X Of Pentacles- Neckwear, Pocket Squares, and such

[XofPentacles]

Afternoon,

My name is Marcel and my brand is X (Ten) of Pentacles. Like the Tarot Card. Formally TheBlackBruceWayne on the "other" forum since 2009, decided to jump ship as I was not willing to sell my first born and livestock in exchange for facetime with the very community I made my products for.

I'll keep it simple. It's an American interpretation of Neapolitan Sartorialism. I was a fan before the bead bracelets, lapel flowers, and "sprezzatura" ( although I do spam that S word on Insta. guilty as charged).

First collection consists of
Neckwear
22oz Silk Twill Ties ( DIGITAL PRINT ) 3-fold, un-tipped, rolled edges. Printed in Macclesfield. They have 100% wool interlinings, which give a bit more elasticity but hold a great knot.
10cm in width 160cm in length
Feature a Madder-esque medallion print that I drew and digitized. I wanted to stick with classics but not use archived patterns that get continuously recycled. So I made my own.

https://xofpentacles.com/collections/neckwear/products/silk-twill-medallion-print-tie

Pocket Squares

40cm X 40cm. Hand-Rolled Edges ( I have these hand rolled in france, as they do a much better job and i'm not about to get arthritis rolling all that shit) Also printed in Macclesfield.

70% Wool, 30% Silk Gauze.

Also feature designs I created. Originally intended as a heritage collection for a local brand here in Virginia , to no avail. Also found out people in Richmond don't wear pocket squares, unless they come as part of a nifty BOGO special. I still think these are pretty cool and an alternative to the pure varieties of silk, wool, or linen. These are very lightweight.

https://xofpentacles.com/collections/pocket-squares

Hope i'm not spamming the thread with too many pictures. have two below, the rest can be seen on the site or xofpentacles instagram.

"King Neptune" Square-

"Colonial Cannon Blast"

Shoutouts to Thruth for letting me post my wares!! I look forward to any questions, comments, feedback, and especially kopz.

-XOP

 

[Grand Potentate]

a few things after a quick glance:

what's with the name? are we married to this? nothing screams quality mens goods like tarot cards??? the logo is weird.

the tie models need some work. not only the tie boners but the outfits they're wearing. tie prices are reasonable.

the squares are silly but attractive, which I like in a square. why did you choose to use a wool/silk mix? prices seem high for a square at $65.

what's the deal with the polo shirts? do you have a big market for $200 polo shirts?

what part of Virginia are you in? might be in doghouse 's neck of the woods.

its pretty bad ass that you made your own tie patterns and squares. that takes some balls to put out there.

 

[doghouse]

Well King Neptune is from the boardwalk here, so he is close.

 

[XofPentacles]

a few things after a quick glance:

what's with the name? are we married to this? nothing screams quality mens goods like tarot cards??? the logo is weird.

the tie models need some work. not only the tie boners but the outfits they're wearing. tie prices are reasonable.

the squares are silly but attractive, which I like in a square. why did you choose to use a wool/silk mix? prices seem high for a square at $65.

what's the deal with the polo shirts? do you have a big market for $200 polo shirts?

what part of Virginia are you in? might be in doghouse 's neck of the woods.

its pretty bad ass that you made your own tie patterns and squares. that takes some balls to put out there.

you can call it XOP for short. Married to it?...maybe and only because of retail/city/ state license paperwork and not wanting to change it. The logo was taken from a Hindu meditation called the Tattwas. They symbolize Air, Fire, Water, Earth respectively, but in essence stand for the process of creation.

Sounds like some hocus pocus shit, but Air= vision, Fire= strong emotion or desire, attached to your thoughts/vision, water=fluidity being able to adapt, earth= final materialization of said thoughts. I would change the name before I ever changed the logo. It is how I operate.

Tie models as in the forms I use? Glad about the prices, That was a struggle in finding something reasonable to justify costs, be competitive, and also not dick people. I've seen some world class trash being sold for $100+

In all honesty, I chose wool/silk mix because it felt really cool and was different from typical pure linen, silk, or wool. And I planned on doing 100% silk ties, so I wanted a contrast in fabric textures. As for price, I intended on placing most of my inventory in retail/e-commerce spaces for sake of exposure. The suggested retail is on par with that of Drake's , and a few others.
I would be happy to sell at $45 if I knew I had enough of a following. The $65 price was just to be fair to any people I sold wholesale inventory too, as to not compete. But I don't currently have any wholesale arrangements, so i'm happy to provide discount codes for the forum.

