As Venezuela Burns

Lord Buckley

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The oil company is paying off critical suppliers at the moment, clearly the oil refineries are about to go off line imminently. That means several months before they get them back online, maybe a lot more in Venezuela. So they're desperately attempting to keep them going.
 

Leitmotif

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The oil company is paying off critical suppliers at the moment, clearly the oil refineries are about to go off line imminently. That means several months before they get them back online, maybe a lot more in Venezuela. So they're desperately attempting to keep them going.
They are attempting to keep them going with personnel that is barely qualified. Many of my friends parents are in charge of the keystone pipeline, also some of are managers in Colombia, Saudi Arabia, Papua Nueva Guinea or in my case Gazzprom/Rosfnet in the motherland. The personnel that was fully qualified is no longer there and the one that stayed if it has the qualifications its more about apeasing what the government says and does. The whole infrastructure is outdated.
 

Leitmotif

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I was there before Chavez. In the Gran Sabana up mount Roraima and Kukenan tepuis, into Yanomami territory. Truly a wilderness of outstanding beauty and ecotourism potential.
I used to live a couple of hours away from those areas, majestic and imponent like nothing I have ever seen. Im from the island of Margarita, but mostly grew up in the andean region. It is a fantastic country with fantastic people and smart as few. Back in the 50s we were second on gold reserves after the US. 6 globally. Second most stable currency after the us and 9th in the world. Highest producer of oil. What can be done with the right leadership.
 

Leitmotif

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The oil company is paying off critical suppliers at the moment, clearly the oil refineries are about to go off line imminently. That means several months before they get them back online, maybe a lot more in Venezuela. So they're desperately attempting to keep them going.
This is the hilarious part. People that got fired are being contracted for salaries several times what they used to make, they are like the US and Europe when it comes to foreign policy, narrow and short sighted.
 

Monkeyface

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I used to live a couple of hours away from those areas, majestic and imponent like nothing I have ever seen. Im from the island of Margarita, but mostly grew up in the andean region. It is a fantastic country with fantastic people and smart as few. Back in the 50s we were second on gold reserves after the US. 6 globally. Second most stable currency after the us and 9th in the world. Highest producer of oil. What can be done with the right leadership.
Very sad what's happened. It should serve as a warning for the world. Don't elect populists, or you'll end up like Venezuela.
 

Lord Buckley

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They are attempting to keep them going with personnel that is barely qualified. Many of my friends parents are in charge of the keystone pipeline, also some of are managers in Colombia, Saudi Arabia, Papua Nueva Guinea or in my case Gazzprom/Rosfnet in the motherland. The personnel that was fully qualified is no longer there and the one that stayed if it has the qualifications its more about apeasing what the government says and does. The whole infrastructure is outdated.
They have to keep them going at any costs, once the refineries are completely shut down its a nightmare to get back on line, a lot of equipment needs replacing and you need to do it all in sequence. Several months at least. That may well be the breaking point for the current Venezuela.

I used to live a couple of hours away from those areas, majestic and imponent like nothing I have ever seen. Im from the island of Margarita, but mostly grew up in the andean region. It is a fantastic country with fantastic people and smart as few. Back in the 50s we were second on gold reserves after the US. 6 globally. Second most stable currency after the us and 9th in the world. Highest producer of oil. What can be done with the right leadership.
Truly a paradise, but as my colleagues use to say in Brazil, when God created such places and the angels commented on how wonderful there are, he exclaimed "Yes, but wait to see who I will put there!"

If it's any consolation, the UK Labour Party were promoting Chavez's Venezuela as viable alternative and ideal socialist economy and success story until it all started going pear shaped. They've since deleted all the Twitter comments, but if Corbyn's mob got in, what your family has experienced, would be repeated in the UK.

This is the hilarious part. People that got fired are being contracted for salaries several times what they used to make, they are like the US and Europe when it comes to foreign policy, narrow and short sighted.
Same happened to Eskom employees in South Africa who were white, they got made redundant then returned on inflated contractor salaries when the new management realised they needed their expertise.
 

OfficePants

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Doubt it. Different type of populism, to me it looks a lot more socialist/communist trying to nationalize everything.

If anything, don't elect dictators, which in the end is always what he was.

The world is full of piece of shit countries and failed states, so consolidating your border is the smart move. Open back up once the world catches up.
 

Leitmotif

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Populism, ignorance, and cult of leader. Something akin to North Korea and the USSR. Among many other countries.
 

