example Don Lemon and his ilk excusing or providing cover for Antifa by saying things like "No organization is perfect..." that seems like courting the radical left to me.

In Canada our state broadcaster, CBC sides with every leftist group going. You can't turn on the radio or tv without it being a) a Native issue, b) a feminist/LGBT/toxic masculinity issue or them sucking up to our Prime Minister.

I bet there are ample examples of MSM courting the left in just about every major country. Just take a look at Drudge Report.
you do understand that antifa literally means anti-fascist, right? shouldn't we want antifa instead of nazis?

also, drudge report isn't a source for anything but bullshit.

There are fascists in the States?!
yes, nazis.
^Sounds like the lunatic feminists in the universities.
you're reading too much jordan peterson.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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I care nought whether the jack boot is from National Socialists or International Socialists. It's all semantic games with Antifa, they are paramiltary in organisation, intent and iconography. They are anti-free speech, totalitarian and thugs.
 

Rambo

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I care nought whether the jack boot is from National Socialists or International Socialists. It's all semantic games with Antifa, they are paramiltary in organisation, intent and iconography. They are anti-free speech, totalitarian and thugs.
ok, but who are they beating up? nazis. i understand your dislike of the group but the counter to antifa aren't exactly peacenicks. they're the tiki torch wielding assholes like richard spencer and their ilk.
 

Arnathor

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At this point I am convinced you are playing devil's advocate and trolling. OR you must literally be:

 
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Pimpernel Smith

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ok, but who are they beating up? nazis. i understand your dislike of the group but the counter to antifa aren't exactly peacenicks. they're the tiki torch wielding assholes like richard spencer and their ilk.
They're also fire bombing houses and burning cars here in Europe. They march in unision with black clothes and masks, their flags are Anarcho-Communist ones. They use fascist tactics of violence and vandalism of private property. They don't represent the working class, they are not the heir of the Greatest Generation's fight against fascism, they are nothing more than communist mobs using the anti-fascism credential as an excuse to attack, bully and destroy. The regressive MSM and globalist courting of this group is a disgrace. They are the embodiment that the future fascists will call themselves anti-fascists. And I don't buy this they can't be fascists because fascism is nationalistic whereas as Antifa are internationalist the tactics and aims of authoritarian rule is the same
 

Dropbear

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Meh, I’m antifascist. Those are some nice talking points without any anchors to reality.

I don’t wear black. I don’t vandalise much property. The iconography of the Iron Front dates back to the 1930s and represents the three spears defending democraticy: antifascism, anticommunism and antimonarchism.
 

Dropbear

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Again, repeating some far right talking points without any basis.

I’ve been involved in Antifa work on and off since I left the army 25 years ago. Right now I’m teaching a free self-defense class at the Jewish Community Center for people at-risk.

Tell me again how it’s all semantics.
 

QuandoDio

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I think the likes of Pimpernel Smith Pimpernel Smith have already set their stall and mind's already made up. Everything President Trump does is kosher, any dissenting opinion isn't. There is little intelligent debate to be hand, no nuance.

In the Interest of fairness, there are those on the other side who have also set their stall and the MO is the same. The Intransgence is something to behold

Lunacy IMO but it is what is
 

doghouse

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It will fall on deaf ears, but at worst, Leftists are radical totalitarians. They aren’t fascist because they aren’t nationalistic. The alt-right is far closer to fascism because they have both some totalitarian leanings and are absolutely nationalistic. Nationalism is embedded in the definition of fascism.

Orwell on totalitarianism:
Notice nobody responded.
 

InstaHate

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Notice nobody responded.
People have always liked hurling around the word “fascist” without any regard to its accuracy. It used to be the left leveling it at the right; typically, this was a gross exaggeration of both the right’s nationalism and its totalitarian bent. Now both sides toss it around, and it’s just nonsensical when used to label the left.

Basically, it’s become a playground insult, the political equivalent of a doodoohead.
 

doghouse

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People have always liked hurling around the word “fascist” without any regard to its accuracy. It used to be the left leveling it at the right; typically, this was a gross exaggeration of both the right’s nationalism and its totalitarian bent. Now both sides toss it around, and it’s just nonsensical when used to label the left.

