Does Buying Used Make You Cheap?

Well perhaps I'm not better dressed than rambo.

Or thruth..

But other than that
 
It's circumstantial. Like with tool, I had a really beat up ass used old Dewalt compressor I paid $50 for. It's because I wasn't going to use it very often, and it's not a tool based on the need for precision. It died on me after about 4 years, and I felt it was good value.

My table saw was new, just because contractors beat them up and I want a good cut.

With cars, almost always used. I wouldn't want a brand new house, unless I custom built it, because they're now built like shit.

With clothes, I do both. A used dress shirt in great condition is gold.

In general, I am happy to accept very very used if the circumstances warrant it.
 
It all depends. Have never owned a new house. Always looked for a solid old one in a good location then renovated. Custom built new does not guarantee problem-free. Perfect example. Owned a home built in 1913. Always worried about a 3rd floor sunroom bump out that sagged. Had people look at it and quite a fortune to stabilize it.

One day, an old gent was walking by when I was out in the yard. Got to talking. He grew up in the house. The sunroom was sagging 60 years ago and had not worsened. Big deal.

I've had new vehicles that were as shitty as some used ones I've bought. I have tools that my old man used as a mechanic in the 40's. Bought expensive new shit that couldn't compare. Other used things were bulletproof.

Used clothes can work really well, again it depends.

Finding good used things takes time and effort that's all
 
gufasd said:
Used goods can have many different issues such as precision or wear. Using used shoes can lead to foot and back issues - as advised by many podiatrists. Buying a used house is a crapshoot for issues, and not getting it custom built or building it yourself is for rubes. Most people wouldn't buy custom made clothing that was made for someone else, why do it with something that costs orders of magnitudes more? Why would you not want a new car? Driving style can very easily cause engine or transmission issues with very little use, that wont be covered under warranty and be super expensive.

What negative is there to new goods other than cost? If you cannot afford to buy a good or service new chances are you cannot afford it, for examples see the US housing market circa 2008. A debt driven society causes for people to buy used or lease products, both horrid choices for different reasons.
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It is and will always be about cost. Secondarily, it's about fighting planned obsolescence, recycling things that are still useful and appreciating things that are designed to last.

I wouldn't want most new things because of price.

Regarding a new house, you might take on some risk with an older house, but with a new one there is no risk because it's almost certainly built like shit.
 
OfficePants said:
It is and will always be about cost. Secondarily, it's about fighting planned obsolescence, recycling things that are still useful and appreciating things that are designed to last.

I wouldn't want most new things because of price.

Regarding a new house, you might take on some risk with an older house, but with a new one there is no risk because it's almost certainly built like shit.
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Lol. You can say that again. I don't know what per square foot cost is for a house in America but here it is like $350 a square for run of the mill shit. It is a crime. Both the price and the quality of the build
 
The average person is the worst person tone the general contractor in their own house.

Most people do not know enough to judge quality. Besides, unless your are on the site all the time instead of at work, you don't see everything.

This doesn't mean that every single house will be shit. But solid trades people top to bottom are hard to find

Have you built a house or done a major addition?
 
gufasd said:
I find with the time and effort that it takes to find good used things I can make enough money to buy the good new things and have a bunch left over. Time is not cheap in the least. It's the most limited resource we have.

How is a house you design and manage the construction of shit? Are you not at all able to quality check work being done? Do you have no background in engineering/architecture/construction?
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In 5 minutes I can usually search craigslist and send a bunch of emails. The time it takes me to find the new product I want is just as time consuming, if not more because I'm spending more.

For example, I have been looking for a new compressor. I have spent a good 2 hours researching it because I want one that's a good fit. I know the market pretty well now, and I can search craigslist and see if one of the top 2 or 3 of my choices are for sale used. In some instances they are. Double win.

