Passaggio Cravatte - The Scandal Continues

[ConchitaWurst]

found this on the other forvm

Ok guys, I warn you this will be a somewhat lengthy story. Sorry for that but I also did a management summary.

MANAGEMENT SUMMARY:
- Gianni Cerutti visited Patrizio Cappelli’s own workshop in 2012 and managed to get his hands on English fabrics that were commissioned and owned by Patrizio Cappelli with help of a dishonest employee of Patrizio Cappelli that was fired when Patrizio Cappelli found out;
- These fabrics then ended up in the Neapolitan workshop that makes (made?) Passaggio ties and also makes ties for Patrizio Cappelli and were made up as Passaggio ties;
- these were all English fabrics approximately 5-10 years old, which have been passed off by Gianni Cerutti as ancient Italian fabrics;
- not only has Gianni Cerutti been lying about these fabrics, he has also been willfully passing of a recent Garza as an old now extinct fabric;
- and has been selling inkjet printed silk as vintage fabric. Which has been identified as inkjet printed by quite a few authorities in the field;
- a lot of his current stock is end run designs by Greiff for houses like Gucci that he gets at seteria canepa who are big on inkjet printing;
- Whether you like the fabrics Gianni Cerutti currently has on offer is a matter of personal taste, and you may be willing to pay the premium he is charging, but it cannot be denied that Gianni Cerutti has been lying and bullshitting and even when caught red handed decided to continue with this practice.
- Saying that, we should hope that at the very best he is bullshitting, but it wouldn’t surprise me if he simply doesn’t know the difference between Italian and English silks, or inkjet and silk screen. This probably is even worse for someone in his trade.

FULL STORY
Well, it all started with a pretty innocent question in Gianni Cerutti’s thread. I saw him posting a tie that I knew all too well

And here's another one of our bespoke vintage ties at the neck of a great friend of mine customer! We have always done all unlined and all hemmed by hand.

http://www.styleforum.net/t/364005/Passaggio-cravatte-official-affiliate-thread/1350_30#post_7067117

first I thought it was probably a Google translate thing, blaming it on the language barrier and, that he was actually calling this a bespoke VINTAGE tie. I thought he might be referring to the way it was made. you know his standard bladibla ‘all made by hand like 100 years ago’.

Incidentally I actually discussed this exact tie with my friend lookingtoimprove when we met up at our tailors a few weeks before that. he mentioned it was one of his favorites and he would like to get a similar one at some point in time.

Lookingtoimprove and I commissioned this garza to be woven via Gianni when we met him when he had just started his tie venture. we were introduced to him via Riccardo Bestetti, the shoemaker. when we ordered our ties, Gianni told us he (the mill) needed a minimum of two ties. I was under the impression that the length that would be commissioned would be only sufficient for two ties. but Gianni must have had some spare meters left, since he at least made one more tie from this silk as shown in the picture he uploaded of his happy friend-customer. btw, I now understand mills will generally require a 6 meter minimum (sometimes even 18 meters) which is sufficient for 5 7-fold ties. I am totally ok with there being more than two of the same ties by the way.

I posted a comment in the thread referring to the special run he did for us, hoping that he would clarify the
matter and confirm it is was not an ancient thirst.

That's indeed a nice tie! Is it the same as the special run you did for Looking to Improve and me about two years ago?

Gianni Cerutti then put up a smoke curtain and replied

Thank you so much for your kind post. It is the same grenadine I had done two years ago for you. It was the last piece and now it's finished. I find it always wonderful and important. If I had to find a name to call this the grenadine princess.

suggesting this was some sort of extinct fabric, whilst clearly knowing this was one of the many patters from the books of seteria bianchi which can be remade anytime.

