Nice Sound System for Home

Oops. Maybe I chose the wrong words. Speakers are probably all I need.

No problem with the medium of music. I just have them since I enjoyed hunting and finding new music. And being the only way to get the obscure stuff that seemed to never have been released anywhere else.

Getting record collection open has reminded me of how much difference sound quality makes. Since they've been in storage, I have had no speakers. So the cheapo speakers I've used to listen to my records has sort of been great and also an impetus to maybe get something nicer.
 
ballmouse said:
Didn't realize we had a thread here. I was just thinking about having some sort of aspirational sound system now that I'm getting my turntables out of storage to organize my record collection. The obvious name was Klipsch, though my reference point is a couple decades old. They seem to still be around. Anyone know if they are still top of the line? Or have they gone the way of so many other aspirational brands?
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Klipsch are famous for horn speakers which came back into fashion. I am not sure if that is still the case.

Many Hi Fi buffs are often obsessed with upgrading. It’s a bit like the watch crowd, constantly looking for the next purchase. I am not sure they are particularly interested in music. It’s more DIFFERENCES in the reproduction of the music that interests them.

As Journeyman points out, it’s not wise to get too interested in the latest tweaks. Special cables, turntable mats or whatever the current one is, there is always some other fad on the horizon.
 
fxh said:
Isn’t it Steve Hoffman who is an articulate apostle and good engineer who rails against compression. And runs a website and forums.
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Judicious application of compression is a requirement for listening music in the home.
 
Pimpernel Smith said:
My Bluesound Vault 2 is stuck in red software upgrade mode so is in repair. According to my reliable source in South Africa, the Bluesound streaming hardware is the choice of Billy Joel in his guest rooms. If it's not repairable or too expensive, I will just get the Node 2i and hook-up to the HiFi. Qobuz HiRes streaming is good enough. You pays your €25 a month and that's well worth it.

Haven't listened to CD's outside of the car for sometime, a couple of years now, so over the weekend went into the loft and brought down some for listening. First one played was Paul Weller's Studio 150 on some platinum CD and it sounds mega. My missus said it sounded tremendous better than streaming.

A lot was down hill from there on in. A Japanese YMO release of Naughty Boys completely overwhelmed with the layers of sound, on vinyl it's great. A John Lennon Greatest Hits completely condensed to first generation MP3 shiteness. I've still got some David Bowie first German releases on RCA from the mid-80s and they actually sound extremely good, but not as good as the recent remasters.

You also get that glassiness with a lot of CD's.

Overall, CD's are too hit and miss, they can deliver, but sadly, there was too much condensed remastering going on. I put that down to the fad for miniature HiFi and CD players in the late 80s and early 90s. The record labels thought why bother?
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The industry has been releasing 'hot' recordings since the 40s.

There's lots of reasons why the first generation CDs sounded bad, the technology being in its infancy, incorrect mastering techniques or not bothering to remaster at all and using the vinyl masters, chief amongst them.

The process of mastering for CD is different to the mastering for vinyl due to the technical limitations of the latter.
 
formby002 said:
The industry has been releasing 'hot' recordings since the 40s.

There's lots of reasons why the first generation CDs sounded bad, the technology being in its infancy, incorrect mastering techniques or not bothering to remaster at all and using the vinyl masters, chief amongst them.

The process of mastering for CD is different to the mastering for vinyl due to the technical limitations of the latter.
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I've some first generation German RCA CDs of David Bowie. They're often held-up as the definitive masters of CDs. They were mastered from the original tapes. Bowie's voice is very much to the fore. If you remember those Gold edition CD's, it wasn't the ''gold'' that was bringing the better sound it was that there were all remastered from the original tapes.

The fad for miniature hi-fis in the early 90s may have influenced the compression/loudness wars. The industry realized that the needed something that sounded reasonable on these smaller systems and needed a wall of sound, rather than nuance of depth and space between musicians. The CD's from that era sound particularly shite. The RCA ones mentioned above are much better.