Lord Buckley

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Populism just means you support the concerns of the common man. Pretty benign stuff.
And there in lies the horror to the liberal lying elite: from Merkel to Trudeau we see the love and rapture of the more energetic and colourful exotic which to them is the ideal. Any Fanfare to The Common Man to them is symbol of white privilege of the working/middle class male which must be replaced with a cloth cap and pauperised existence who will nod his head at his betters in the hope he gets some scraps. Open borders is euphemism for a globalised third world.
 

Monkeyface

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And there in lies the horror to the liberal lying elite: from Merkel to Trudeau we see the love and rapture of the more energetic and colourful exotic which to them is the ideal. Any Fanfare to The Common Man to them is symbol of white privilege of the working/middle class male which must be replaced with a cloth cap and pauperised existence who will nod his head at his betters in the hope he gets some scraps. Open borders is euphemism for a globalised third world.
And now in plain, common if you will, English?
 

Monkeyface

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From my perspective, but I am at least two or three drinks ahead of you, it makes sense and the connection is clear.
You know it is possible to be in favour of moderating immigration without being a populist, right? Those two things are not mutually exclusive.
 

Leitmotif

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You know it is possible to be in favour of moderating immigration without being a populist, right? Those two things are not mutually exclusive.
That is how my "ancestors" immigrated to Venezuela. Selective immigration. They needed farmers in the andean region and so they moved over there.
 

OfficePants

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I see why you are confused.
Not confused at all. You're injecting all kinds of meaning into a word that's simply defined as supporting the concerns of the common man.

By adding all kinds of political doctrine, and all this implied danger is why folks like you are so crazed over Trump.

And frankly, name me a leader that doesn't invoke populism. I mean Obamer based his whole campaign on "hope", hope for who exactly? I'm going to take a wild guess that it's the common man.
 

Monkeyface

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Not confused at all. You're injecting all kinds of meaning into a word that's simply defined as supporting the concerns of the common man.

By adding all kinds of political doctrine, and all this implied danger is why folks like you are so crazed over Trump.

And frankly, name me a leader that doesn't invoke populism. I mean Obamer based his whole campaign on "hope", hope for who exactly? I'm going to take a wild guess that it's the common man.
You're simplifying a complex issue (which happens to be a populist's favourite pastime).

Read this:

https://www.bridgewater.com/resources/bwam032217.pdf

And this:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.vo...6/donald-trump-bernie-sanders-europe-populism
 

doghouse

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Not confused at all. You're injecting all kinds of meaning into a word that's simply defined as supporting the concerns of the common man.

By adding all kinds of political doctrine, and all this implied danger is why folks like you are so crazed over Trump.

And frankly, name me a leader that doesn't invoke populism. I mean Obamer based his whole campaign on "hope", hope for who exactly? I'm going to take a wild guess that it's the common man.
No, it's the quite the opposite, you are stripping meaning from a word that is very specific so you can say "oh it's no big thing". It is a political doctrine by definition, one which is derived from "popular", because it's the political expression of whatever is popular at the moment and thus is subject to wild swings, self defeating actions and extreme shortsightedness. The very things the U.S. system is designed to combat. Populism is extremely stupid and dangerous. It also has literally nothing to do with the common man beyond he is the one most susceptible to it.

Of course Obama did it, and it's another reason the idiots who voted for him are dumb. There is no better way to broadcast ones idiocy than by justifying a Trump vote by saying you voted Obama twice. Congrats on being a fucking moron three times in a row.

This is a clearly defined issue, and you are more than welcome to argue against it, but you are arguing against established fact whether you want to agree or not.
 

Monkeyface

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doghouse doghouse OfficePants OfficePants wouldnt that mean that in one way or the other any government is populist? At the end they win because they are popular and they gotta be popular with the common folk.
No, now you're giving in to the Russian "there is no truth or fact" propaganda. Of course a lot of governments have certain populist elements, especially these days and also back in the 1930s, but it doesn't mean every government is equally "bad" or populist.
 

Leitmotif

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No, now you're giving in to the Russian "there is no truth or fact" propaganda. Of course a lot of governments have certain populist elements, especially these days and also back in the 1930s, but it doesn't mean every government is equally "bad" or populist.
Well you gotta be popular or offer something to get those votes, hence why I said that. They have all got there because they offered something that they deem necesary such as hope.

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