Any well considered purchase takes time and effort. Just because its new doesn't make it fast and convenient.
 
gufasd said:
Why not just buy another one of what you had before?
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Because the marketing geniuses of our world are always creating new models of their products and by the time you go to replace it, it doesn't resemble the previous one. Any nowadays, you can buy the same product the next year and instead of Germany, it's now made in Mexico. That kind of shit. There is not real continuity in most products anymore.

Lastly, I buy shit that lasts, so I buy once, and buy carefully, and hope to never buy it again.
 
http://www.dressedwell.net/forum/th...ing-style-fashion-retail-etc.1506/#post-72541
Check the thread above for some books that document the throwaway culture of much current clothing. Its a small consolation is that the worst offender is womens clothing where a top/t- shirt will only last about 10 washes but is so cheap as to be throwaway. Certainly not alterable to size or fashion like it used to be. Much of this clothing goes to landfill.

One reason to buy used clothes is to encourage high quality production that lasts. Suits, shirts, shoes and sport jackets. There many reasons why clothing is recycled/sold/swapped/given away. Men put on weight, take off weight, change tastes, change jobs where suits aren't required, or simply buy stuff the wrong size.

With cars I've never purchased a new car in my life - its such a waste of money . The amount of depreciation the first week you drive a new car can be up to 15% -30%. (Not to mention most people borrow to buy and often end up with a car that after 6 months is worth less than the debt owing). Plus I usually search for a car that isn't currently "sexy" and the price will be even less after say 20,000ks - 30,000ks on the clock. I also hate the new car smell.

Its not that I haven't had and driven new cars, I have driven many, as part of a fleet and for private use. I've also run fleets of up to 50 cars so I have an insight into how the car trade works. (One insight is that its only the average punter who pays sticker price - no fleet does and most sales are to fleets)

Never purchased a new house and probably never will - I've got a background in building, amongst other things, so it makes things a bit easier, and I can asses a house in a few minutes. Most, not all new houses are not well built and more importantly not amenable to simple fixing up when things do go wrong. It not necessarily bad trade skills but the systems and materials used. There is also some bad trade skills and plain shonks.

Most of my women have been second hand too. No complaints about their performance.
 
fxh said:
http://www.dressedwell.net/forum/th...ing-style-fashion-retail-etc.1506/#post-72541
Check the thread above for some books that document the throwaway culture of much current clothing. Its a small consolation is that the worst offender is womens clothing where a top/t- shirt will only last about 10 washes but is so cheap as to be throwaway. Certainly not alterable to size or fashion like it used to be. Much of this clothing goes to landfill.

One reason to buy used clothes is to encourage high quality production that lasts. Suits, shirts, shoes and sport jackets. There many reasons why clothing is recycled/sold/swapped/given away. Men put on weight, take off weight, change tastes, change jobs where suits aren't required, or simply buy stuff the wrong size.

With cars I've never purchased a new car in my life - its such a waste of money . The amount of depreciation the first week you drive a new car can be up to 15% -30%. (Not to mention most people borrow to buy and often end up with a car that after 6 months is worth less than the debt owing). Plus I usually search for a car that isn't currently "sexy" and the price will be even less after say 20,000ks - 30,000ks on the clock. I also hate the new car smell.

Its not that I haven't had and driven new cars, I have driven many, as part of a fleet and for private use. I've also run fleets of up to 50 cars so I have an insight into how the car trade works. (One insight is that its only the average punter who pays sticker price - no fleet does and most sales are to fleets)

Never purchased a new house and probably never will - I've got a background in building, amongst other things, so it makes things a bit easier, and I can asses a house in a few minutes. Most, not all new houses are not well built and more importantly not amenable to simple fixing up when things do go wrong. It not necessarily bad trade skills but the systems and materials used. There is also some bad trade skills and plain shonks.

Most of my women have been second hand too. No complaints about their performance.
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Women's clothing rivals the light bulb with planned obsolescence.

What's a shonk? Damn good word, whatever it is.
 