Polo shirts were an idea I had about 2 years ago, where I wanted to combine the construction of a dress shirt, the look of a polo, and fabric of a lightweight sweater. I was tired of my polo collars flopping down, and so I thought to put an interfacing in them. Thus I had no supplier and didn't find one until a year later. They were also expensive to make, driving up the sale price. The other issue i've had is that several others have started to produce something similar. I haven't seen any with the portofino cuffs, yet same concept. Either way, they did not take off and will probably be phased out. I"m located in Richmond, Virginia.

The guys that would/do pay $200 for polo shirts or RTW shirts are buying Peter Millar, lululemon, Ledbury and other known brands to wear to the golf course.

Thanks! It was a def ballsy, but I wanted something original that stayed in the same bloodline. I also wanted to stand out. There are so many other companies that make ties, hand-rolled, screen/digi printed, 40 folds, blah blah and do them really fucking well. What separates me is that because i'm small and front all the costs, I can only produce but so many. The designs are original, and i'm based in the U.S. Wanted to skip the handjobs and just offer the menswear audience a classic product with a twist.

Those were some kick-ass questions Grand Potentate !! Hope I answered everything sufficiently.

 

[XofPentacles]

Well King Neptune is from the boardwalk here, so he is close.

Yes Sir! we're about 2 hours apart, as long as I-64 isn't gridlocked. I feel like I heard they were taking Neptune down? I love Paul DiPascale's work. Colors inspired by The Beach Boys "Surfs Up" album

 

[Darkside]

Wool/silk is a great fabric combination for pocket squares. It dumbs down the formality, and in turn makes them more versatile. It also adds more friction between the fabric of the jacket and the square so they keep their form and don't slip down into the pocket as easily.

Questions/comments:

- Why 10 cm for the ties? Seems wide for modern and even classic tastes.
- The florette-turned-pinwheel motif on the ties is interesting; I like the desert rose one the best probably, but maybe because the pinwheels are the most obscured in that colorway.
- Love the squares. Playful but clearly effective when folded, which is nicely displayed. $65 is high though.
- Logo and theory behind it is awesome, though I am biased. The name will undoubtedly confuse the shit out of people, but the arcaneness of it might eventually help you. Who knows?
- Welcome. Thanks for sharing, and good luck with your venture.

 

[doghouse]

as long as I-64 isn't gridlocked.

I'll reply in about 20 minutes once I've quit laughing at the suggestion that there is ever a time 64 isn't gridlock.


But I haven't heard anything about Neptune coming down. There was a brouhaha with an artist and the city about some decoration this year, but that's about all I know of.

 

[XofPentacles]

Wool/silk is a great fabric combination for pocket squares. It dumbs down the formality, and in turn makes them more versatile. It also adds more friction between the fabric of the jacket and the square so they keep their form and don't slip down into the pocket as easily.

Questions/comments:

- Why 10 cm for the ties? Seems wide for modern and even classic tastes.
- The florette-turned-pinwheel motif on the ties is interesting; I like the desert rose one the best probably, but maybe because the pinwheels are the most obscured in that colorway.
- Love the squares. Playful but clearly effective when folded, which is nicely displayed. $65 is high though.
- Logo and theory behind it is awesome, though I am biased. The name will undoubtedly confuse the shit out of people, but the arcaneness of it might eventually help you. Who knows?
- Welcome. Thanks for sharing, and good luck with your venture.

Hey Darkside! Thanks for the welcome and the feedback.

Ditto on the squares!

The ties are a bit wide but foregoing the tipping and having them rolled makes the width less noticeable. Since I tend to cut a few at a time, I could easily adjust the width if asked. Good to know.
The Desert Rose colorway was a bit difficult to achieve . The original color palette was a deeper mauve with more purple tones, with pale moss green and dark brown as the medallion colors. This also was my first interaction with the factory and believe it or not was difficult translating pantone colors across the pond. As was the interpretation of color per my computer vs my phone; The latter being most accurate in matching what the factory saw. Nonetheless I was pleased with how it turned out. Definitely learned a great deal about color calibration through trial and error. I also made it a point to include complimentary colors in my pocket squares that would pick up those of the ties.

Thanks! Being the 2nd person to consider the price point high, I'm curious to know what the consensus is for a reasonable price. I also have to ask if you would pay $65 for say a drake's square?

Ditto on the name. I often get strange looks or people that have trouble pronouncing it. Would it help to just abbreviate it as XOP?

 

[Monkeyface]

Price for ties is good, pocket square too high.
I like that you make your own designs instead of using archived prints like the rest. However, your own tie design isn't the most attractive, so needs some work. I like the squares better, but don't really wear them any more aside from white linen.

Solid B+.

 

[XofPentacles]

Price for ties is good, pocket square too high.
I like that you make your own designs instead of using archived prints like the rest. However, your own tie design isn't the most attractive, so needs some work. I like the squares better, but don't really wear them any more aside from white linen.

Solid B+.

Appreciate the feedback. I'll ask the same to you: What is a reasonable price to you and would you pay $65+ for a Drakes square?

 

[Monkeyface]

Appreciate the feedback. I'll ask the same to you: What is a reasonable price to you and would you pay $65+ for a Drakes square?

$35, and no I would not

 

[XofPentacles]

Any interest in a madder pattern i came up with for spring?

, though i know there are several that are similar in existence. Might end up changing. Playing around with colorways, and will probably remove the strokes (black outline)

* the spaces are uneven, just a visual concept before I do any tweaking*

 

[Monkeyface]

Too busy and very ugly colours

 

[doghouse]

Any interest in a madder pattern i came up with for spring?View attachment 20312 , though i know there are several that are similar in existence. Might end up changing. Playing around with colorways, and will probably remove the strokes (black outline)

* the spaces are uneven, just a visual concept before I do any tweaking*

I like the left side, not so much the right.

 

[Thruth]

Any interest in a madder pattern i came up with for spring?View attachment 20312 , though i know there are several that are similar in existence. Might end up changing. Playing around with colorways, and will probably remove the strokes (black outline)

* the spaces are uneven, just a visual concept before I do any tweaking*

Should balance your madder offerings with some muted ones. If you are going to have more flash madder you might want to consider the paisley style as in my opinion it works better with more vibrant colours.

 

[viaattovannucci]

Welcome to DW! Considering the amount of lurkers here from the other forum, and despite the barrage of insults you might receive from the posters of this one, you will probably be positively surprised by the amount of business you will get through this thread over the long term.

I don't have much to say about your larger vision of the brand; it is quite literally not my business. For my part, as an end customer, I think your price point is reasonable for the ties. I can't say the same thing about the pocket squares. But, then again, I usually stick to old-school hankies, and I can never see myself paying more than $50 dollars for something like that and that very rarely.

You should be commended for having actually thought this through and having made the effort to conceive a niche for yourself with original designs, rather than churning out "ancient thirsts" like all the other idiots who should go unnamed. Time will tell if there is actually a market for this niche, and I sincerely hope that there is!

 

[doghouse]

Considering the amount of lurkers here from the other forum, and despite the barrage of insults you might receive from the posters of this one

When have we ever insulted anyone you stuck-up, half-witted, scruffy-looking nerf herder?

 

[viaattovannucci]

Any interest in a madder pattern i came up with for spring?View attachment 20312 , though i know there are several that are similar in existence. Might end up changing. Playing around with colorways, and will probably remove the strokes (black outline)

* the spaces are uneven, just a visual concept before I do any tweaking*

I think they are very busy. Why not play around with just two figures of different sizes and shapes and let the uneven empty space take care of the rest for you?

As for the existing designs, I think the ties will probably be too wide for the average customer. They sure play off well with the generous lapels of your DB coat. Is that your niche?

My favorite is the "desert rose." I would have probably gotten one - nice tip-of-the-hat with the subtle Stars of David, there - but I don't need something dangling down my neck to remind people of my Semitic origins. My face already does that!

 

[XofPentacles]

Should balance your madder offerings with some muted ones. If you are going to have more flash madder you might want to consider the paisley style as in my opinion it works better with more vibrant colours.

Noted. I have a variant of that pattern with just solid ground, but was going to reserve it for a raw silk or something with an interesting texture.

When you say muted, you referring to colors or the pattern itself?

 

[Thruth]

Noted. I have a variant of that pattern with just solid ground, but was going to reserve it for a raw silk or something with an interesting texture.

When you say muted, you referring to colors or the pattern itself?

Both. Patterns are a bit busy and coupled with the bright colours they are kind of an antithesis of what I think of madder to be.

 

[XofPentacles]

Welcome to DW! Considering the amount of lurkers here from the other forum, and despite the barrage of insults you might receive from the posters of this one, you will probably be positively surprised by the amount of business you will get through this thread over the long term.

I don't have much to say about your larger vision of the brand; it is quite literally not my business. For my part, as an end customer, I think your price point is reasonable for the ties. I can't say the same thing about the pocket squares. But, then again, I usually stick to old-school hankies, and I can never see myself paying more than $50 dollars for something like that and that very rarely.

You should be commended for having actually thought this through and having made the effort to conceive a niche for yourself with original designs, rather than churning out "ancient thirsts" like all the other idiots who should go unnamed. Time will tell if there is actually a market for this niche, and I sincerely hope that there is!

I appreciate your sentiments and encouragement, it means a lot. Really been gathering a lot so far. Everyone in this thread has been pretty cool actually. Even if something is considered ugly, I attribute that to personal preference. Everyone's taste in color is different. I just try to avoid the tacky look at all costs haha. I do hope to see success with the thread as this is my target audience. I wanted to grow with the aficionados and not be some subscription box brand that sold novelties. I'm sure I could make $ selling trends, but that isn't my style. Thanks again for the feedback!

As far as width goes, I cut my ties a few at a time, so im happy to accommodate smaller widths easily. When knotted, you wouldn't even be able to tell it was as wide.

 

[XofPentacles]

I think they are very busy. Why not play around with just two figures of different sizes and shapes and let the uneven empty space take care of the rest for you?

As for the existing designs, I think the ties will probably be too wide for the average customer. They sure play off well with the generous lapels of your DB coat. Is that your niche?

My favorite is the "desert rose." I would have probably gotten one - nice tip-of-the-hat with the subtle Stars of David, there - but I don't need something dangling down my neck to remind people of my Semitic origins. My face already does that!

Thanks! I'll go back to the drawing board on this. I was actually inspired by a poinsettia but good point it does look like the star of David! Or the merkabah for the new agists.

 

[viaattovannucci]

I appreciate your sentiments and encouragement, it means a lot. Really been gathering a lot so far. Everyone in this thread has been pretty cool actually. Even if something is considered ugly, I attribute that to personal preference. Everyone's taste in color is different. I just try to avoid the tacky look at all costs haha. I do hope to see success with the thread as this is my target audience. I wanted to grow with the aficionados and not be some subscription box brand that sold novelties. I'm sure I could make $ selling trends, but that isn't my style. Thanks again for the feedback!

Cheers!

As far as width goes, I cut my ties a few at a time, so im happy to accommodate smaller widths easily. When knotted, you wouldn't even be able to tell it was as wide.

Once again, I admire your willingness to step out of the box/mainstream, while remaining accommodating (as any good merchant should!). I just wanted to recall that the current trend tends towards 8 cm rather than 10, but you already know that. Personally, I have plenty of wide ties in my wardrobe, and I think they have their place as long as they don't cross the 4"/10 cm threshold. Otherwise, it veers off into costume territory.

And he speaks the Thruth when it comes to ancient madder.

 

[XofPentacles]

Both. Patterns are a bit busy and coupled with the bright colours they are kind of an antithesis of what I think of madder to be.

View attachment 20313 View attachment 20314 View attachment 20315 View attachment 20316 View attachment 20317

Ok that makes sense. This was the variant I played with. Absent of secondary colours. I have a few more in the sketch pad.

As far as addressing pocket square price with everyone. I think $35 might be justifiable if it were a group buy, say a minimum of 20-25 people, but to drop that low for any less and keep inventory probably wouldn't enable me to offer much. I would have to sell out just to roll out the next collection. I'm also a one man operation, so i don't have investors or a large firm backing me. I'm a "mom & pop" accessories company essentially shop, so there is more risk involved

 

[Arnathor]

I think it is very brave of you to put up all those costs for the squares, I sew my own and not into printing custom designs just yet, so in a way I envy where you are.

 

[Thruth]

I think it is very brave of you to put up all those costs for the squares, I sew my own and not into printing custom designs just yet, so in a way I envy where you are.

but you've sold 280 which is nothing to sniff at. complimenti

 

[Monkeyface]

I sense a collab coming up! Design a square with little jockies riding piggies on it and arnie can sew it!

 

[Arnathor]

Aww, wouldn't that be nice.

 

[Leitmotif]

Your polo dress shirt is nice, I like the collars very much, the cuff buttons not so much. A polo shirt goes well along or with a sc. i personally own a Borelli and its tasty. Perhaps you could do one with a buttons on the collar and a nice roll.

Good luck on your business!

 

[QuandoDio]

Any interest in a madder pattern i came up with for spring?View attachment 20312 , though i know there are several that are similar in existence. Might end up changing. Playing around with colorways, and will probably remove the strokes (black outline)

* the spaces are uneven, just a visual concept before I do any tweaking*

Left-side is nice. Right would make better scarves.

160cm length is a bit long and the 10cm width is a bit much for the ties but pricing is fair.

Nice whimsical squares but price a bit high - though seems to be the going rate for these 'operations' i suppose e.g Kimber/Monsieur Fox /Rumisu. Igents are cheap and normally wait for the sales for those. I seldom wear anything other than white linen

Appreciate the original designs.

Welcome and Good Luck

 

[doghouse]

but you've sold 280 which is nothing to sniff at. complimenti

ToptopEliteMom&Pop™

 

[XofPentacles]

Left-side is nice. Right would make better scarves.

160cm length is a bit long and the 10cm width is a bit much for the ties but pricing is fair.

Nice whimsical squares but price a bit high - though seems to be the going rate for these 'operations' i suppose e.g Kimber/Monsieur Fox /Rumisu. Igents are cheap and normally wait for the sales for those. I seldom wear anything other than white linen

Appreciate the original designs.

Welcome and Good Luck

Thank You. Yes in terms of price, I chose to stick with the going rate of competitors as most tend to sell retail and wholesale, so prices must match as to not undercut the latter.

Haha good to know about igents being cheap. Though I have seen a few of the aforementioned brands sell out of certain squares, so some of those guys must be buying!

I used to make solid raw silk ties as well before I got my own fabrics. Considering bringing them back at a $50 price point.

 

[Darkside]

Thank You. Yes in terms of price, I chose to stick with the going rate of competitors as most tend to sell retail and wholesale, so prices must match as to not undercut the latter.

Haha good to know about igents being cheap. Though I have seen a few of the aforementioned brands sell out of certain squares, so some of those guys must be buying!

I used to make solid raw silk ties as well before I got my own fabrics. Considering bringing them back at a $50 price point. View attachment 20325 View attachment 20324

I would kop the shit out of those raw silks at $50. I don't even wear ties. Also, pocket squares at $40-45 is reasonable (a la Kent Wang). I also don't even wear pocket squares.

 

[XofPentacles]

I'll be out of town from the 30th thru the 4th, but I can get the fabric next week and churn them out in a day or so. Any other colors of interest besides the navy or russet i posted?

I'm also happy to run a $20 off code this week for the forum on skwarez.

 

[Arnathor]

I'll be out of town from the 30th thru the 4th, but I can get the fabric next week and churn them out in a day or so. Any other colors of interest besides the navy or russet i posted?

I'm also happy to run a $20 off code this week for the forum on skwarez.

I'd do one in russet

 

[Grand Potentate]

in regards to the squares, I'd think $40 is the max-ish. Drakes are horrendously overpriced and few if any buy them full price anyway.

I'll be out of town from the 30th thru the 4th, but I can get the fabric next week and churn them out in a day or so. Any other colors of interest besides the navy or russet i posted?

better to give them the list of colors you can get and/or pictures to have them choose.

skwarez

no no. no.

 

[XofPentacles]

in regards to the squares, I'd think $40 is the max-ish. Drakes are horrendously overpriced and few if any buy them full price anyway.


better to give them the list of colors you can get and/or pictures to have them choose.


no no. no.

I still have enough of the russet to do at least 1.
Will check availability on other colors and be back in the a.m. with pictures

 

[FriendCustomer]

Free goodies for top shillers bloggers i see :

 

[QuandoDio]

Inspector
FriendCustomer is on the case!

 

[doghouse]

kop