Macroeconomic Reality

Easiest people to work with I have ever encountered. Unlike Indians who are a sneaky, protectionist bunch that build "code kingdoms" which only they know so you have to keep them around.

A German will always give you an accurate estimate and full day of work. They are very successful because of it.

I have worked with British people that don't tell you anything in order to build themselves up. It is not uniquely Indian. Indians can tend to be hierarchical and unwilling to innovate - but very polite with it.
 
Dude, the Germans are the most rigid motherfuckers out. That's why they will never have a significant market share in most sectors.

In the upside, I bet their IT actually knows shit like COBOL and assembly language unlike the suburban douchebags we put out today that call themselves 'IT' and you gnash your teeth they don't get jobs.

They aren't rigid, that's a misnomer. They're efficient. They know the best way to do something, and will quicky adopt a more efficient way of doing something if you can show it to be better.

Every interaction I have ever had has been one of trying to pass along knowledge and improving both of you in the process. Unlike Americans who view everything as a pissing contest, or an Indian who will never ever tell you he doesn't know something.

I'll work with Germans, Dutch and Swiss for the rest of my career if I could.
 
I have worked with British people that don't tell you anything in order to build themselves up. It is not uniquely Indian. Indians can tend to be hierarchical and unwilling to innovate - but very polite with it.

There are a lot more Indians around my parts than Brits, so I will take you at your word. It may not be uniquely Indian, but it's certainly pervasive among them. To an Indian, innovation is a risk you may fail or be exposed. They are the fakest-nice people out there, and extremely good at doing what they are told with a smile, it's why managers love them.
 
Typical leftist viewpoint trying to ignore German and Japanese success in manufacturing by trying to characterize it as normal, when the US is something other.

It is rather intriguing how far the left has drifted from support of manufacturing jobs to be seemingly totally against them considering those in blue collar jobs as reactionary luddites and machine breakers who need to be brought to heel.

Whilst automation has indeed reduced labour levels needed in large batch manufacturing, many in bespoke equipment fabrication facilities technology has delivered better products and the economies of scale i.e. fast track and more production. In many cases those jobs have not been replaced by artificially intelligent enhanced robots, but merely shipped overseas. Lots of examples in my industry from steel mills, valves, through to shipbuilding and pressure vessels.

The truth is, for the working class who traditonally worked with their hands and who are now shop assistants or in the service industries, if not on the dole, nothing can deliver decent wages and dignity comparable to manufacturing.

It is a not a trick question; it is a factual question. The way you twisted it to make it into the "Muslim question," is entirely disingenuous and, more importantly, irrelevant.

The correct answer is immigrants. The program ran in that particular form from 1950s all the way into 1980s and included all sorts of guest (conractual and/or migrant) workers (Italians, Spaniards, Portuguese, Greeks, Yugoslavians, Turks, and, I believe, even some workers from N. African countries). Whatever strong manufacturing base Germany had was exhausted - indeed, decimated - by the end of the war and apparently there weren't plenty of people around to rebuild. . .

But, yes, go on. . . Don't let the facts get in your way while you rant on about Muslims and other undesirable critters.

The correct answer is the Marshall Plan without it, Germany would not have been able to rebuild at the pace it did. The complete destruction of Germany's manufacturing base was actually an asset when the aid money came, as they were able to invest in new equipment and factories. Whereas the UK used it as dole money and pet projects like the NHS. Combined with the weak management and militant unions, the UK fell behind German engineering and manufacturing (with some notable exceptions) by the 70s.

The UK also had many workers go to West Germany in the 70s and 80s and there was a successful television soap Auf Weidershen, Pet about their adventures.

I've visited German manufacturers often in the last decade and a half, I still see a strong native working class in the factories and fabrication facilities. Or did. The token non-native looking immigrants appear to be relegated to the industrial paint shop.

Muslim manufacturing output in their own countries was negligible.

There is an argument that Arabic is a language that you cannot do complex engineering with.

Easiest people to work with I have ever encountered. Unlike Indians who are a sneaky, protectionist bunch that build "code kingdoms" which only they know so you have to keep them around.