Hi Gianni , yes I recall you showing us this great pattern -a true princess indeed- and several others beautiful garza patterns from the Bianchi garza book, or was it Fermo Fossati, which could all be remade. Would be great if we could do another rerun, in another color or a different pattern, mayby a special one for styleforum?
It is a great tie. Especially for summer.

he clearly wasn't interested in a re-run - which would mean he had to explain that this wasn't an ancient thirst with many years on its shoulder at all - because he totally ignored the matter and went in his standard ‘ancient thirst’/’complimenti’/’molto elegante’/’gladiator two tone’ mode.

because this left me pretty puzzled I got on the phone with the mill to see whether these re-runs were still possible. sure, no probs! I sent them a picture of the brown/orange garza pattern and they then very kindly sent clippings of all the non-proprietary colourways.

at the same time I contacted Patrizio Cappelli where I get another fair share of my ties and he agreed to make the ties and order the silk from the mill provided there would be interest in at least 6 meters. the interest check I did here http://www.styleforum.net/t/387153/vintage-like-special-run-garza-to-be-made-by-patrizio-cappelli-3-colourways-already-good-to-go/0_30 and order with the mill has been placed by Patrizio Cappelli for three colourways

you all probably heard of Patrizio Cappelli. For those who haven’t, he is the tie maker that is not honestly paying affiliate vendor fees which would allow him to spam the forum with nonsense and bullshit, but nonetheless gets some nice spinoff from all of this and sometimes even favorable reviews without asking for them. A friendly reference was made to him here:

[…]
Meanwhile, tomorrow alert directly administer Styleforum because I noticed that there are some people with multiple accounts playing criticize honest craftsmen.
They do this because behind this there are economic interests to their advantage. And this I speak from personal experience, I've lived on my skin. And of course because I have proof . And I will say that there are also brands that do not advertise and write quietly . While I honest to pay for advertising.

when telling him the story about the garza, Patrizio Cappelli asked me whether I recalled he had already warned me for Passaggio about two years ago when he saw me wearing the first tie I got from Passaggio

When he warned me in 2012 I believe he did not do it in an attempt to make sure I would only get his ties from then on (because he knows I also get ties from tie-your-tie, marinella, antonio muro – who makes the rtw ties for leonardo bugelli which is one of the shirtmakers I use, and some others) but really because he was upset.

at the time I took his comment with a grain of salt, and thought that what he was saying was that Passaggio was copying him. At that point I didn’t discuss the matter with Patrizio Cappelli in any more detail. I probably got distracted by the fabrics in his shop and he didn’t push any further. but now that we were talking about the special garza run he explained that the cashmere pow was not copied by Passaggio but got ‘lost’ in his workshop. and it was in fact not the only piece of fabric that went missing.
Patrizio told me he uses two workshops. One is his own. The other he uses when there is overflow and he gets his ties made there to the exact same specifications as he would if they are made in his own workshop. The ‘overflow workshop’ is also used by other prominent brands [think rubinacci etc.] for their bespoke ties. This incidentally is also the workshop that makes (made?) the Passaggio ties.
At some point in 2012 when Gianni Cerutti was just starting out, or maybe just before that, he visited Patrizio’s own workshop [Gianni Cerutti at that point was still working as a fashion journalist, his initial profession]. This is where Patrizio Cappelli stored the fabrics in question. He told me that exactly at that day the fabrics went missing. According to Patrizio Cappelli these were obscured with the help of an employee that was laid off by Patrizio Cappelli when he found out. Then all these fabrics then turned up at the ‘overflow workshop’ and were made up as Passaggio ties.

Patrizio Cappelli says it must have been pretty clear to Gianni Cerutti these were Patrizio Cappelli’s fabrics. They were stored in Patrizio’s workshop and they had his name tags on it like this:

more in the next post.

 

[ConchitaWurst]

Things now fell into place. When first meeting Gianni Cerutti in Holland in 2012 we were pretty pleased with his offerings. And we bought quite a few. He told us he specialized in old fabrics of which only a few meters were left and newly made Garza. We ordered the special Garza run, some green Garza scarves and quite a few of his ‘ancient fabrics’ which for a substantial part now turn out to be made from the lost Cappelli fabrics. Which Patrizio Cappelli tells us are all English fabrics approximately 5-10 years old. And he should know because he ordered them in the first place.
As I didn’t go into detail about the lost fabrics when talking to Patrizio Cappelli back in 2012 I didn’t terminate my client relationship with Gianni Cerutti there and then ,but instead kept ordering ties, pocket squares and scarves from Gianni Cerutti up until as recent as this spring. I did even recommend him to quite a few friends. I did note that over time there were less and less design that grabbed my attention compared to his offerings the first time around. But that is really a matter of taste. Still in between the hundreds of fabrics I could always find a few.