I've read more than halfway through this Cheap Fashion or whatever book by Cline, and she explains, as I'd already figured out, how massively better stuff from before about 1990 was. Hefty fabrics, durable construction, full details and no skimping. Without going full-on luxury bespoke, and then dogging to get the rare fabrics and tedious details, it just cannot be replicated. She also points out the sad truth that available good vintage.used stuff is in increasingly short supply.
In some other thread, I mentioned wearing my $8 Goodwill tweed coat to my custom tailor's shop. He has very good access to fabrics but, even with his low prices, were he able to get such heavy fabrics, it would be a battle to get him to do a totally soft shoulder and a quarter lining and he'd forget a coin pocket and insist on giving me functional cuffs and on and on...
 
Russell Street said:
I've read more than halfway through this Cheap Fashion or whatever book by Cline, and she explains, as I'd already figured out, how massively better stuff from before about 1990 was. Hefty fabrics, durable construction, full details and no skimping. Without going full-on luxury bespoke, and then dogging to get the rare fabrics and tedious details, it just cannot be replicated. She also points out the sad truth that available good vintage.used stuff is in increasingly short supply.
In some other thread, I mentioned wearing my $8 Goodwill tweed coat to my custom tailor's shop. He has very good access to fabrics but, even with his low prices, were he able to get such heavy fabrics, it would be a battle to get him to do a totally soft shoulder and a quarter lining and he'd forget a coin pocket and insist on giving me functional cuffs and on and on...
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Russell,

Quality is getting increasingly expensive, and within that there are 2 types of people that spend on it: ultra rich, and everyone else. Ultra rich could care less about price, they are generally the Ferrari crowd that can't drive it fast if losing a testicle depended on it. The other crowd appreciates craftsmanship, but increasingly finds it harder to afford it. It's a vicious cycle, because as you continue to make it more expensive the fewer of type 2's you get. And the result is these gross and pathetic black Friday displays, which in reality are just a shaming of the poor, but a testament to the success of planned obsolescence. You can get that PS3 or 4 or whatever it is now, but you're child, the one that you don't spend enough time with, will tire of that console well before it ever becomes obsolete. You are not only an indentured servant of your child, but Sony, EA Sports, and Best Buy. Like George Carlin said, our owners want things just like they are. It's a club, and you're not in it.

The best way to fight this is to buy used.
 
From ASIC website:
Thruth said:
It is a good word. Came across this when looking it up
http://ask.metafilter.com/96613/Is-shonk-antisemitic Is "shonk" antisemitic? July 15, 2008
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I have to say I had no idea. And I'm just jewish enough, and circumcised, by background to be rounded up by the national socialists back then.
Its a very very common word here in Australia. The Australian Securities and Investments Commission (ASIC) ( a government sponsored body) uses it frequently on its website - so do politicians and others.

Example from ASIC website:
Before you invest you should check to see if the investment company is operating legally. Proper checks on an investment company or product can mean the difference between losing your money to a shonky dealer and getting a great deal from a legitimate business.
 
fxh said:
From ASIC website: I have to say I had no idea. And I'm just jewish enough, and circumcised, by background to be rounded up by the national socialists back then.
Its a very very common word here in Australia. The Australian Securities and Investments Commission (ASIC) ( a government sponsored body) uses it frequently on its website - so do politicians and others.

Example from ASIC website:
Before you invest you should check to see if the investment company is operating legally. Proper checks on an investment company or product can mean the difference between losing your money to a shonky dealer and getting a great deal from a legitimate business.
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Seems the anti-Semitic connotation is old and out of favour.

Also interesting when you read all the way down to the comments there is a bit on how Paki is not a derogatory term in Australia? Just a contraction like Aussie?
 
Thruth said:
The average person is the worst person tone the general contractor in their own house.

Most people do not know enough to judge quality. Besides, unless your are on the site all the time instead of at work, you don't see everything.

This doesn't mean that every single house will be shit. But solid trades people top to bottom are hard to find

Have you built a house or done a major addition?
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This is thruth. We bought new construction once at Mrs. Doom's behest and it was ghastly. We inspected the house three times a week and pestered the GC with every issue. Even then they botched the ductwork and a few other issues.