A German will always give you an accurate estimate and full day of work. They are very successful because of it.

I agree German companies are extremely efficient and effective when it comes to getting the work done. However, their hierarchical nature means you need to be wary of design changes after contract award as they're going in that one direction and it becomes more difficult to manage. The Brits are much better at being pragmatic in this respect. That's in my experience.

I am afraid when it comes to the great Indian knowledge export, I am still not convinced by the latest batch. We have a lot of Indianization going on in my industry at the moment and it is dragging us backwards and inculcating networks that have a whiff of corruption about them. They are on paper extremely well qualified, but they lack face-to-face skills, seem to have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to Brits and are yes, sneaky when it comes to hiding defficient skill sets. Managers love them because they are not a threat (seemingly) and cheap. We see a mixed attitude with our clients. I've worked for a Indian (sikh) manager in the past and I have some colleagues who are Indian, but these are Anglophiles who came over in the 1980s early 90s with companies, I don't see the same level of professionalism or do I have confidence with those who are coming into the industry now.
 
The truth is, for the working class who traditonally worked with their hands and who are now shop assistants or in the service industries, if not on the dole, nothing can deliver decent wages and dignity comparable to manufacturing.

This is a blatantly false statement. The service industry is more remunerative, more skilled, and much, much more dignified. There is a yawing gap as we speak for bartenders and waiters in this country, hell, there are maybe half a dozen cities in the entire country that even have actual bartenders.

But this is an issue of our own creation. We have sold this grand myth of the noble savage factory worker to get a bunch of useful idiots to produce wealth for us, now we are sowing the consequences of shattering the myth. The only way out is to teach truth, that dignity only comes from oneself. It's pretty hard to argue that giving people a basic income so they could pursue what they actually love won't produce more dignity than pushing a red button on a factory floor a million times a day for their entire existence.
 
Does anyone on dressedwell even work in manufacturing? What kind of pocket squares do you guys wear to the factory?

This thread is nonsense. Humbug, I tell you.
 
This is a blatantly false statement. The service industry is more remunerative, more skilled, and much, much more dignified. There is a yawing gap as we speak for bartenders and waiters in this country, hell, there are maybe half a dozen cities in the entire country that even have actual bartenders.

But this is an issue of our own creation. We have sold this grand myth of the noble savage factory worker to get a bunch of useful idiots to produce wealth for us, now we are sowing the consequences of shattering the myth. The only way out is to teach truth, that dignity only comes from oneself. It's pretty hard to argue that giving people a basic income so they could pursue what they actually love won't produce more dignity than pushing a red button on a factory floor a million times a day for their entire existence.

You cannot compare a time served apprentice in a technician level engineering discipline to someone filling shelves in a supermarket or selling shoes in an outlet village. The remuneration is vastly different, in general. When I say service industry, I am referring to those positions available to those who are not academically inclined. The manufacturing world, with all its faults and dangers, offers a much better deal for these types. Historically, perhaps.

Does anyone on dressedwell even work in manufacturing? What kind of pocket squares do you guys wear to the factory?

I worked in engineering construction for many years, now I am in procurement to the "energy" industries. So I get to visit these manufacturing facilities a lot of the time and globally. But very sadly, since the mid-1990s most factories have become tiresome places for displaying peacock pocket squares. Everyone looks the same behind safety glasses, hard hat, ear protection and overalls. The worse is the humiliation of having to wear safety boots. Back in the day, when a gentleman walked the shop floor he would command respect, now it's impossible to tell whether you're some big shot client or head office executive, or some dude who's come in to sweep the floor.
 
You cannot compare a time served apprentice in a technician level engineering discipline to someone filling shelves in a supermarket or selling shoes in an outlet village.

I'm not, and neither are you.

When I say service industry, I am referring to those positions available to those who are not academically inclined.

Me as well. And you just contradicted your first sentence above.
 
Free trade is little more than elites betraying their own.

All the things you guys consider owed to you wouldn't even exist without free trade. We wouldn't be even having a conversation right now because computers wouldn't exist.
 