Apart from these fabrics – with Patrizio Cappelli’s name tag on them – getting ‘lost’, what is really an issue, is that Gianni Cerutti is just bullshitting his customers trying to make them believe these 5-10 year old English fabrics are ancient Italian fabrics.

halp guise
i want to know
if this is real
or fake....
this tie
the seller told
me the fabric
had 78 years
behind teh shoulder
made by italian
ancient weaver
always by hand job:

but i found out
original
was made not so
ancient
only 10 years
behind its wet ears
because it is engrish

halp....
did i buy original
only one made before
it was extingushied fake italian
ancient fabric tie?
or did i buy
fake
real modern engish
only weaver in teh
world who blockprints
this pattern?

halp again guise....
i haz another 2
from teh same person
who said is
two very vintage
very italian
old hand prints
of Italian many years ago

but.....
again i saw
the similar fabrics
made very recently
(not so many years
on his shoulders
only 5)
made by engrish
hadamley people
with original real
patterns and designs.....


do i have
original
fake italian fabric
of many years ago
and now extingushed
tie fabric and the only
moster left is in pictures?
or do i have
a fake
but real
modern english
hadamley with
the holliday and brown
proprietory patterns
from teh archives
fabric tie?

This can only mean that “1) he doesn’t have any understanding of the fabrics that he is selling”, and/or “2) he is just bullshitting all his friends-customers like he did about the brown/orange Garza passing is off as a distinct thirst never to see the face of the earth again”. either way he is lying through his teeth.

Now the other funny thing was that a few weeks ago my tailor came to visit me all the way from Como. he is a no name local tailor with a small shop mainly catering for locals in the Como-Milano region and doing some bespoke work for a few high end fashion brands with flagstore shops in Milano (e.g. prada etc.; they apparently offer bespoke to some of their very rich clientele, think Russian millionaires/billionaires). He generally tells us some funny stories about having to make up 5 similar vicuna jackets for each of the homes the typical prada bespoke client owns.

anyway, back to Passaggio and Gianni Cerutti. when my tailor was at my home and we did a prova and I asked him to make a few alterations to some other suits and I opened up my wardrobe door. While I was busy going in and out of suits he casually went through some of my ties.

just making conversation he asked whether I could tell the difference between inkjet and silkscreen printed ties. And I told him no. and he then showed me the back of one of my Passaggio ties

And told me that this was an example of inkjet printed silk. I told him that this would surprise me as it was sold to me as “an ancient thirst with many years on its shoulder”. He told me he was very sure this was a quite recent inkjet printed fabric. He told me it was most likely made by seteria canepa. http://www.canepa.it/ . Who use the inkjet printing technique a lot

=D
seteria canepa
is teh largest silk printers
in italy
and utilize silkscreens
and inkjet
read here
they have 10 masheens
for teh digital printing
more info here
eg:

as a private individual
you can go to their
outlet
and buy printed silks
and end bolts
and many are
funky old designs
and make
your own ties...
canepa outlet

And identified a few other inkjet printed ties and mentioned that a very good fried of him actually works at canepa and he knows for a fact that Gianni Cerutti is a regular in their outlet store. where Gianni Cerutti buys end pieces of designs by Greiff for houses like Gucci. He phoned up his friend at canepa there and then and he confirmed. The funny video cerutti/dog/tomato footage I uploaded when answering a question from P-K-L

[…]
Ah, the outlet... who is a regular? Do you have bulletproof evidence? Video surveillance footage?
Always thank you dear!

Has unfortunately been axed by the moderators over at styleforum. It was probably not in good taste to have a bit of fun at the expense of an affiliate vendor. Apologies for that.

By the way, my tailor also added Gianni Cerutti made quite a mess in his home market and told me to ask Gianni Cerutti [in the words of my tailor: the scam artist] whether he already fixed the tie he made for the Milanese shoemaker antonio pio melo https://www.google.nl/url?q=http://vimeo.com/45562850&sa=U&ei=Udd1U-O7EoK8ObnTgJgJ&ved=0CE8QtwIwCg&usg=AFQjCNELJBwaS1fQHK_sLuuLN5kbZXsvmg

Intrigued by the inkjet story I removed the tags from the above tie and gave it to a friend who was going to Napoli a few days later to get some stuff from his tailor asking him to show it to Patrizio Cappelli and ask him whether it was indeed an inkjet printed silk.

