The War in the Ukraine

Fwiffo

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Might turn their heads but oil is high and they probably diversified into cryptocurrency like the North Koreans.

Really should have signed a deal with the Iranians and told OPEC to flood the market to get it below an unprofitable oil price point.
 

Fwiffo

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“Russia alone is responsible for the death and destruction this attack will bring, and the United States and its Allies and partners will respond in a united and decisive way,” Biden





And these are the leaders of the free world. Like watching Germans cross the line with the annexation of Czechoslovakia and then Poland and then...

We're led by a rabble of leaders more concerned about their own political survival at the next election and the media's latest poll than leading their own nations much less shaping the destiny of the world.

Taiwan and South Korea can sleep mortified because this is the support you'll receive.
 

QuandoDio

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^^^I get all that, but what are they supposed to do? Putin is a supervillain figure and most of the west ( no matter, and they are impotent!!) have no appetite for war. You can't really sit down with chaps like that. What does Putin really want?

Predictably, Trump is praising Putin for this.
 

Fwiffo

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It appears then we are acting like the 21st century of Neville Chamberlain. Never again must we go to war. And then Macron comes back with an appointment in the diary for Biden to see Putin to get a piece of paper he waves around after getting off Air Force One that reassures the world no other territory or country will be annexed.
 

Dropbear

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^^^I get all that, but what are they supposed to do? Putin is a supervillain figure and most of the west ( no matter, and they are impotent!!) have no appetite for war. You can't really sit down with chaps like that. What does Putin really want?

IMO, we should have started the process to admit Ukraine to NATO a few years ago. But now, what can we do is a very good question. I can see a new Cold War with Ukraine becoming the next Afghanistan: stinger middles and covert support from the West leading to an extended and bloody proxy war.
Predictably, Trump is praising Putin for this.
The Republicans here were taken over by isolationists a decade ago and Trump solidified that. Trump is Putin’s bitch, but the rot is far deeper than one old man and his pee tapes.

 
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Dropbear

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It’s a new cyber conflict era in which the war will be fought by controlling the crypto currency exchanges, hacks, fake news, memes and the stratigic deployment of thoughts and prayers.

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güero

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IMO, we should have started the process to admit Ukraine to NATO a few years ago.
No has ever provided a coherent explanation why Ukraine should join NATO in the first place. And even if such explanation exists, it would have been much smarter to have Russia join NATO, as they requested decades ago.
 

Fwiffo

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"It’s abundantly clear that NATO members are unwilling to shed blood and possibly stumble into a war with a nuclear-armed Russia for Ukraine’s sake."

Must suck for Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia.
 

Dropbear

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"It’s abundantly clear that NATO members are unwilling to shed blood and possibly stumble into a war with a nuclear-armed Russia for Ukraine’s sake."

Must suck for Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia.

It’s no accident that the Baltics have been supplying arms to Ukraine at a frantic pace this past week - it does indeed suck for them right now.
 

formby002

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There's some very embarrassed 'left-wing' pundits/activists/politicians in the UK this morning.
 

Fwiffo

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IMO, we should have started the process to admit Ukraine to NATO a few years ago. But now, what can we do is a very good question. I can see a new Cold War with Ukraine becoming the next Afghanistan: stinger middles and covert support from the West leading to an extended and bloody proxy war.

Why fight on his terms? They still have a presence in Syria. Syrian rebels might suddenly get arms and transport to be able to sabotage their forces in Latakia.

Last I checked there are a lot of hungry and poor Afghans wanting the West to release their money. Tried and true tactic to make a ruckus with another former SSR republic that will run to Russia for help.

And Iran is still waiting for President Biden. Sign a deal, dump oil on the market and release some petroleum reserves so the funds that power their petrol-dollar country craters.

It's too late to do an Arctic training exercise to divert their attention but there isn't any way they can pivot a 160K or 190K fighting force to another front any time soon.
 

formby002

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Well, for one. Several Labour MP's have signed the Stop the War UK petition which blames the UK, not Russia for escalating tensions.

I believe the Labour whip has written to the MP's instructing them to remove their names...
 

Dropbear

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Why fight on his terms? They still have a presence in Syria. Syrian rebels might suddenly get arms and transport to be able to sabotage their forces in Latakia.

Last I checked there are a lot of hungry and poor Afghans wanting the West to release their money. Tried and true tactic to make a ruckus with another former SSR republic that will run to Russia for help.

And Iran is still waiting for President Biden. Sign a deal, dump oil on the market and release some petroleum reserves so the funds that power their petrol-dollar country craters.

It's too late to do an Arctic training exercise to divert their attention but there isn't any way they can pivot a 160K or 190K fighting force to another front any time soon.
Yeh, not saying I agree or hope it happens, just that it is a real possibility.

I don’t know how much appetite Russians have for this war, but maybe ramping-up Russian language external news sources like VOA and providing support for some Russian opposition could put pressure on Vlad … if there anyone left he hasn’t already killed.
 

formby002

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I beleive Russian forces have captured Chernobyl. That's deeply worrying. I'll likely be discussing this at work tomorrow.
 

Fwiffo

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Yeh, not saying I agree or hope it happens, just that it is a real possibility.

I don’t know how much appetite Russians have for this war, but maybe ramping-up Russian language external news sources like VOA and providing support for some Russian opposition could put pressure on Vlad … if there anyone left he hasn’t already killed.

Russians in Russia ?

Russians in Russia under 25 might be against it but there will be no protests.

Russians remaining in Russia and are 25 and above are for him. Any Russian dissident who had a brain all emigrated ages ago. Russians immigrants who lived through the fall of Soviet Union and had to move but aren't ancient White Russians will be for it. Russians of former republics are 50/50 depending on your status and how miserable you were when USSR fell.
 

Dropbear

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The Russians have captured Chernobyl and are holding the staff hostage.

 

Dropbear

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I’m following some live footage of the fight to retake Hostomel Airfield and these Ukrainians are fighting like they are going to win this.
 

Fwiffo

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I’m following some live footage of the fight to retake Hostomel Airfield and these Ukrainians are fighting like they are going to win this.

Hopefully that's not the upper end of the up to age 60 reservists or the 78 year grandmum.

 

Fwiffo

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Is there mandatory military service in the Ukraine ?

Because giving guns to anyone who wants it seems like a recipe for a whole lot of friendly fire and self inflicted gunshot wounds.

Playing Call of Duty doesn't count. I await the comments of the Americans on this forum who will say any 8 year old boy knows how to operate a firearm.
 

Dropbear

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Is there mandatory military service in the Ukraine ?

Yes. 1yr army/air force or 2yrs navy.

Because giving guns to anyone who wants it seems like a recipe for a whole lot of friendly fire and self inflicted gunshot wounds.
I think he specified anyone who is trained/has done their military service. It’s still a move in desperation - cobbling together new units at the last minute.

Playing Call of Duty doesn't count. I await the comments of the Americans on this forum who will say any 8 year old boy knows how to operate a firearm.

Wolverines!!
 

Fwiffo

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Yes. 1yr army/air force or 2yrs navy.


I think he specified anyone who is trained/has done their military service. It’s still a move in desperation - cobbling together new units at the last minute.



Wolverines!!


1 minute 28 mark.
 

Fwiffo

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"The sanctions we imposed exceed SWIFT. The sanctions we imposed exceed anything that’s ever been done. The sanctions we imposed have generated two-thirds of the world joining us. They are profound sanctions. Let’s have a conversation in another month or so to see if they’re working."

In a month? You think the Ukrainians will hold out for a month?
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Weapons are being distributed, but rusty, or novice civilians are not going to be an effective fighting force against a trained army, or barrage. Odessa seems to be holding on, at least late yesterday. The brother-in-law is intent on staying, all his investments are there, so what can you do, leave everything you've built-up to become a refugee, or stay and fight? He does work for a Dutch company, so if he leaves he will have gainful employment.

The EU was against sanctions on Russian's continued access to SWIFT which tells you how gutless and spineless they are.

The Russian intelligence assets within the Russian diaspora are already activated in the propaganda war. The missus has received the security warning yesterday. And yes, they're active.

Back to the Cold War, that'll be a shake-up for those who thought woke ideologies was the future. Game over for that particular grift.
 

Fwiffo

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The EU was against sanctions on Russian's continued access to SWIFT which tells you how gutless and spineless they are.

The evening media here seemed to implicate the Germans who looked at their gas prices and their now not so special relationship with Russia.
 

Fwiffo

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"This has something to do with President Biden's non-interventionist instincts.

Granted, they were developed over time. He supported US military action in the 1990s to deal with ethnic conflicts in the Balkans. And he voted for America's ill-fated invasion of Iraq in 2003. But since then he's become more wary of using US military power."

You also don't want to use it like you did last August.
 

güero

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The evening media here seemed to implicate the Germans who looked at their gas prices and their now not so special relationship with Russia.
That is fairly correct, but Italy as well and Germany for slightly different reasons.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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My wife's family - the female members - have made a break out for Moldovia. The others have to stay in place and wait for the call-up. But from what I hear all the big talk of resistance might be over played in the media. Certain cities might surrender to avoid a blood bath.
 
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