All the things you guys consider owed to you wouldn't even exist without free trade. We wouldn't be even having a conversation right now because computers wouldn't exist.
that's a complete crock of shit and something i'd expect from officepants.
 
that's a complete crock of shit and something i'd expect from officepants.

It's literally the truth. Things like tech would not exist because they would not be economically possible.
 
It's literally the truth. Things like tech would not exist because they would not be economically possible.
that's absurd. so you're saying if we didn't have our tech built by chinese slaves we wouldn't have any of it? who built all our technology before everything got offshored to china?
 
1) The number of guest workers was relatively small up until the late 70's. The first one to enter Germany as such Gastarbeiter was a guy from Portugal, who was donated a moped (sound silly, but that was the next best thing to owning a car). Germany's first guest workers came from nearby European countries, mostly Spain, Italy and Greece. Fun fact: Italian travelling salesmen had a very bad reputation in Germany for selling cheap crap, mostly to people in rural areas (farmers, who had more money than others). My old tailoring magazines are full of stories about Italians selling cheap cloths with fancy big "Made in England" stamps either on the box or the cloth itself. When the farmers took that cloth to their tailors it usually fell apart when they started working with it.
2) Due to the pressure of the industry captains Germany never implemented a time limit for Gastarbeiter, like other countries did.
3) Jobs in general manufacturing were first taken to Eastern countries, even before the reunification. A lot of stuff for the German forces was made in Yugoslavia, for example. The quality was accordingly. These days it's only high end engineering work that keeps some manufacturing work in Germany. Everything else is imported cheaply from Asia.
4) Millions of people in Germany are now working in poorly paid jobs at places like Amazon. Often subsidized by the government. A scheme that was initially created to help unemployed people find a job.
 
1) The number of guest workers was relatively small up until the late 70's. The first one to enter Germany as such Gastarbeiter was a guy from Portugal, who was donated a moped (sound silly, but that was the next best thing to owning a car). Germany's first guest workers came from nearby European countries, mostly Spain, Italy and Greece. Fun fact: Italian travelling salesmen had a very bad reputation in Germany for selling cheap crap, mostly to people in rural areas (farmers, who had more money than others). My old tailoring magazines are full of stories about Italians selling cheap cloths with fancy big "Made in England" stamps either on the box or the cloth itself. When the farmers took that cloth to their tailors it usually fell apart when they started working with it.
2) Due to the pressure of the industry captains Germany never implemented a time limit for Gastarbeiter, like other countries did.
3) Jobs in general manufacturing were first taken to Eastern countries, even before the reunification. A lot of stuff for the German forces was made in Yugoslavia, for example. The quality was accordingly. These days it's only high end engineering work that keeps some manufacturing work in Germany. Everything else is imported cheaply from Asia.
4) Millions of people in Germany are now working in poorly paid jobs at places like Amazon. Often subsidized by the government. A scheme that was initially created to help unemployed people find a job.

No, stop it. I called /thread, it's over.
 
It's literally the truth. Things like tech would not exist because they would not be economically possible.

More importantly I would not be drinking a nice cup of tea now without 'free trade'.

We had great stuff to sell that nobody else produced back in the day. However, the top man in China was not interested. He had all he wanted and did not want to sell us tea.

So we sold them opium. Then the Chinese had the cheek to object because their citizens were turning into cabbages. So we sent in the Royal Navy and forced them to take our opium. Then we got tea and set up tea plantations in India - just in case.

Then some clever chap stole the Chinese secrets for making porcelain and we never looked back. We had already nicked the silk making plans.
 
Free trade is little more than elites betraying their own.
It is nowadays. Back in the days of nation states and patriotism free trade also helped build a middle class and offered an alternative to agricultural for the rest.

Elites always look after number one of course.
 
It's bankers suit masquerading as an old man suit. Like a wolf in sheep's clothing. Looks like tweed, but is actually top top Cashmere. Just the thing for you.

When any suit crosses the threshold into one of those bank offices, it becomes a bankers suit. Like how regular water becomes holy water.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom