Greece and The Coming (possible) Grexit From The EuroZone

LelandJ said:
:ahahahaha:
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If this cock up doesn't prove to you there is democracy, then you are a lost cause. The corporate overloads would never risk their money like this. They may have got the bonds back but they are in line to lose huge revenue streams.
 
doghouse said:
Who gave them the money and why is completely irrelevant. They took it, full stop. The onus became theirs at that moment. Then they doubled down with bad voting. When you go back again for more money, you have to do whatever the people giving the money say, period.
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There's a lot of sensible info in this post but this is completely ridiculous. Who gave them the money and why is extremely relevant. If it was a bank or an investor in the form of bonds, then its completely legitimate for these people to lose their money. Investing is a calculated gamble. Sometimes you win, other times you lose. This isn't the mob for fucks sake.

Furthermore, either the IMF or ECB has written off debts in the past. Most recently with Ukraine.
doghouse said:
Grinding austerity is better than the humanitarian catastrophe that would follow an exit.
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I disagree with this but its more on a personal level than a logical one. One of the reasons I post those Ian Welch articles you hate so much is that he does a good job of relating the sort of "end of the line" ethos that I generally agree with. I'd personally rather die than live in abject, unending misery. I understand most wouldn't.
 
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i think we all agree that a real sustainable solution for all parties would require some form of debt relief and that varoufakis is a cocky dickhead who totally fucked up the negotiations and is one of the main reasons the greeks didnt get a better deal in the girst place
 
Rambo said:
I disagree with this but its more on a personal level than a logical one. One of the reasons I post those Ian Welch articles you hate so much is that he does a good job of relating the sort of "end of the line" ethos that I generally agree with. I'd personally rather die than live in abject, unending misery. I understand most wouldn't.
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I actually 100% agree with that, Head Like a Hole is pretty much a narrative of my life. I'm inclined to anarchy personally, but objectively I know that it isn't the answer for a society.
 
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I predict it will be all solved by Thursday. I'm sure yanni is a big game theory economist and the plan was for him to play bad cop and push EU and Germany in particular as far as they could. Over the edge if possible. Meanwhile the Greeks have had the nonsense populist referendum the purpose of which was to confuse delay the EU and shore up the govt at home. All done. Yanni resigns ministry, good cops step in and offer reasonable compromises to exasperated EU.


They should let the market work with loans. You lend to a high risk entity then jack up the rate and suck it up if they can't pay. Learn for next time. This is what would happen if governments didn't step in and rescue lenders with taxpayers money.
 
fxh said:
I predict it will be all solved by Thursday. I'm sure yanni is a big game theory economist and the plan was for him to play bad cop and push EU and Germany in particular as far as they could. Over the edge if possible. Meanwhile the Greeks have had the nonsense populist referendum the purpose of which was to confuse delay the EU and shore up the govt at home. All done. Yanni resigns ministry, good cops step in and offer reasonable compromises to exasperated EU.
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The problem is Yannis is actually the good cop economically speaking. The current minister is the bad cop. But by not being a raging dickhead he could have gotten a much better deal awhile back.

People always love to gripe about executive pay, and there are a lot of current instances where the complaints are valid, but managing people is an extremely rare skill and very difficult and demanding job. It's value is way beyond what the average wage earner produces. And everyone thinks they have this skill but almost no one does.

fxh said:
They should let the market work with loans. You lend to a high risk entity then jack up the rate and suck it up if they can't pay. Learn for next time. This is what would happen if governments didn't step in and rescue lenders with taxpayers money.
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I agree with this, but it's important to note that the EU rescuing the banks was only a happy side effect of them trying to prevent Greece's people from armageddon. Everyone says "Oh help Greece with debt", well newsflash, they already did by extending maturities and lowering interest payments by replacing private loans with government ones. The debt servicing was a small, and manageable, portion of GDP until Syriza imploded the fucking economy.
 
Democracy is probably the worst form of government known to man, with the possible exceptions of communism and islamic theocracy.

Things would work better if decisions were taken by a load of monkeys throwing their own faeces at a decision board - whatever the monkey shit lands on, that's what we do. I'm 100% serious, that would work better than our current system of letting any fuckwit who can mist a mirror cast his vote for whichever lying fucking charlatan promises him the most "free" shit.
 
Of course Greeks want to stick it up Germany. Anyway and anytime they can.

Greeks had the German nazis occupy them. Germany lost the war but got squillions of $ from USA especially and massive assistance with reconstruction of industry etc. Greeks feel rightly or wrongly they didn't get the help Germany got.
 
fxh said:
Of course Greeks want to stick it up Germany. Anyway and anytime they can.

Greeks had the German nazis occupy them. Germany lost the war but got squillions of $ from USA especially and massive assistance with reconstruction of industry etc. Greeks feel rightly or wrongly they didn't get the help Germany got.
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That's the Greek way.

"Do you speak Greek?"

"No, but I do make love that way."
 
fxh said:
Of course Greeks want to stick it up Germany. Anyway and anytime they can.

Greeks had the German nazis occupy them. Germany lost the war but got squillions of $ from USA especially and massive assistance with reconstruction of industry etc. Greeks feel rightly or wrongly they didn't get the help Germany got.
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Well, if you had gazillions of $ to spend, would you spend it on a country in the centre of Europe with a skilled workforce while sharing a border with a communist country, or would you give it to a country of fishermen, sheep /fruit farmers and sailors?
Nobody "likes" Germany or the Germans. We are respected or feared because of our economy, that's why Angela Merkel is considered "powerful", which I find completely idiotic. She's pretty harmless, that's why she is still alive or at least in office.
If she had objected the bank bailout back in 2008 I'm sure she wouldn't be showing her vulva symbol forming hands any more.
A while back there were images and videos shown of Greeks burning the German flag on a daily basis, yet they didn't mind taking the money of(f) the German tourists.
Someone has to tell the Greeks that they need to pay taxes (and all of them) in order to pay for public services and the early pensions, but I'm afraid that is a too unpopular subject, as it would cost politicians votes and power.
 
fxh said:
I predict it will be all solved by Thursday. I'm sure yanni is a big game theory economist and the plan was for him to play bad cop and push EU and Germany in particular as far as they could. Over the edge if possible. Meanwhile the Greeks have had the nonsense populist referendum the purpose of which was to confuse delay the EU and shore up the govt at home. All done. Yanni resigns ministry, good cops step in and offer reasonable compromises to exasperated EU.
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image.webp
 
Scherensammler said:
Well, if you had gazillions of $ to spend, would you spend it on a country in the centre of Europe with a skilled workforce while sharing a border with a communist country, or would you give it to a country of fishermen, sheep /fruit farmers and sailors?
Nobody "likes" Germany or the Germans. We are respected or feared because of our economy, that's why Angela Merkel is considered "powerful", which I find completely idiotic. She's pretty harmless, that's why she is still alive or at least in office.
If she had objected the bank bailout back in 2008 I'm sure she wouldn't be showing her vulva symbol forming hands any more.
A while back there were images and videos shown of Greeks burning the German flag on a daily basis, yet they didn't mind taking the money of(f) the German tourists.
Someone has to tell the Greeks that they need to pay taxes (and all of them) in order to pay for public services and the early pensions, but I'm afraid that is a too unpopular subject, as it would cost politicians votes and power.
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I wasn't suggesting the Greeks are right or blameless - they have lived in a tax dodging, fake jobs, big early unfunded pensions "paradise" for too long. I was just mentioning a lot of stuff that motivates them. If you want a solution then understanding the enemy (frenemy) is essential. Anyway all Europeans are funny. The have a different word than us for nearly everything!!
 
doghouse said:
I'm gonna go ahead and assume your shears are Valyrian steel.
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Yep, they will be handy against shill bloggers, suit scientists and, of course, the occasional white walkers and other degenerates.
Got them from a Humble Arthisan™ in Naples. I guess that's why their defence is weakened and said shillers have invaded the city.

In the meantime, the EU plays the waiting game, although it seems that some heads of state want to keep Greece in the union, mainly France and Italy, while Germany made the proposal to expel Greece until they are back on track.
I'm sure the ECB will play it's games until there is a more favourable Greek government.
 
Rambo said:
France is only hedging against their far right and Marie Le Pen.
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Doesn't hurt to score points with the socialist base either for Hollande, he could use the love right now.
 
You wont forget I said agreed /fixed by Thursday will you now?
 
If this goes down are we going to take bets on who buys which historical landmarks? I'm thinking The Parthenon, brought to you by Berkshire Hathaway has a nice ring to it.
 
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