Man Of Steel

I am watching the Donner Superman right now.

So hokey. But in a good way too.

I advise re watching this before criticizing MoS.
 
I have seen it. But I'm going to hold off on my review until I see it again. I had a really shitty theater experience. A group of fucking kids talking behind me. I got an ovation when I blew my top and told them all to shut the fuck up.

Some of the effects were very cool in 3D, but I don't think the movie was helped by it in any significant way. IMAX, definitely.
 
Think I'll wait till Netflix for this one

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Really? I rewatched that this weekend too. Kinda hokey.

Reeves does have great personality, but I don't really think the storyline was any more entertaining than MoS...
 
Really? I rewatched that this weekend too. Kinda hokey.

Reeves does have great personality, but I don't really think the storyline was any more entertaining than MoS...

Its not so much the storyline. I've never been THAT much of a fan of Hackman as Lex Luthor. But Reeve is absolutely incredible in the role. The way he wears the suit and glasses, the mannerisms, the acting. Honestly, his performance is incredible.
 
Are you fcking kidding me.

Batman Begins or Iron Man, hands down. Not even a contest.

Fuck that screwball comedy 70s shit

Please mail me some of your meth. Obviously, my shit is not nearly this high quality.
 
Read a few sources today that said MoS2 was green lighted and fasttracked after opening weekend...

... For a 2014 release(!!!!!!)
 
MoS was boring. Seriously. After they left Zod's ship it became a snoozefest.

What I liked about this over other superhero movies: non-heros were actually competent.

What I disliked: quasi-immortals emerging unscathed from Michael Bay ejaculate

Did anyboy else notice Lawrence Fishburne's #menswear ties?
 
Lonestar Zé Ferreira Zé Ferreira jrd III acidboy you guys might find this interesting:

“Does DC Have a Chris Nolan Problem?”

Don’t worry, I’m not getting into another Man of Steel tirade in this week’s “Postal Apocalypse” — now I’m getting into a tirade about whether the entire DC universe is safe in Christopher Nolan’s hands. It’s marginally different! Plus Defiance, future sports, vampire cyborgs, and more!
Nolan No More?
Eric W.:
Post-apocalyptic Postman Rob,
After seeing the abomination of a Superman movie Man of Steel turned out to be, I started thinking about this... Does DC have a Chris Nolan problem?
Obviously, from a financial standpoint they don't, he's behind films that have raised what, a billion or two dollars, but on a deeper level, I'm not so sure.
This man has given us a Batman who turns out to be a compulsive quitter of all things, and now, with the help of Zach Snyder, has given us a muddled, hollow Superman who doesn't seem to care about collateral damage, acts rashly and flat out executes his enemies.
At first I wondered if he didn't understand the characters, but I'm more convinced at this point that he just really doesn't like them, or comics in general. I feel like he has ideas about movies he wants to make, but can only get them green-lit if he wraps them around a known property, so instead of getting a real Batman or Superman story we get "Nolan and Snyder's Poorly Thought Out Sci-fi Schlockfest" hastily retitled "Man of Steel".
I feel like that's the big difference between the Marvel and DC cinematic universes. Say what you will about Joss Whedon, but the man really seems to love comics, and the characters in them, and it shows in the products hitting theaters. Nolan, on the other hands, seems more like he resents the properties he is adapting, and that too is coming across.
What do you think, is it as simple as all that, or am I laying blame in the wrong place here?​
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I Don't Want to See Zack Snyder's Take on Wonder Woman

Now that The Man of Steel has set a new record for June movie openings, Warner Bros. is rushing ahead with plans to create a DC Universe on screen.… Read…
I think you’re exactly right when you say “DC has a Chris Nolan” problem (Zack Snyder is his own issue, which Charlie Jane covers perfectly here). Chris Nolan’s Batman films have made a ton of money, and everyone else who tried to make DC superhero movies has failed, so it makes sense that WB/DC would put him in charge of their DC cinematic universe. But — in my opinion — what they fail to realize is that Nolan’s “vision” only works for Batman. Nolan likes gritty, realistic films, even if they have fantastic elements in them, like The Prestige and Inception. This works well for the non-superpowered Batman, who is the most realistic character of the DC universe, but it's a disaster for everybody else.
Superman? Wonder Woman? Green Lantern? The Flash? All of these characters are fantastic by their very nature, and whether Nolan thinks they should all be dark, tortured, gritty, and “realistic” — or Warner Bros. wants to follow the exact same pattern that made Nolan’s Batman movies hits — I don’t think it works for practically any other DC character, and I think we have the entire ‘90s comics industry as proof.

While Man of Steel has been a box office success, its interpretation of Superman has divided some critics and fans. In hopes of bridging this gap, I… Read…
When you try to do a serious, “What would it really be like if Superman was real?” then yeah, you get a story like Man of Steel where the superheroics take a back seat to people worrying about the first alien on Earth and how human society will react. That’s the Nolan-ized version of Superman, and I didn’t care for it (as you may have noticed). I think it fundamentally missed the character of Superman in two ways: 1) he’s not supposed to be lost and tortured, and 2) while he’s superhuman, the emphasis is always on the human. He’s adopted, but he’s one of us, thanks to the Kents. It’s people like Lex Luthor who are supposed to see him as an alien.
But enough about Man of Steel. I think Nolan’s take is even less compatible with a story about an Amazon coming to the world of men, a cocky pilot joining the space police, or even a guy accidentally getting the power to run at mach speeds. And do we all want to see them as troubled and tortured as Batman and Superman have been? I don’t. Maybe mass audiences will keep paying to see it, but I think they aren’t doing DC or its characters any favors.
What makes DC Comics special is its love of the fantastic, that its characters are larger than life. Marvel has the “realistic” “woe-is-me” heroes we can relate to, DC has the heroes that are practically mythic, who defy our imagination, who astound us. I think Nolan’s vision is the exact opposite of that, and maybe DC/WB will make bank, but they’re bringing their heroes down when they should be letting them soar.
 
This is good as well:

Charlie Jane Anders 6/18/13 12:23pm 50,142 639
I Don't Want to See Zack Snyder's Take on Wonder Woman

Now that The Man of Steel has set a new record for June movie openings, Warner Bros. is rushing ahead with plans to create a DC Universe on screen. Which means one thing: we'll finally get a big-screen version of Wonder Woman, and she'll probably be created by Sucker Punch director Zack Snyder. That's a terrible idea.
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Nobody knows exactly how the DC Universe will coalesce on the big screen over the next few movies — probably not even Warner Bros., at this point — but it seems likely that the next few films will try and assemble the pieces of a cinematic Justice League. (Our opinion on how to do that hasn't changed: First, make a Superman/Batman film, then make a Trinity movie, teaming Supes and Bats with Wonder Woman. Then do Justice League.)
But whatever happens, it seems likely that the first appearance of Wonder Woman on screen will be in someone else's movie, or in a team-up movie. And given his success with Man of Steel, Snyder seems likely to be helming whatever movie that is. And I just don't think Snyder can make Wonder Woman the compelling hero she needs to be.
Edited to add: Some people in comments are questioning the assumption above that we won't get a solo Wonder Woman movie any time soon. I would love it if we got a Wonder Woman movie in the next few years — but it seems more likely that Warner Bros. will follow their oft-stated plans to get to a Justice League film first, and then possibly spin off solo films featuring Wonder Woman and the Flash. So the first place we see Wonder Woman is likely to be in the Justice League movie — and Zack Snyder has strongly hinted that he's interested in directing that. With that out of the way...
Who is Wonder Woman?

In a lot of ways, Wonder Woman has the same problem as Superman. She's a product of a much simpler time in comics storytelling, with some internal contradictions that are harder to ignore now.
In the case of Superman, he's an alien visitor to our planet, with near-godlike powers and a mission to save and inspire humans. His presence ought to freak us out, and maybe in real life everyone would agree with Lex Luthor that he's a scary alien. The Man of Steel spends a lot of its running time grappling with this conundrum, before handwaving it away.
In the case of Wonder Woman, it's even worse, though — she's an Amazon warrior, trained to kill. But she's been sent to the outside world, where men are still in charge, to teach us about love and peace. She ought to have a lot more problems adjusting to a world of male authority figures, and people might be kind of terrified of a mythological warrior woman on the rampage.
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The Weird History of Wonder Woman in TV, Movies and Beyond

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Lots of people have tried to translate Wonder Woman to live-action, and the only time it's worked was with Lynda Carter's sublimely campy 1970s version. Even Joss Whedon's Angelina Jolie-inspired version doesn't sound like it would have been that great.
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There have been two scrapped TV pilots — David E. Kelley's revoltingly convoluted version, and Amazon, the Allen Heinberg pilot where she eats ice cream and makes orgasmic noises. People seem to have a hard time getting their heads around this character, and boiling her down to a simple idea — Heinberg's version was a lot closer to the classic character, in spite of the weird "fish out of water" comedy elements.
There are basically two ways to go with Wonder Woman:
1) You can embrace the fact that she's an Amazon and tell mythological stories about Greek Gods and monsters. This is the approach that Brian Azzarello has mostly taken in her solo comic since the New 52 continuity started up, and it's been well-received and has boosted the character's popularity. The trouble is, this approach probably doesn't work as well in a shared-universe context where she's sharing the screen with Batman and Superman — which is why Azzarello's Wonder Woman seems so different from the version appearing concurrently in the Justice League comic.
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2) You can handwave the "Amazon" thing away and go with "generic female badass whose origin is told in one scene." This is probably what'll happen, realistically, if Wonder Woman is introduced in a team-up film or as a supporting character in someone else's film. We'll be told she's an Amazon from an island of women warriors, or we'll glimpse it in a flashback, but there won't be time to dwell on what this means. Or we'll fall back on the idea that Wonder Woman's mission is to spread love and truth, making her the "nice" character — or the superego, in contrast to Batman's id and Superman's ego.
(Or she'll just become Superman's love interest on screen. Which, luckily, they already have Lois Lane for that.)
The big problem, though, is what motivates Wonder Woman? Why does she want to leave her perfect island in the first place, and what makes her want to spend her time fighting Darkseid or other villains? Why does she want to hang out with Superman and Batman? What are her goals, and how does this superhero stuff help her reach them? I never really liked her becoming an "ambassador" who gives speeches and writes self-help books, because I never understood why a trained warrior was doing that.
As hard as it is to give Wonder Woman an origin that makes sense to modern readers, it's even harder to show her as part of a shared universe, without turning her into a one-dimensional character who's either "a warrior woman," or "sweetness and light."
The Zack Snyder Problem

And that's why Zack Snyder taking on Wonder Woman — or, more broadly, anyone recreating Wonder Woman in the same style as Man of Steel — is potentially a nightmare.
After watching 300, Watchmen, Sucker Punch and Man of Steel, there's plenty that I admire about Snyder's film-making. He's great at creating arresting visuals, and he has a deep appreciation for the grammar of comic-book storytelling, creating splash pages on the screen.
But he has a problem with capturing real emotions, as opposed to surfaces, something the cold and depthless Man of Steel confirms. And he especially has a problem with female characters, because his love for pulp imagery leads him to explore women as fetish objects. It almost doesn't matter if, as some have discussed, Snyder is trying to turn this fetishization on its head or show how it's harmful — it still tends to dominate.
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Take Watchmen — arguably the reason why Snyder's film fails to come together as a story isn't because he's lacking the graphic novel's ending, and he doesn't have anything strong enough to replace it. The real problem comes earlier: the crux of the story, in many ways, is the moment when Laurie Juspeczyk realizes the Comedian is her father. Which in turn convinces Dr. Manhattan to return to Earth from Mars.
This moment should be powerful and emotional, and tie together all of the complicated plot threads and themes about these characters and their histories that we've spent so much time learning about. Instead, in Snyder's film, it doesn't really work because we don't care that much about Laurie, and she doesn't have enough agency as a character.
Over in the Journal of Interdisciplinary Comics Studies, there's a pretty great explanation of how the movie version of Laurie is a weaker character than the graphic novel version, in large part due to the drive to fetishize her instead of understanding her. A couple of choice quotes:
Snyder uses frequent cuts and tracking shots during the sex scene to highlight and fetishize Laurie's body, destabilizing her erotic power, which should be present in the scene, and instead favoring empty titillation. Laurie's thigh-high boots are given extensive coverage by the camera as it tracks up her leg, all but conferring more attention on her costume than on her actual body. She does not wield the erotic power; only her costume wields it...
Although both [version] show how Laurie learns the truth about her father, the Comedian, while with Jon on Mars, Jon becomes the expository mouthpiece in the film, telling her about the familial connections rather than letting her come to them via epiphany, as Moore and Gibbons construct the scene.​
In Man of Steel, meanwhile, Lois Lane actually comes off pretty well in the first hour when she's hunting Superman — it's only after she meets up with Supes that she starts to lose a lot of her agency and becomes coded as his sidekick/love interest. Even then, she gets to help move the plot forward and plays a key role in the resolution.
On the other hand, though, Man of Steel's other major female character is Faora, who's very much a one-note "sexy badass" character whose main affect is smirking and talking smack. She's basically Zod's right-hand henchwoman, but most of her screentime is spent dwelling on the unveiling of her face, over and over, as her cool helmet turns transparent to reveal her weirdly seductive smile.
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And then there's Sucker Punch. After years of exploitation films, I have no problem with watching women in schoolgirl outfits fight dragons and zombies. But Sucker Punch's asylum-dwellers/strippers/superheroes are — like Laurie in Watchmen and Clark in Man of Steel — all surface. There's no way to root for them, and it's hard to care what happens to them beyond feeling a vague sense of excitement that monsters are being fought. And the movie's structure turns everything into a metaphor for a metaphor for a metaphor, increasing our sense of distance from the actual narrative, which is largely about victimization. (Yes, I know one of them gets away.)
For what it's worth, my personal objection to Sucker Punch was never political — it's more that Sucker Punch is a boring film, because it's slow and I don't care about any of the characters.
Snyder is clearly keeping a lot of his stylistic tics in check for Man of Steel, but now that he's got a huge success under his belt, I worry that he's going to take that as license to go nuts the next time around. Or the time after that.
In any case, Wonder Woman is a character who has a complicated problem — she's a Golden Age character whose origins barely make sense today, and it's hard to identify with her motivations for traveling amongst us and fighting our battles for us.
And there's a simple solution: make her a character that we naturally root for. Show her caring about stuff, so we care about her. Show us how she struggles to do the right thing, and why. Give her a heart and soul, that audiences can latch on to. Unfortunately, these are exactly the things Zack Snyder seems to have had the hardest time doing.
Given how important Wonder Woman is, I don't think we're going to see Zack Snyder turning her into a stripper. He's going to be under a lot of pressure to make her into someone who can sell action figures. But I also don't think he's going to be able to give her what she really needs: a new lease on life.
 

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