The Winter Coat Thread

The Shooman

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Lets talk about peacoats. Who has one and what type do you have.

Personally, I have wanted a peacoat for a long time because l have always liked the look of them, and I seriously considered custom, but from my basic research it seems the modern day peacoat is not what it used to be in terms of quality of materials used. The material used now is said to age faster, not hold up as well, is lighter weight and less waterproof. Many peacoats now use 20% nylon.

Here are some very interesting comments on peacoats l found at Fedora Lounge forum.

Fedora Lounge notes:

1980 saw a major and substantive change in peacoat construction. The heavy smooth wool, deep midnight blue in color, often referred to as Kersey wool, that had long been a staple in Navy peacoats, with a few exceptions, was replaced. The new peacoat fabric was known as Melton wool. It was black in color with a more fuzzy and rougher texture, and lighter in weight. Because of the lighter weight, an insulated lining was added to give it additional warmth. The top part of the inside of the coat is covered with a shiny rayon type liner, evidently because it receives the heaviest wear. Most reports I have received say the new peacoat is as warm, but not as water repellent or as wind proof as the original Kersey wool. My own experience and tests confirm these reports. The Melton wool had been used earlier in the construction of peacoats. In the 1970s there was at least one contract that specified Melton rather than Kersey wool. The pre-1980 Melton coats I have seen have all been labeled as such.
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/peacoat-dating.35824/#post-717109


Sterlingwear and Schott use pressed and napped wool blends (melton) which looks fuzzy and doesn't age nicely. Schott and Fidelity even use reprocessed wool (shredded old wool clothing re-spun and piece dyed...yuk) Schotts tend to fit quite boxy whereas the Sterlingwear Authentic is very close fitting with a sharp look to it.
BUT no matter how good a Schott or Sterlinwear can be, if you ever lay your hands on a 60s or early 70s vintage peacoat you don't want anything else...period!!

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/pea-coat-sterlingwear-or-schott.59752/#post-1336008
 

The Shooman

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Having a more recent interest in building an amazing winter wardrobe, l decided to add some peacoats to my collection of winter coats which consist of:
- great coats (extremely heavy overcoat made in 30+ oz fabric)
- overcoats
- tweed coats
- trench coat
- peacoats

I was quoted almost $700 + for custom Schott which is an excellent deal, but l still wanted the old quality that folks talk about. I ended up getting two vintage peacoats, one of 70's era that has hardly been worn (apparently) and really great quality, and another beautiful coat. That 70's coat is supposed to be the top stuff people rave about, and they are very difficult to come by. One coat has more room for thick jumpers and the 70's peacoat is for thinner jumpers.

See...for me it is about the quality. I want the really good stuff, so it needs to be vintage for some things like knitwear, a peacoat and a trench coat. Even the Burberry trenchcoats are now said to be made in Turkey, and in the last year my beloved Sunspel sea island cotton t-shirts have now stopped being made in England and have been outsourced to Turkey, and the quality has indeed dropped imo (less thick and satisfying). Quality gives me a real thrill so sometimes it needs to be vintage.

So why a peacoat? Because they look amazing, are very thick (32 oz fabric) and are extra warm. I purchased two navy coats, anything but black.

I really feel the cold in recent years as l get older. Like some friends also say, they feel the chill in their bones in recent years. Once that chill gets into those bones it is difficult to get it out again.

Indeed, the idea and journey of purchasing THICK woolens, Scottish cashmere, winter hats and peacoats is very exciting. Wearing such warm things is a great adventure. Next is bespoke tweed trousers in gray, dark brown and navy; now THAT is going to be exciting!!!! I want 21 oz fabrics if l can get it! My tailor thinks l am being silly, but l am not!

When it is 59 degrees F in Oz l need to dress like it is -35 F because l feel the cold.
 
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aristoi bcn

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Mine is 6 years old now, Gloverall bought in London, melton wool with 20% polyamide. Below 5º celsius it's too cold to wear it. I'll have one made bespoke at some point. Maybe not a peacoat but a caban:





 

Thruth

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Lets talk about peacoats. Who has one and what type do you have.

Personally, I have wanted a peacoat for a long time because l have always liked the look of them, and I seriously considered custom, but from my basic research it seems the modern day peacoat is not what it used to be in terms of quality of materials used. The material used now is said to age faster, not hold up as well, is lighter weight and less waterproof. Many peacoats now use 20% nylon.

Here are some very interesting comments on peacoats l found at Fedora Lounge forum.

Fedora Lounge notes:

1980 saw a major and substantive change in peacoat construction. The heavy smooth wool, deep midnight blue in color, often referred to as Kersey wool, that had long been a staple in Navy peacoats, with a few exceptions, was replaced. The new peacoat fabric was known as Melton wool. It was black in color with a more fuzzy and rougher texture, and lighter in weight. Because of the lighter weight, an insulated lining was added to give it additional warmth. The top part of the inside of the coat is covered with a shiny rayon type liner, evidently because it receives the heaviest wear. Most reports I have received say the new peacoat is as warm, but not as water repellent or as wind proof as the original Kersey wool. My own experience and tests confirm these reports. The Melton wool had been used earlier in the construction of peacoats. In the 1970s there was at least one contract that specified Melton rather than Kersey wool. The pre-1980 Melton coats I have seen have all been labeled as such.
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/peacoat-dating.35824/#post-717109


Sterlingwear and Schott use pressed and napped wool blends (melton) which looks fuzzy and doesn't age nicely. Schott and Fidelity even use reprocessed wool (shredded old wool clothing re-spun and piece dyed...yuk) Schotts tend to fit quite boxy whereas the Sterlingwear Authentic is very close fitting with a sharp look to it.
BUT no matter how good a Schott or Sterlinwear can be, if you ever lay your hands on a 60s or early 70s vintage peacoat you don't want anything else...period!!

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/pea-coat-sterlingwear-or-schott.59752/#post-1336008
Shooey, very few makers are using proper pilot cloth if the correct weight.

Even Sterlingwear and the US makers only use 24 ounce 80/20 wool/poly

If you want to get a used version of the navy version, best to get pre-Vietnam vintage

The Real McCoys (Japan) do 2 models of peacoat, one a version of the 1913, which is one of the earliest US models.

They use 37 ounce melton in 2 layers, urea buttons, corduroy pocket lining

It is quite slim cut like the original.
IMG_1267.JPG


They also do a 1930's style which is less slim but fits true to size. Same authentic weight cloth and period fabrics. This is more of the pea coat that most people recognize.
IMG_1268.JPG


Will cost you in the $800-900 USD range. But very authentic reproduction and faithful to details

Buzz Rickson (Japan) does one too in 36 ounce melton along with proper details and urea buttons. Similar price

IMG_1268.JPG
 

Jupiter

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Mine is 6 years old now, Gloverall bought in London, melton wool with 20% polyamide. Below 5º celsius it's too cold to wear it. I'll have one made bespoke at some point. Maybe not a peacoat but a caban:





Sorry Spaniard fellow but doing a bespoke caban or peacoat or trenchcoat is, I think, useless.
 

The Shooman

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Shooey, very few makers are using proper pilot cloth if the correct weight.

Amazing post Truth,you seem to know alot about this type of stuff.

Thruth said:
Even Sterlingwear and the US makers only use 24 ounce
That is not my understanding. I understand that most models are 24 oz, but the classic models are still 32 oz:
https://www.schottnyc.com/products/navy-peacoat.htm?catID=5
http://www.sterlingwear.com/cart/men/Mens-Classic/

None-the-less, they are still made with Melton material and have a poly/wool blend like you said.



Thruth said:
you want to get a used version of the navy version, best to get pre-Vietnam vintage
Why not a 1970's navy version, isn't that still one of the good ones?

Thruth said:
The Real McCoys (Japan) do 2 models of peacoat, one a version of the 1913, which is one of the earliest US models.

They use 37 ounce melton in 2 layers, urea buttons, corduroy pocket lining



Will cost you in the $800-900 USD range. But very authentic reproduction and faithful to details

Buzz Rickson (Japan) does one too in 36 ounce melton along with proper details and urea buttons. Similar price
Great information!

I'll see how my two coats work out, if l feel the need for something bigger and fatter i'll go the 37 oz Japanese jobs. Gotta love the Japanese, they seem to want things done properly, real fanatics!

At one point l was even thinking of a bespoke peacoat. Glad l didn't, but l wasn't aware that peacoats could be had so easily and so cheaply.

btw aristoi bcn: those coats don't look very warm.
 

Jupiter

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Why? I agree regarding the trenchcoat but what is a caban if not a short coat to be worn over knitwear?
Because you can find with little effort great fitting RTW for such a casual piece. Only Asian wackos are eager to burn their easy money in bespoke caban or peacoat. Nevertheless I don't want to restrain your desire.
 
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I seem to remember Melton being cheap workwear material twenty five or thirty years ago. I had a Melton donkey jacket, filched from a holiday job digging holes in a road.
 