When more new houses came to our block we had a chuckle strolling through the works-in-progress; the framers had to have been blindfolded when they were using the nail guns, they missed so often.
 
Another point is that when the rich get brought in, Veblen goods are created, and price is driven up for no good reason.
Also, there are plenty of things that I buy used, or at least gray market, because I despise the manufacturer or retailer and wish to deprive them of their cut.

Last week I heard radio callers trying to justify the inanity of retailers open on Thanksgiving Day, saying that the store workers get more money and can buy (shit) for their kids. Because that's better than actually spending time with them and the family for a holiday.
 
Even expensive clothes these days don't have basics like a built in seam allowance for letting out, those secret little openings inside the sleeve lining sewn to enable easy access to seams, split waist bands on mens trousers, etc etc . I was shocked a while back just chatting after work to 2 women I worked with about clothes, they were bemoaning the fact that their skirts were a bit too short for their age and preferences. (I like being interested in clothes - interested and interesting women always chat - I did tell them their legs looked fine!) .They both had shopped at this small high quality local chain here in Melbourne. I didn't ask but from knowledge of the place they might have paid $500 for their skirts - not dresses.

Any way - in all innocence- I said:
"FFS why don't you just let the hems down"

They laughed and showed me their hems
No allowance at all for letting down - the most minimum of turned up material - not even a real hem.

Sad. And expensive.

Not all new is bad.
I have around half a dozen old hand saws of my fathers. Good quality. I also have his saw sharpening kit. I was bemoaning having to sharpen a few to a mate - he told me I was an idiot - for $15 I could buy a new tungsten toothed handsaw. I then went and got one. Bloody amazing. Cuts better then even a newly sharpened old saw. And will last at least a few years before needing to be replaced. Cheaper than sharpening an old saw. And a better saw as well.
 
Thruth said:
The average person is the worst person tone the general contractor in their own house.
Most people do not know enough to judge quality. Besides, unless your are on the site all the time instead of at work, you don't see everything.
This doesn't mean that every single house will be shit. But solid trades people top to bottom are hard to find
Have you built a house or done a major addition?
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haha yeah - Wheres old Doggie??

The amazing shit I've seen by people "project managing" their house build or renos. Its a laugh.
You get two extremes - no clue being walked allover by tradies and then the worst kind who is a middle class professional with no background, plus superior attitude, taking time off work, to micro manage everything - never having driven a nail, worked in the rain or even cleaned their own fucking house. My advice to tradies - get a standard variation form, take a tablet or laptop on site, document every single bloody variation by the 15 mins labour and plus materials, and email it in each night. Alongside assessments of the damage to structure and knockon effects to the rest of the build. And extensions to time lines.

To quote Bob Dylan - "You don't need a GANTT chart to know which way the project is slipping"
 
Thruth said:
Seems the anti-Semitic connotation is old and out of favour.
Also interesting when you read all the way down to the comments there is a bit on how Paki is not a derogatory term in Australia? Just a contraction like Aussie?
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Yes - I'd never heard of the anti semetic origins and I'm a word obsessive.
Yes Paki here isn't a term of abuse at all - never. The Pakis would be an affectionate term if used in cricket. Widely used. Its a very offensive use in UK. In UK they call people from the Indian sub continent Asians. Here were call Asians Asians. From China, Taiwan, Vietnam etc. We are actually a very multicultural society. Almost 28% of the Australian workforce was born outside of Australia and around 40% has at least one parent born outside of Australia.

But here the term "The Pakis" - would almost always be assumed to refer to the cricket team or a soccer team or a trade delegation. Just as Amercians would be called The Yanks or the Septics. English = The Poms or Pommies. New Zealanders = The Kiwis - or more likely The Defendants (small oz /NZ joke), Dutch = Cloggies, and so on. Always use a diminutive conraction or add a Y or IE when possible - R M Williams boots would be/are referred to as "The RMs". Doghouse =doggie, - Thruth = thruthy.....
 
gufasd said:
I'm confused at how people feel that quality is dropping in clothing.
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Head to a thrift store and look for an old tweed coat. Chances are it will be midmarket RTW from it's time, and better than you can get retail today without going pretty high end.
The possibility for absolutely superlative clothing exists today, but it is at an even greater cost than ever and you are into the luxury realm to approach what was available in respectable department stores back in the cold war. The race to the bottom for cheap chic is what is being done today. The realm of premium goods exists but is at very premium prices for a very small market. The economies of scale are not there.
Rambo said:
I'd never heard this word before:
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Really? Florsheim introduced a shoe a few years back literally named Veblen, and people wondered loud if the name was a joke.
http://jackbaruth.com/?p=1859
 
Veblen is overrated. A useful insight for his times but conspicuous consumption is flawed as a single explanation.
 
I don't want to make him feel he is important or that his contribution is valued.
 
Thruth said:
Seems the anti-Semitic connotation is old and out of favour.

Also interesting when you read all the way down to the comments there is a bit on how Paki is not a derogatory term in Australia? Just a contraction like Aussie?
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Yeah. There is enough attention on this sorta thing. Shonk rolls off the tongue well, and I'm not in Kangaroo-land, so it's pretty cool to run with it?
 
Supposedly is a derivation from Yiddish - isn't everything? - anyway certainly hasn't got any widespread anti semitic* connotation here. Maybe in NYC where theres still a lot of Yiddish spoken I'd be cautious. But its widely used here even in official reports.

If you want to go all Orstralian with yer insults and slang words just let us know - China. Mind you no one will get it.

*(Melbourne is home to the largest per capita number of Holocaust survivors outside the state of Israel - so we do know a bit of history)
 
Damn, I wish I had this Overdressed book at hand, because the author does do several inflation-adjusted price comparisons of what average clothing used to cost. I want to say one was along the lines of $125 shirts. Needless to say, average people are not paying this today. Therefore, if you find some midlevel or better shirt, lightly used, for under $30, you are likely getting a lightly used shirt equivalent to what one would have to pay a bare minimum of $125 for new today, and really more like $180 to $250 (I think) to get a worthwhile full custom deal with premium fabrics and a real fitting and oops, you need to buy three shirts...
So I'd say the used clothing shopper can't be called cheap in most cases, given the incredible value they can get. On the other hand, I was in a thrift shop today and a friend was trying on some JC Penney cotton sweater and we debated whether $8 was a good price or not. I argued against. Ultimately it's all subjective and personal, obviously.
 
gufasd said:
I agree the potential is quite high with thrifting and used clothing. I just find it doesn't cost much more to get good deals on new clothing that fits better. Such as deals on classifieds.
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I don't think so anymore. Everyone and their brother thrifts now. And thrift stores have gotten smart. Big brands go to ebay or are priced up like all hell.
 
fxh said:
haha yeah - Wheres old Doggie??
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'sup?


Conveniently for the discussion, I spent my weekend flooring. Bamboo ftw.

1958031_10205681502702363_7707892760065278745_n.webp
 
OfficePants said:
I don't think so anymore. Everyone and their brother thrifts now. And thrift stores have gotten smart. Big brands go to ebay or are priced up like all hell.
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Well, yeah it is more of a trad's paradise. Desirable supply is diminishing, but it's always a crapshoot. You pay with your time. However, the cognoscenti are generally revering different item that the masses, the sorters.
 
Russell Street said:
Well, yeah it is more of a trad's paradise. Desirable supply is diminishing, but it's always a crapshoot. You pay with your time. However, the cognoscenti are generally revering different item that the masses, the sorters.
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I don't really thrift anymore. Latinos are looking for different stuff, but white dudes are looking for the same stuff I am. The only differentiator is I know more edge brands.

Not worth the effort anymore.
 
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