I've got a lot of jazz in the Blu-Spec and other final premium CD improved formats from Japan and American audiophile ones. Most of them are pretty immaculate. All a bit late, as you can't stop the ease and quality of Hi-Res streaming.
 
Pimpernel Smith said:
I've some first generation German RCA CDs of David Bowie. They're often held-up as the definitive masters of CDs. They were mastered from the original tapes. Bowie's voice is very much to the fore. If you remember those Gold edition CD's, it wasn't the ''gold'' that was bringing the better sound it was that there were all remastered from the original tapes.

The fad for miniature hi-fis in the early 90s may have influenced the compression/loudness wars. The industry realized that the needed something that sounded reasonable on these smaller systems and needed a wall of sound, rather than nuance of depth and space between musicians. The CD's from that era sound particularly shite. The RCA ones mentioned above are much better.

I've got a lot of jazz in the Blu-Spec and other final premium CD improved formats from Japan and American audiophile ones. Most of them are pretty immaculate. All a bit late, as you can't stop the ease and quality of Hi-Res streaming.
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The use of Gold was to stop potential oxidation of the reflective layer of the CD which was usually made from pure aluminium. This would oxidise if the protective lacquer layer was compromised.

I think you're wasting your time with hi-res recordings. The red book standard is good enough, there is no need for 24 bit 192khz technology except in recording studios.

Its just marketing BS and another way which record companies can monetise their existing back catalogues.
 
Not to mention your hearing can't detect any differences on a proper double blind ABX test
 
Back in the late 70’s I worked at a high end dealer. We had one of those “advanced” electronic A/B switches. One day I set up a customer to compare the McIntosh MC2205 (solid state) stereo power amp with a pair of Luxman “Laboratory Reference” tube monoblocks. After listening for well over an hour the customer placed an order for the Luxman’s. I later discovered that the electronic A/B switch was faulty, though the lights switched from A to B, the McIntosh was always engaged, the Luxman’s never engaged. When I let the customer know I’d discovered this, he decided to keep the monoblocks.
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formby002 said:
The use of Gold was to stop potential oxidation of the reflective layer of the CD which was usually made from pure aluminium. This would oxidise if the protective lacquer layer was compromised.
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That was marketing at the time, I remember that. But the difference sound wise, was that they had been mastered from the original master tapes.

formby002 said:
I think you're wasting your time with hi-res recordings. The red book standard is good enough, there is no need for 24 bit 192khz technology except in recording studios.

Its just marketing BS and another way which record companies can monetise their existing back catalogues.
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It depends, as an example, if you stream or download Sgt Pepper remastered in 24bit 192khz it's definitely an improvement on previous versions. What is going on is more than Hi-Res: the remastering itself, improving the texture and yes, pumping up McCartney's bass lines to make them more prominent. So it is a different listening experience.

Individuals and fanatics are always going to seek out the latest remasters to find the definitive versions and where the new emphasis lies in the recording be it voice, bass, or overall difference in sound.

fxh said:
Not to mention your hearing can't detect any differences on a proper double blind ABX test
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I get that and CD's can only ever be 16bit, so even an alleged 24bit recording is folded down to 16 for the actual CD.
 
OTOH - my mate had just invested/frittered $$ on some good "vintage" surround sound gear and is buying up CD sets of Bob Dylan etc remastered to surround - hes wrapped - I haven't heard it yet - but we are in lock-down so maybe hes just lost the plot
 
fxh said:
OTOH - my mate had just invested/frittered $$ on some good "vintage" surround sound gear and is buying up CD sets of Bob Dylan etc remastered to surround - hes wrapped - I haven't heard it yet - but we are in lock-down so maybe hes just lost the plot
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I had a particularly excellent 5.1 surround mix of Neil Young's Harvest. The problem I found with the whole surround sound is that the zone where it all happens seems to a be a meter square and straying out of this results in diminished sound returns.