Thruth

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Amazing post Truth,you seem to know alot about this type of stuff.



That is not my understanding. I understand that most models are 24 oz, but the classic models are still 32 oz:
https://www.schottnyc.com/products/navy-peacoat.htm?catID=5
http://www.sterlingwear.com/cart/men/Mens-Classic/

None-the-less, they are still made with Melton material and have a poly/wool blend like you said.





Why not a 1970's navy version, isn't that still one of the good ones?



Great information!

I'll see how my two coats work out, if l feel the need for something bigger and fatter i'll go the 37 oz Japanese jobs. Gotta love the Japanese, they seem to want things done properly, real fanatics!

At one point l was even thinking of a bespoke peacoat. Glad l didn't, but l wasn't aware that peacoats could be had so easily and so cheaply.

btw aristoi bcn: those coats don't look very warm.
True, they use 32 ounce 80/20 wool poly and have a quilted lining as well. Relatively warm but not like the old ones.

I've had 60's era one's and 70's ones and the 60's ones were better in my opinion: heavier and generally a nicer navy colour compared to the 70's ones.

In the world of wool, there is a big difference from 24 oz to 32 oz to 36 oz.

Filson uses 24 and 28 ounce wool for their outdoor jackets and while decent cannot compare to 36 ounce. Adding a second layer cape over the shoulders and arms makes a huge difference which shows that heft is everything.

Of course for your weather you could get away with lower weight wool. But I think of it in terms of getting something as close to the original as possible and these modern ones from the traditional makers are mere shells of themselves.

The Japanese make amazing homage jackets which are accurate down to the stitching. A lot of people would not think of paying that much for a pea coat. But they are the closest thing to the originals out there.

Check out Hainsworth who still make historically accurate doeskin, melton, duffle and pilot cloth.

I seem to recall ConchitaWurst once telling me that HE Box has/had hefty melton like the old fabrics.
 

Pauly Chase

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I bought a JCrew wool/cashmere overcoat in light camel colorwaylast year, after dropping about 70 dollars on alterations, it became of one of my top to go winter coats. The 10% cashmere adds the softness the coat needed, but the wool keeps me warm.
 

rdiaz

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peacoats are meant to fit loose iirc. even though you see a lot of tailored ones around nowadays. but it's definately not something I'd bespeak
 

Kingstonian

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Peacoats? They are not really overcoats more like a heavy jacket. No protection for thighs or lower legs.

Too boxy looking. I don’t like them.
 

rdiaz

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Peacoats? They are not really overcoats more like a heavy jacket. No protection for thighs or lower legs.

Too boxy looking. I don’t like them.
I liked them when I was thinner, and didn't mind the boxiness at all. But you have to size carefully, as anything slightly oversized with that boxy cut is going to look awful. Too long sleeve length also makes it look too big rather than meant to fit loosely.
 

CesareRomiti

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I liked them when I was thinner, and didn't mind the boxiness at all. But you have to size carefully, as anything slightly oversized with that boxy cut is going to look awful. Too long sleeve length also makes it look too big rather than meant to fit loosely.
Who said boxy
98394BA3-1579-4104-A308-F684C2FD8702.jpeg
 

rdiaz

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The original pea coats were cut close and had more of a flared skirt.
had no idea. that's actually interesting. so they didn't have a suppressed waist like modern incarnations, but rather were slim overall and had the flared skirt? any pictures?
 

The Shooman

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I liked them when I was thinner, and didn't mind the boxiness at all. But you have to size carefully, as anything slightly oversized with that boxy cut is going to look awful. Too long sleeve length also makes it look too big rather than meant to fit loosely.
Yes, finding sizing suitable to unique body is a tricky thing, and it is one reason why l wanted to go custom. Also finding sleeves of perfect length and having a peacoat of ideal length is a tricky thing. Having a slim fitting peacoat with a flared skirt is a wonderful thing, but that is not going to suit everyone's body. Some do have a loser fitting peacoat and it seems to look o.k in many cases.

But yes, fit is king. If things don't fit l won't wear them. Hopefully l will look o.k and not like a box.



shooey - remember the old Bluey Work Jackets?
Yes, and while not beautiful to look at, at least they were certainly far better than the ubiquitous plastic chinese parkas you see on everyone now.


Thruth said:
I've had 60's era one's and 70's ones and the 60's ones were better in my opinion: heavier and generally a nicer navy colour compared to the 70's ones.

In the world of wool, there is a big difference from 24 oz to 32 oz to 36 oz.

Filson uses 24 and 28 ounce wool for their outdoor jackets and while decent cannot compare to 36 ounce. Adding a second layer cape over the shoulders and arms makes a huge difference which shows that heft is everything.

The Japanese make amazing homage jackets which are accurate down to the stitching. A lot of people would not think of paying that much for a pea coat. But they are the closest thing to the originals out there.

Check out Hainsworth who still make historically accurate doeskin, melton, duffle and pilot cloth.

I seem to recall ConchitaWurst once telling me that HE Box has/had hefty melton like the old fabrics.

Amazing post! Thanks.
 

fxh

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I've got 3 - if you count a single breasted one and a designer knitted polo necked one - I only ever wear them with jeans or thick cords or twill trousers
 

The Shooman

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I've got 3 - if you count a single breasted one and a designer knitted polo necked one - I only ever wear them with jeans or thick cords or twill trousers
I am not surprised you own them. Your taste is soooo different to mine, worlds apart!

bluey work jackets = urk.

You are more casual than me.

It's good when you're student or junior consultant or... Canadian.
I think it depends on a person's lifestyle. For me they will be good because l am often up in the middle of the night attending to plants outside or meditating. I am also often in the parks meditating early in the morning, so definitely need extra warm clothes.
 

The Shooman

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I have a stylish fashion house peacoat which is very nice and probably 24oz fabric, and l got a 1970's classic Schott peacoat which is much heavier at around 32oz, but l feel l could go heavier for when it gets cold at night. I really want to go with the big boys...the 36 or 37 oz jobs so l am fully prepared for the coldest weather. The 24oz doesn't feel enough in 52 F weather with two layers of cashmere underneath, but the 32 oz is good, but l don't feel it would be enough when it gets to the mid 40's, so a 36oz job will be bought.

I found some Buzz Rickson 36oz jobs for a good price.
http://www.selfedge.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=361#measure-modal

https://www.historypreservation.com/products-page/brands/buzz-ricksons-pre-wwii-u-s-navy-pea-coat/


Pea Coats exist in many forms now, most of which are some sort of fashion mutation, and all pale in weight and quality of fabric and construction to the issue garments produced prior to the late 1950s – except this Buzz Rickson’s masterpiece!

Once again, Buzz Rickson’s brand has resurrected a bygone treasure from the ground up, utilizing the vintage looms and know-how to craft fabrics not seen in 50 years or more, then deftly sewing the pieces together with vintage Union Special sewing machines to provide a finished product that comes as close to the vintage garment as possible.


and l am making enquiries about the heaviest of them all, the 37 oz.
https://www.realmccoyslondon.com/ro...ea-coat-1913-edition-new-model-n/category/56/

Not sure what l am going to do yet, but l think l should get a heavyweight and be done with it.
 
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The Shooman

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Truth, have you heard of the Japanese peacoats called Freewheelers? A man from Fedora Lounge says they are better than the Buzz Rickson and Real McCoy that he has tried. Supposed to be around $1,000 when ordered from Japan.

Others talk about Real McCoy, Buzz Rickson and Freewheelers here.
https://supertalk.superfuture.com/topic/88551-buzz-rickson-vs-real-mccoys-navy-pea-coat/

Where can l buy a Freewheelers peacoat, and what weight are they?
http://www.freewheelers.co.jp/english/index.html (seems a useless site...can't do much with it)
 
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Thruth

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Truth, have you heard of the Japanese peacoats called Freewheelers? A man from Fedora Lounge says they are better than the Buzz Rickson and Real McCoy that he has tried. Supposed to be around $1,000 when ordered from Japan.

Others talk about Real McCoy, Buzz Rickson and Freewheelers here.
https://supertalk.superfuture.com/topic/88551-buzz-rickson-vs-real-mccoys-navy-pea-coat/

Where can l buy a Freewheelers peacoat, and what weight are they?
http://www.freewheelers.co.jp/english/index.html (seems a useless site...can't do much with it)
Shooey,

Same weight (36 ounce I think).

I don't think they are making it currently.

I Checked Speedway on Rakutan, Pancho & Lefty, Son of Stag, and it is not currently stocked.
 

Dropbear

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I had a 1967 USN peacoat for a while - wonderfully thick, oily Kersey wool. Much better weather resistance than Melton. I ended-up getting rid of it because I'd rather have something I can wear buttoned or unbuttoned.

I prefer duffle coats - wider variety of colors usually available (including camel), hood, can be worn unbuttoned/zipped and usually a little longer.

morris-duffle-coat-gloverall-mens-hood-overcoat_938_1024x1024_crop_center.jpg
 
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