Trousers

[fxh]

I was browsing SF and found this blokes efforts with Luxire. Now a lesser person then myself might have poked fun at his attempt.
Luxire Custom Clothing - Official Affiliate Thread - Page 1267

However what little I read the bloke seemed remarkably aware of himself and his body shape/issues and not defensive. Then a bit later he posted a pic, most likely professionally taken but nonetheless instructive.

His trousers from Luxire based on measuring his best trousers - as I recall his wedding trousers. The Luxire pants look pretty bloody awful. Now this might be due to him fiddling too much with measurements but I think he said he didn't too much. Its probably a lot to do with the material - cotton? - and not being ironed properly. (as an aside I don't get why people post pictures asking for advice yet not ironing stuff) Its probably not Luxire - as apart from their issues with the block pattern for crotch/rear - they don't claim to be 4 generations of Italian tailors - they can and do make an ok trousers.

Now look at his wedding photo - those trousers look just right for him.

Sure it isn't as easy for him to look good as it is for a tall slim bloke but in real life there a lot of guys like him.

Just goes to show - making trousers isn't all that easy. Certainly from online orders

I'm sure Journeyman can post a collection of pictures of The Most Perfect Trouser in The World. Although we may have to wait a year to see the post.

I think the fellow is Canadian.

Spoiler: cough

(NTTAWWT)

 

[Russell Street]

Geez, there have been times where I try on cheap RTW chinos and wrinkles make it hard to judge, so I usually pass.
Still, that crotch thing and the pleat pulling is odd for something not clearly way too tight. The side view shows a dip in the waistband from back to front.

 

[Thruth]

He should have sent in his wedding trousers to be copied thereby eliminating any measuring error on his part. still might have had a bit of a problem because he ordered cotton versus wool.

Seems to me the single best reason for using Luxire would be to replicate something that fits well in any of a large number of fabrics.

Self-measurement seems to result in the typical Internet generated MTO which is generally not anything to write home about

 

[doghouse]

He should have sent in his wedding trousers to be copied thereby eliminating any measuring

Do we know he still weighs the same as his wedding day?

 

[Thruth]

Do we know he still weighs the same as his wedding day?

Not for sure, although he says his wedding trousers for him well

 

[fxh]

I might go back and check that thread but I thought he measured his wedding trousers.

I think his wedding trousers look great Cosidering his build. Guys like him often have either too tight and narrow or too loose and wide. I wonder why he didn't go back to his suit maker for trousers.
I might try and follow his progress. Is their a way to stalk a person on SF other like just follow his progress on trousers?

I realise that's a silly question. Too tired. Been reading and writing all day.

 

[Thruth]

I might go back and check that thread but I thought he measured his wedding trousers.

I think his wedding trousers look great Cosidering his build. Guys like him often have either too tight and narrow or too loose and wide. I wonder why he didn't go back to his suit maker for trousers.
I might try and follow his progress. Is their a way to stalk a person on SF other like just follow his progress on trousers?

I realise that's a silly question. Too tired. Been reading and writing all day.

Doubtful he had the wedding suit commissioned. Most likely RTW given that I believe he is a grad student

 

[Scherensammler]

From the looks of it I'd say the trousers are a bit too straight at the centre back, which compromises the comfort.
Some cutters I've seen convert a flat front pattern into a pleated pattern either by adding on to the waist and let the side seam run back in at the knee level or by opening the top of the front pattern and down to the hem. In both cases the fronts get wider.
There is also the possibility that, if the difference between waist and seat measure is big enough, the basic, flat front pattern is kept and there are only added/ put in pleats at the top.

I wonder if Luxire asks for thigh measurements, and in this case the thighs are quite thick, in fact so much that they pull the crotch forward.

 

[Monkeyface]

Trousers are 3D, measurements 2D. It'll never work if you don't fit their standard cut. Sending in trousers is much better.

 

[ConchitaWurst]

 

[fxh]

From the looks of it I'd say the trousers are a bit too straight at the centre back, which compromises the comfort.
Some cutters I've seen convert a flat front pattern into a pleated pattern either by adding on to the waist and let the side seam run back in at the knee level or by opening the top of the front pattern and down to the hem. In both cases the fronts get wider.
There is also the possibility that, if the difference between waist and seat measure is big enough, the basic, flat front pattern is kept and there are only added/ put in pleats at the top.

I wonder if Luxire asks for thigh measurements, and in this case the thighs are quite thick, in fact so much that they pull the crotch forward.

I'm pretty sure Luxire has originally got a jeans pattern/block down ok then, unfortunately, modified it to make trousers, then modified for pleats. Hence the problems we see. If they had made a hired a gun trouser pattern maker and made a trouser pattern from scratch things would be better. conf: pleats gaping, baggy bum.

Given that, Luxire would have been better to make a standard trouser available with minimum almost standard alterations and advice on how far these alterations could be safely taken. The ultimate customisation makes for a dangerous way to live, in that most people don't know how to measure properly, or even what suits them, or how modifications are made to trousers.

To give Luxire their due they seem to have deep enough pockets (small word play)to keep going until they get enough skills and repeat orders and not go under. The payoff has to be once someone has got their pattern tweaked to fit in shirts and trouser then they will simply re-order.

I still don't understand, from a business point of view, why they don't do a bunch of RTW shirts in standard sizes etc. with say sleeve length options. For most people on most days this is more than good enough.

Anyway - I created this more because I thought it might pay off in terms of the fact that he guy above seems (small word play) to be open eyed enough to make it all work for him. And because I've noticed guys of his build have a lot of problems getting trousers just right and I think - based on one photo only - that his wedding trousers look right for him.

Scherensammler - they do ask for thigh measurements but from memory they used to ask for a lot more measuring points. Naturally for those who knew what they were doing this improved things (eg EFV and Betelguese) but at the same time for those who don't know what they are doing (most) it increased by a large factor the possibility of getting it very wrong. Obviously they have a CAD with block patterns they tweak.

I'm sure I'm not saying anything you don't already know. But its not simple - all CADs use a grading model - now mostly for many bodies this works but grading is an art as much as a science and as anyone who has tailor made clothes knows its the art of tailoring not (only) the measurement/technical skills that make the difference. Within certain parameters say up or down a size for example, grading works well. But at the further reaches it is problematic.

So, paradoxically, whilst made to measure (or to be fair to Luxire a slightly more refined customisation) is a godsend for the unusual body or demands, it also works least best when you deviate most from the mean/average body.

ahh - its a funny old world isn't it.

 

[fxh]

View attachment 7660 View attachment 7661

I do think if he'd hit them hard with the iron (both pressing and ironing like a tailor) before pics they wouldn't look so bad - it is a cotton trial pant after all.

edit: and given that no matter what he does - with those thighs etc - he's going to get stress and pulling - he'd be better off to stick with wool (or a thick cavalry twill) - it will hold shape and drape better then cotton for him.

 

[Scherensammler]

Scherensammler - they do ask for thigh measurements but from memory they used to ask for a lot more measuring points. Naturally for those who knew what they were doing this improved things (eg EFV and Betelguese) but at the same time for those who don't know what they are doing (most) it increased by a large factor the possibility of getting it very wrong. Obviously they have a CAD with block patterns they tweak.

Found the measuring instructions: Bespoke Shirts by Luxire. Custom made to Perfection
Some are hard to execute, like that of the back rise and the (front) hips, especially when the trousers to be copied are pleated.
I would measure the hips across with the pleats open, as that gives an estimate how wide the trousers are in the front. Plus it reduces the chance for massive errors.
Normally, from a drafting/ construction point of view, pleated trousers are wider in the back, too. These look like they only changed the front and not the back, hence the tightness.
But in general, those trousers are a decent starting point, and with a few tweaks they'll get better.

 

[fxh]

Scherensammler : I copied and pasted the below from SF.
What would you suggest for this bloke?.
On two levels.
What should he do measuring on his next Luxire order and,
also, - a separate, but related, issue
What should he ask his alterationist to do - assuming its not a proper men's tailor?

Would building in extra ease and seam allowances with Luxire order be a good idea to allow for future alteration closer to home?

-------begin copy and paste from SF -------

I'm a newbie to Luxire and MTM looking for some advise. I've been reading this thread and others at SF, but finally I've stumbled on something that has me a bit stumped.

I'm was trying to tweak some measurements from a pair of well fitting pants, so the measurements that I gave for my order were a little different. The main issue for me is that I have a bubble butt and even "well fittting" OTR pants tend to be tight, through the rise (mostly back, but also a little in the front). For these pants I added 3/4" in the rear hoping to avoid the usual "wedgie" that I get when I wear anything other than loose fit pants and a weird thing happened: the wedgie is still there (and is in fact a little more pronounced that in the pants I measured) but there is also large bunching of material on the top part of the rear rise, right below the belt line.



Stranger still, there is a bunch of loose fabric below the buttocks that imply I would need a smaller 1/2 thigh measurement, but it is all in the back. The pants fit fine the front (beyond a little pulling at the crotch which I think would go away if I could fix the wedgie issue).


I'm concerned that a simple reduction of the measurement would make the pants tighter across the front. In the front the fit across the thighs is about what you would expect for trim/slim (but not skinny) pants. Anything more than a 1/4" that goes into my front pockets gets "pinned down" against my thighs when I sit down and looks like it is vacuum packed in navy fabric. I'm fine with that fit because usually I don't carry much in those pockets.

So, does anyone have any suggestions on how to correct these problems? For the first one it seems that the problem is less the actual length of the rise and more how that rise is distributed in the pattern. In other words finding a way to add the length to the bottom of the rise rather than the top would do the trick. For the second one, I guess the solution would be to reduce the 1/2 thigh measurement, but somehow do it for only the rear panel of the pants. Am I on the right track here?

Thank you so much! I'm planning on emailing Luxire and show them the pics, but I wanted to get some second opinions first. Also I'm trying to find out if there is a specific set of terms/language that I can use to explain these problems. I'm sure Luxire can recommened to add a bit here or subtract a bit there from the existing pants pattern, which would work well for now. However, I would also like to find a way of making the request to someone who may no have the previous pattern. I love Luxire and plan on being a long term customer, but at some point I may need to use another MTM service and I don't know how these fixes would be integrated into a regular set of measurements and styling requests.
-------end copy and paste from SF -------

 

[colco]

^^ people who do not understand fit should not be ordering online MTM. Half of his pants look like they are in his ass crack.

 

[The Shooman]

I was browsing SF and found this blokes efforts with Luxire. Now a lesser person then myself might have poked fun at his attempt.
Luxire Custom Clothing - Official Affiliate Thread - Page 1267

Yes, this bloke has similar problems with trouser fit like l do, except my fit issues are far FARRR worse, however he has the same problem of having big calfs and thighs pull the line of his trousers out so they pool everywhere. Fortunately he has a decent backside so that helps keep the line better than it otherwise would be. I have no backside at all (it is flat), so in comparison to these pics above these blokes in the pics have backsides big as houses compared to what l have.

Trousers are far harder to make fit for some people than jackets. My tailor can make a coat in one go fit me, but he has needed 5 or 6 goes at pants because l am pretty much impossible to fit properly. For trousers l am a tailors ultimate nightmare. And yeah, l don't even have a seat in my pants, they are made so basically nothing is there, and my rise is the lowest you will ever see, so it will mean l need to completely undo my trousers and pull them down somewhat if l go to the urinal because of the special way my trousers are dsigned.

For rtw l have the messiest trousers you will ever see. Hideous. You should see how messy rtw trousers are from behind me, they just hang there and then pool chronically all over the legs at the front and back.

If l got that fit above for MTM l would be totally ecstatic, but it is simply not possible to obtain that fit with my body.

 

[Thruth]

Yes, this bloke has similar problems with trouser fit like l do, except my fit issues are far FARRR worse, however he has the same problem of having big calfs and thighs pull the line of his trousers out so they pool everywhere. Fortunately he has a decent backside so that helps keep the line better than it otherwise would be. I have no backside at all (it is flat), so in comparison to these pics above these blokes in the pics have backsides big as houses compared to what l have.

Trousers are far harder to make fit for some people than jackets. My tailor can make a coat in one go fit me, but he has needed 5 or 6 goes at pants because l am pretty much impossible to fit properly. For trousers l am a tailors ultimate nightmare. And yeah, l don't even have a seat in my pants, they are made so basically nothing is there, and my rise is the lowest you will ever see, so it will mean l need to completely undo my trousers and pull them down somewhat if l go to the urinal because of the special way my trousers are dsigned.

For rtw l have the messiest trousers you will ever see. Hideous. You should see how messy rtw trousers are from behind me, they just hang there and then pool chronically all over the legs at the front and back.

If l got that fit above for MTM l would be totally ecstatic, but it is simply not possible to obtain that fit with my body.

Good thing you are called The Shooman and not The Trouserman

 

[colco]

How about buying some trousers with pleats, a decent rise and some room though the leg? You know, pants designed for men and not teenage boys.

 

[Grand Potentate]

Good thing you are called The Shooman and not The Trouserman

Thank god for small favors

 

[Thruth]

Thank god for small favors

I would just hate to see The Shooman posting pics of his rousers crawling up his ass

How about buying some trousers with pleats, a decent rise and some room though the leg? You know, pants designed for men and not teenage boys.

pleats are an esthetic consideration. If the the trousers are crawling up the crack of that dude's ass he is either misshapen or buying the wrong size (I will exclude The Shooman from this discussion).

Too much is made of pleats vs non-pleats in terms of fit. Rise is important but this too is an esthetic concern.

There has always been a place for slender for trousers. I'm old enough to recall when they fell out of favour for baggy, faggy pleated and almost fucking Hammer-Don't-Hurt-Then parachute pants.

Give flat front, not-up-to-your-fucking-armpits-rise a break.

It comes down to the individual.

I ask you: when was the last time you went out the door with your pants crawling up the crack of your ass other than when you kind of shot yourself and didn't have time to completely wipe, Lysol or clean yourself up?

 

[The Shooman]

QUOTE="Thruth, post: 135994, member: 387"]Good thing you are called The Shooman and not The Trouserman[/QUOTE]

Yes, but it really sucks when you see every other person who looks half decent in rtw pants knowing you could never look like that in rtw ever!!! . This simply means l don't have too many pants or rtw suits because hardly anything rtw or mtm will ever fit me. I can't just go to shops and buy rtw pants, l may need to try on 100 pairs in a year to find one pair that somewhat fits (still looks worse than everyone elses fit). The thing is...I either pay $1,200 - $2,000 per bespoke pair from my tailor, or l continue to live a nightmare.

The problem with going to my tailor for bespoke pants is that my weight fluctuates, so after a few wears the pants no longer fit me. My pants are made to fit me tight around the waist because that is they only way they can be made for me. Slightlyloser doesn'twork for my body shape. If l rely on a belt to keep them up my pants will fall down after 4 or 5 paces because l have no backside and waist to help hold them up. Using braces is not always an option.

Seriously guys, l have ,MAJOR problems when it comes to trousers. My options are extremely limited. Pretty much every other guy has tonnes of options, but l only have one option, so when my weight slightly changes the bespoke no longer work. At the moment l have put on a touch more weight, so now none of my bespokes work for me, so now l am totally in the sh*t because my pants collection is down to bare bones and suits are currently unwearable. I am going to get a new suit made soon, but l am sure after 6 months it will be unwearable also.

 

[fxh]

I've been called a Pants Man. Is that the same thing?

 

[fxh]

I've never had a good look at shooey's bum.

 

[The Shooman]

I've never had a good look at shooey's bum.

I'll show you next time l see you. You will laugh your head off because you won't be ableto see it, and you will ask me, hey shooey, where's your b*m mate?', and l will simply say, I haven't got one mate. .

 

[The Shooman]

I've been called a Pants Man. Is that the same thing?

You got plenty of pants in your house? If you have then you are very fortunate. By the way things are going l may not have any pants to wear before too long. I may have to wear my shoos with tracksuit pants with an elastic waist haha.

 

[Scherensammler]

The only way to combine big seat/ butt with close fitting legs is to go for stretchy materials.
Millions of fat women around the world are proof of that.

Using any standard (size) pattern and just add and/ or subtract in certain areas doesn't work.

It looks as if the inside leg is too long compared to the outside leg, or the trousers generally too "open". Plus the fork is too small (hence the pulling into his crack).

For more: How the knee width of trouser legs effects the width of the crotch - The Basic Apprentices' Forum