Basically, it’s become a playground insult, the political equivalent of a doodoohead.
Imma start bringing doodoohead back into circulation
 

InstaHate

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Trump is a doodoohead, but so is Pelosi. The Clintons have hella cooties.

On a different note, as someone who dislikes Trump but believes in our institutions, this op-ed points out that this is a tricky position to hold regarding the NYT op-ed. On one hand, I strongly believe in our political institutions, and I think that the inertia they create is valuable. Do some of them need fixing? Absolutely. Should they be subverted (e.g., the DOJ should be taking its cues from the WH rather than the law)? Absolutely not. Sometimes the various institutions of the government are in conflict, and that’s fine, important even.

However, WH officials going this far to influence the policy of a duly elected president goes too far. These aren’t different institutions whose mandates have them at odds, but a single institution with a single mandate, so there should not be this conflict.

Do I think the “steady state” influence is a positive one? Yes, absolutely. Do I think that their actions are justified? That’s a harder question, but ultimately I agree with the CNN op-ed: this is not okay, it sets a dangerous precedent, and it is damaging to our democratic institutions

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/09/06/...vert-an-elected-president-jennings/index.html
 

Pauly Chase

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Again, repeating some far right talking points without any basis.

I’ve been involved in Antifa work on and off since I left the army 25 years ago. Right now I’m teaching a free self-defense class at the Jewish Community Center for people at-risk.

Tell me again how it’s all semantics.
I was not referring to your actions specifically. The ANTIFA organization portrayed by the media is nothing but a radical group seeking reasons to destroy political civility.
 

Dropbear

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I was not referring to your actions specifically. The ANTIFA organization portrayed by the media is nothing but a radical group seeking reasons to destroy political civility.
Fair enough. But I’ll add that the media’s portrayal of supposed Antifa groups misses the mark widely - snotty teenagers in masks trying to burn random shit is not Antifa and never has been.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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^You let the cat out of the bag earlier when you said ''I don’t vandalise much property.''

Those of us have been anti-fascist for quite some time are not fooled that the thin line between us and a fascist takeover are the masked black clad red flag waving legions of Antifa. I don't buy it and I don't buy the media spin. Individual members of Antifa may well be fine, your good self included, but this is a group that worships the power block and the might of the organized militia.

I've seen strange things in these times, particularly amongst university educated and middle class people who should know better than to take leave of their senses and embrace mass hysteria. There is a certain middle class with elitist ambitions that has become quite foul and obnoxious on both sides of the Atlantic. They are a danger to us and themselves, for the truly believe they are an immaculate intellectual elite.
 

Dropbear

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The sole reason for antifa to exist I to fight fascism (no, not Trump - actual fascists). Most of the work is intelligence gathering - documenting hate crimes and the people involved, gathering evidence for the authorities to prosecute - and community education. Others teach self defense to fascist 'targets' and a range of other activities. Counter-protesting is mostly something done by leftist political groups and isn't a high priority for antifa groups.

Antifa groups demobilize or disband when there are no fascists to monitor to keep in check. So ... if you really think antifascism is a bad thing, join us in stamping out fascism so there is no reason for antifascist organisations.
 

Rambo

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Once again, these people are organizing to attempt to combat literal nazis. I saw someone wearing nazi gear today. These people are more and more emboldened with every passing day.
 

InstaHate

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Gary Cohn allegedly said that Trump has the IQ of an in-bred tanning bed. I don’t know if this was ever actually said, but it is an hilarious insult (I’m an older millennial, so I came of age watching early Adult Swim through a haze of bong rips).

It sounds like it’s from the internet though and not something a 60 year old banker or a 75 year old journalist would say.
 

Fwiffo

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Gary Cohn allegedly said that Trump has the IQ of an in-bred tanning bed. I don’t know if this was ever actually said, but it is an hilarious insult (I’m an older millennial, so I came of age watching early Adult Swim through a haze of bong rips).

It sounds like it’s from the internet though and not something a 60 year old banker or a 75 year old journalist would say.
What about that puzzle or test he passed with flying colours?
 
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