Was at the hi-fi store yesterday to pick-up my repaired Bluesound Vault 2. My missus will likely buy the new television from there this month, an LG. I watch very little television, so I leave it the missus and the kids. But being my missus, she'll research and tabulate pros and cons plus prices in some depth for several weeks, before buying the first or second television we considered. Currently they've whizzed my work computer set-up to use as stand in television which is now in the living room.

We had Loewe now beyond repair and the stand is not interchangeable with the new televisions which pissed the missus off big time. The owner told me there's a couple of customers who face the same problem only worse they had sound systems linked to the Loewe televisions which are no longer compatible with the new Loewe televisions, or any other brand. No wonder they've nearly gone bust a couple of times in the last couple of years.
 
Kingstonian said:
They always made nice looking kit. There was usually a better sounding alternative though. No price shown on that link.
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Apparently, a reconditioned and revitalised turntable will cost GBP9,000. That's a nine, followed by three zeroes, in pounds sterling.

The father of one of my high school friends was an architect. He used to have a B&O audio setup like this in his lounge room, and - under strict instructions to handle it very, very carefully - we'd listen to his dad's old LPs of Pink Floyd and the Stones:

beosystem6000id3.jpg


If he still has it, it's probably worth a bomb now. However, he probably tossed it a couple of decades ago and replaced it with a horrible, all-in-one micro unit.
 
Journeyman said:
Apparently, a reconditioned and revitalised turntable will cost GBP9,000. That's a nine, followed by three zeroes, in pounds sterling.

The father of one of my high school friends was an architect. He used to have a B&O audio setup like this in his lounge room, and - under strict instructions to handle it very, very carefully - we'd listen to his dad's old LPs of Pink Floyd and the Stones:

View attachment 35706

If he still has it, it's probably worth a bomb now. However, he probably tossed it a couple of decades ago and replaced it with a horrible, all-in-one micro unit.
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I happen to have one of the later Beogram versions upstairs. They're not expensive in working condition about €500. They were built to last forever.
 
The guy I use for fountain pen repairs is an old eccentric ex-hi fi repair guy. We were talking about build quality in the golden days of hi fi. We talked about McIntosh panels, and bombproof Crown amps, Tandberg motors, etc., but he said the first time he worked on some early B&O, the quality of the fabrication, layout, and of course the liberal use of beautiful rosewood panels just blew his mind.
 
TCN01 said:
The guy I use for fountain pen repairs is an old eccentric ex-hi fi repair guy. We were talking about build quality in the golden days of hi fi. We talked about McIntosh panels, and bombproof Crown amps, Tandberg motors, etc., but he said the first time he worked on some early B&O, the quality of the fabrication, layout, and of course the liberal use of beautiful rosewood panels just blew his mind.
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It's sad what B&O has become. The herd caught up and leap frogged ahead. They're basically a component to my laptop and wide screen computer screen now. The name still has some cache, but they're not the ultra-modernist design point man anymore and their limited range tells you all you need to know.
 
Pimpernel Smith said:
It's sad what B&O has become. The herd caught up and leap frogged ahead. They're basically a component to my laptop and wide screen computer screen now. The name still has some cache, but they're not the ultra-modernist design point man anymore and their limited range tells you all you need to know.
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their headphones are all second class while they've been outpaced on the technology front by a mile.
 
Journeyman said:
What's a good pair of "consumer level" headphones that aren't ludicrously expensive? Something around the price of B&O?
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Grado:

gradolabs.com

Headphones

Statement-X Series Headphones GS3000x Sold out GS1000x Sold out Reference-X Series Headphones RS1x Sold out RS2x Sold out Hemp Sold out Prestige-X Series Headphones SR325x Sold out SR225x Sold out SR125x Sold out SR80x Sold out SR60x Sold out In-Ear and Wireless Headphones GW100x Sold out GT220...
gradolabs.com gradolabs.com
 
I’m about to lash out. I think. On over the ear, closed back, wireless, noise cancelling phones.
from-talking to my mates I should be able to get a decent pair for under $300 aud.

Anyone with experience and recommendations.?
 
Journeyman said:
What's a good pair of "consumer level" headphones that aren't ludicrously expensive? Something around the price of B&O?
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I don't know if you get Shure products there, but I have over the ear ($110CAD) and earbuds ($130CAD) from Shure and they are fantastic.
 
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fxh said:
I’m about to lash out. I think. On over the ear, closed back, wireless, noise cancelling phones.
from-talking to my mates I should be able to get a decent pair for under $300 aud.

Anyone with experience and recommendations.?
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Not a fan of closed-back and studio headphones. I need open back ones if I want to listen for an extended period. Annoys the family a bit more, especially when I start blasting the sound up.
 
Journeyman said:
What's a good pair of "consumer level" headphones that aren't ludicrously expensive? Something around the price of B&O?
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fxh said:
I’m about to lash out. I think. On over the ear, closed back, wireless, noise cancelling phones.
from-talking to my mates I should be able to get a decent pair for under $300 aud.

Anyone with experience and recommendations.?
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Im a bose guy. The QC35 II are bluetooth, very light weight, have great battery life, noise cancelling, and are cheap now. I did not like the bose 700 model as i hate touch controls with a passion.

If you want more details let me know. I've tried out a boatload of pairs
 
B&O

Style, over substance.

Always was...

For closed: B&W

For open: Grado.

But there are others...
 
formby002 said:
B&O

Style, over substance.

Always was...

For closed: B&W

For open: Grado.

But there are others...
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B&O's Avant televisions were state of the art, back in the 1990s. They had streaming hardware awhile ago, but they ditched that. My work computer screens and HP Dragonfly laptop all have Bang & Olufsen proudly displayed on them. But for how long? If you paid the serious money for a franchise, would you be pissed-off at this stage?

I had the full B&O set-up with television and hifi in 5.1. The chief benefit was I got a shed load of money when I sold it, except for the Avant television which we gave away to some second hand store who came and picked it up.

My parents had the six CD set-up with the long hifi speakers. It looked great. The sound was good too. It had some quirks: Eleanor Rigby on The Beatles anthology picked-up sounds I've never heard on any other play back system. Very strange. Penny Lane style.
 
Rambo said:
If you want more details let me know. I've tried out a boatload of pairs
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A few people in my office wear those Bose headphones while they are concentrating. They certainly seem popular.

Have you tried out the Sony WH-1000-whatever-they're-called? If so, how do they compare to the Bose?
 
Thanks. I’m inclined to Grado but to appease others I’m looking at closed back.
 
Rambo said:
Im a bose guy. The QC35 II are bluetooth, very light weight, have great battery life, noise cancelling, and are cheap now. I did not like the bose 700 model as i hate touch controls with a passion.

If you want more details let me know. I've tried out a boatload of pairs
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I’m biased against Bose. Except in car systems. But you might convince me otherwise.
 
Pimpernel Smith said:
B&O's Avant televisions were state of the art, back in the 1990s. They had streaming hardware awhile ago, but they ditched that. My work computer screens and HP Dragonfly laptop all have Bang & Olufsen proudly displayed on them. But for how long? If you paid the serious money for a franchise, would you be pissed-off at this stage?

I had the full B&O set-up with television and hifi in 5.1. The chief benefit was I got a shed load of money when I sold it, except for the Avant television which we gave away to some second hand store who came and picked it up.

My parents had the six CD set-up with the long hifi speakers. It looked great. The sound was good too. It had some quirks: Eleanor Rigby on The Beatles anthology picked-up sounds I've never heard on any other play back system. Very strange. Penny Lane style.
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B&O was heavily reliant on Phillips technology ( I think they owned them at one time) nothing wrong with that, Phillips makes some very sophisticated products. but their gear was seriously overpriced. You could get if carefully selected hi-fi separates at half the price of their B&O equivalents that would sound better. I don't know anybody who was serious about music enough to shell out for expensive hi-fi that ever considered B&O.

IIRC they wouldn't allow their products to be reviewed by the British Hi-Fi press because of the disparity between cost and audio quality.

As for the linear tracking turntable above, only a clown (or a retro hipster - same thing) would pay £9000 for that.
 
Journeyman said:
A few people in my office wear those Bose headphones while they are concentrating. They certainly seem popular.

Have you tried out the Sony WH-1000-whatever-they're-called? If so, how do they compare to the Bose?
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yes, both the 1000-XM3 and the 1000-XM4. i found them to be less comfortable for long wear sessions than the bose. the sound was slightly better but keep in mind i don't listen to a ton of music. mostly tv and podcasts and just to use them to drown out noise with the noise cancellation.

i absolutely hated the bose 700's though. one of my main use cases is having them on listening to something while i'm doing the dishes or other chores. i could never get the controls to work if my hands were wet or i was wearing gloves because the stupid fucking touch pads on the ears wouldn't register. so i'd have to take off my gloves or dry my hands then start tapping on the earpads or get my phone out of my pocket.
fxh said:
I’m biased against Bose. Except in car systems. But you might convince me otherwise.
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their home speakers sucks. the noise cancelling headphones are the last good thing they made and even that seems to be going by the wayside.
 
formby002 said:
B&O was heavily reliant on Phillips technology ( I think they owned them at one time) nothing wrong with that, Phillips makes some very sophisticated products. but their gear was seriously overpriced. You could get if carefully selected hi-fi separates at half the price of their B&O equivalents that would sound better. I don't know anybody who was serious about music enough to shell out for expensive hi-fi that ever considered B&O.

IIRC they wouldn't allow their products to be reviewed by the British Hi-Fi press because of the disparity between cost and audio quality.

As for the linear tracking turntable above, only a clown (or a retro hipster - same thing) would pay £9000 for that.
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Didn't know they were reliant on Phillips. I thought it was all, pretty much in-house. Philips make a good electric razor with the S9000.

With B&O it was all about the sleek design and ultra modernist aesthetics. Individuals were willing to compromise on sound for the systems that looked state-of-the-art. All those designs are mainstream now. But there's still a a viable second hand market:

www.vintage-bangandolufsen.com

Bang and olufsen BeoSound hifi system

BANG AND OLUFSEN MODELS WE SELL OFTEN: Beocenter: 2500, Beocenter 8000, Beocenter 9000, Beocenter 8500, Beocenter 9500 and Beocenter 9300 Beosound: Ouverture, beosound 3000, beosound 3200, and beosound 4000 Beosystem: 5000, beosystem 5500, beosystem 6500 and beo system 7000 Beomaster 3500 and...
www.vintage-bangandolufsen.com www.vintage-bangandolufsen.com
 
what are people using for DACs and streaming devices? I have a quality 2-channel solid-state integrated amp and stand mount speakers.

DAC + Streamer all-in-one like WiiM amp or Bluesound Node? Separate (better) DAC + WiiM to stream?
 
Thruth said:
what are people using for DACs and streaming devices? I have a quality 2-channel solid-state integrated amp and stand mount speakers.

DAC + Streamer all-in-one like WiiM amp or Bluesound Node? Separate (better) DAC + WiiM to stream?
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What are you streaming? Unless it’s FLAC from your own server you’ll never get the full quality from that kind of setup.
 
Grand Potentate said:
What are you streaming? Unless it’s FLAC from your own server you’ll never get the full quality from that kind of setup.
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Primarily Spotify and other services like Tidal, Roon, etc, so I need something with a DAC and a good streaming interface.
 
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