Black Ivy - Jason Jules again

[Sammy Ambrose]

This guy was oversold so much by Frosty that I think many people got sick of hearing his name. But has anyone read the book, or think it might be worth reading? For me the unbuttoned button down is irritating enough to make me not want to. How about other posters?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.insidehook.com/article/style/jason-jules-explains-photos-black-ivy/amp

 

[Pimpernel Smith]

I think it will be worth reading and Jules has sound grounding in study of the Beats at university, stuff I've read of his is all good.

 

[Skipper]

I think he's a really cool guy whose interests go far beyond Ivy. For example, he knows a lot about all kinds of music.

 

[Pimpernel Smith]

I think he's a really cool guy whose interests go far beyond Ivy. For example, he knows a lot about all kinds of music.

Correct, well versed in music as well as books.

AFS doesn't seem to dig him on the basis of Jim's hero worship equivalent to that of Kevin Rowland. Well, he was cultivating an Ivy friendship with them at the same time. But I don't think there was anything sexual in it, although Jim was at least, at the fantasy level, looking to swing both ways and God bless him for it:

 

[Barking Pugilist]

JJ always dresses well, there’s a degree of affection there, but then he is a ‘stylist’ so I guess it comes with the role. However any greybeard needs to keep their facial hair really short or they stray into the Santa Claus look and he is doing that quite markedly.

 

[fxh]

I've got the book - I'd put it in the "nice to have but not essential" category.

Most of the pics I've seen around before, as will anyone who has nerded up on the Alt/Hip Ivy as opposed to only the USA Trad/WASP Ivy.


It has, as you'd expect lots of crossover with the Civil Rights actions era, jazz and hip poets.

I did learn one new thing - assuming JJ and Marsh have it right, - the Malcolm X browline glasses were not Shuron Ronsir but Sirmont - American Optical. So there.

 

[Sammy Ambrose]

I've got the book - I'd put it in the "nice to have but not essential" category.

Most of the pics I've seen around before, as will anyone who has nerded up on the Alt/Hip Ivy as opposed to only the USA Trad/WASP Ivy.


It has, as you'd expect lots of crossover with the Civil Rights actions era, jazz and hip poets.

I did learn one new thing - assuming JJ and Marsh have it right, - the Malcolm X browline glasses were not Shuron Ronsir but Sirmont - American Optical. So there.

When I realise that people do actually read books related to menswear, it dawns on me how superficially I must be connected to the field compared to others such as yourself.

 

[fxh]

When I realise that people do actually read books related to menswear, it dawns on me how superficially I must be connected to the field compared to others such as yourself.

A bit of one bookshelf. I like books - many go out of print - so I like to get in and buy them. If I'm thinking or writing I don't like to pull stuff out of my arse, (like many on the net) I'll check and cross check
.

 

[Sammy Ambrose]

Can t see the pics any more. And I seem to have replied on the John Simons Book thread.

 

[Sammy Ambrose]

Can t see the pics any more. And I seem to have replied on the John Simons Book thread.

Here's the post.


Wow. I am impressed just looking at the view. When I have read the titles I'm sure I'll be even more so.

 

[Sammy Ambrose]

Tell us about Dress for Success please.

 

[fxh]

Tell us about Dress for Success please. View attachment 44041

Ha, the original “scientific” American “modern” take. I needed it to include in the bibles.

I couldn’t get onto a copy anywhere for years. Even in libraries. Then one day I searched again and threw up some used copies in USA for bugger all. I think the post cost more than the book.

I’m only really after 2 Holy Grails now::
Nik Cohns, Today There Are No Gentlemen: The Changes In Englishmen's Clothes Since The War
and
History of Men's Fashion by Farid Chenoune.

Luckily I’ve read both , they are here in a reference library but not for borrowing.

I’ll say a bit about Dress for Success when I’m not typing with my thumbs.

 

[Sammy Ambrose]

I’ll say a bit about Dress for Success when I’m not typing with my thumbs

A summary would be good. Looking forward to it.

 

[Sammy Ambrose]

I’m only really after 2 Holy Grails now::
Nik Cohns, Today There Are No Gentlemen

It looks worth searching for.

 

[Pimpernel Smith]

Nik Cohns, Today There Are No Gentlemen: The Changes In Englishmen's Clothes Since The War

But only covers the period to late 60s very early 1970, there's 52 years of updated editions desperately needed.

 

[fxh]

But only covers the period to late 60s very early 1970, there's 52 years of updated editions desperately needed.

Nah - the attraction of "No Gentlemen" is it was written at the time and when there wasn't a lot of informed writing about men's clothes. And it is by Nik - who has written well about music at the time.

As you'd know he was the bloke who invented Saturday Night Fever, loads of music books and articles and a book (that I, naturally, have) that still stands up well and is a classic - Awopbopaloobop Alopbamboom, in 1969.

"No Gentlemen" is important as it was there and pioneering just as George Melly's book, (which you might guess I also have) "Revolt into Style" is important for the same reasons. No one else was doing it.

 

[fxh]

A summary would be good. Looking forward to it.

Dress for Success
If you are into this stuff at all - its a book you must have, without it there would have been no ASK ANDY ABOUT CLOTHES etc. Its in the grand American tradition of "How to Better Yourself" etc books and guidelines - the belief that with enough effort and "right" attitude you invent yourself, in fact in USA culture you have an obligation to, and can be anything you want. (Even though the objective evidence is otherwise.) OTOH its a refreshing antidote to the Brit shackles of the impossibility of class mobility. Not that an American especially of that era would talk about class.

He Molloy - constantly refers to his "research" although he gives no examples of his surveys that I can remember . I suspect its a circular argument - he push polled his survey subjects and got what he wanted. At the same time I think he probably got some survey results that did alter his thinking.

Its all very corporate America worklife - not rock n roll and going out or truckin around the bars - and about fitting in, selling yourself (and your product) and portraying rank (if not class) This is where the IBM uniform came from etc


Reading it you cant help but think yeah - they/we rejected the IBM uniform of white shirt, tie and navy suit, black shoes but recently the Silicon Valley/Apple Tech uniform, of super sloppy casual, is just as rigid if not more so. Mostly more expensive than a nice suit.

For all that - there's a lot of good advice if you aren't already hip to dressing well.

 

[Pimpernel Smith]

"No Gentlemen" is important as it was there and pioneering just as George Melly's book, (which you might guess I also have) "Revolt into Style" is important for the same reasons. No one else was doing it.

Melly was one of life's great Soho eccentrics, JFM once suggested he was his rent boy for a night, but rather than a jazz modernist, he was most definitely a moldy fig. I mean Melly, not Jim. Or do I?

 

[doghouse]

Melly was a wild animal. Barry Miles book has some wicked anecdotes about him

 

[fxh]

Melly was one of life's great Soho eccentrics, JFM once suggested he was his rent boy for a night, but rather than a jazz modernist, he was most definitely a moldy fig. I mean Melly, not Jim. Or do I?

If JFM came in with an umbrella and wet shoes and told me it was raining, I’d want to go outside and hold my hand out to see if it got damp.