MORE IN NEXT POST

 

[ConchitaWurst]

Patrizio Cappelli also confirmed the tie to be inkjet printed, upon which I made this post in Gianni Cerutti’s thread

P-K-L , your post made me check out the Cappelli thread.
What triggered me there was the recent discussion and explanation about inkjet printed silks:
Never ever considered the option before that some of my Passaggio ties could be made from inkjet printed silks given that they explicitly sold as being vintage.
I checked out my ties and pocket squares and I am now wondering whether I have actually bought some inkjet printed silks instead of true vintage ones. For example this one:
Quickly went through this thread to see whether it is a one-off. But it seems to me there might be quite a few others. To quote just a few:

[AND SOME OTHERS BUT THIS FORUM IS HELL UPLOADING PICTURES!!!!]

I really hope this is all just a big misunderstanding and that Gianni actually knows what he is selling, so we can keep enjoying our vintage ties. But P-K-L's post about the David Evans hopsack makes me wonder….

Instead of addressing the matter in a straight forward manner, Gianni dodged the subject, ignored my post completely, and started slandering others, playing innocent and acting like a victim
And continuing to blatantly lie to others when enquiring whether their ties may be made from inkjet printed silk. For instance the answer he gave to tchoy about one of his ties:

Thank you very much for your kind post. I really appreciate it. And thank you for your honesty.
Meanwhile, I am really very happy to know that you like my tie, really. And kudos as always to your blog. I love it.
Coming to the three ties all of your photos is very simple. These three vintage silks printed still hand many years ago. The effect is different because all three hand prints have been made on a basis of different silk. And on every silk ink releases a different effect. This is both in front and in back. And this is normal.
Whatever you need are at your disposal.

In the words of Patrizio Cappelli – who of course also reads all this now that we got him involved – this is A MAXIMUM LIE. It is probably not a real expression in English, but it is in Italian.

Apart from Cappelli also some resident experts over at Styleforum have also confirmed that most, if not all the ties I quoted, are inkjet printed. Some very plainly. Some a bit more indirect. But I can fully understand that other affiliate vendors are not jumping up and down to get dragged into this mud fight.

It's a shame but there's a few certainties of facts that can't be misconstrued in language barriers etc. I've got 5 years experience in the screen printing industry in a former job (not clothing related) so I know a bit about the pluses and minuses of it vs inkjet. I'll just share my thoughts here as we are all friends and to not get involved on someone else's affiliate thread.
1) there is no doubt that all of those fabrics that PKL quoted are not vintage and are inkjet printed. They are easy to tell because of the white backing on them. Nothing wrong with that, many of my printed silks are as well but there is something wrong with passing them off as vintage and charging 2-3 times the price many other makers charge.
2) in the inkjet vs screen printing debate, screen printing tends to give a deeper colour as the dye goes deeper in to the fabric but it has it's downsides too, such as achieving good registration (lining the colours up) as you can get movement between screens which throws the pattern off. Inkjet has essentially perfect registration, but the colours don't penetrate as deep. That said I've had and continue to have some really beautiful inkjet fabrics, as does capelli et al.
Inkjet also let's you do shorter runs of fabric so can be a big advantage to smaller makers like myself, but it actually gets more expensive than screen printing for larger runs of fabric.
Anyway I hope the Gianni does actually address some of those questions aimed at him in a bit more depth than he has so far I.e not at all. Both for the sake of his business and the people with pitchforks ready.

"what i call 'white'
is the term cappelli
uses
but it does not mean
virgin white
none of the inkjets
that i saw was pure
snow white
like the photo
you showed.
i would have called that
'white'
edit:
fuji lens
but using
nikon lenscap"
I have a Konica-Minolta camera with a Nikon lenscap.
My Konica-Minolta was the last one made before Sony bought the camera division.
So when my lens cap broke I had few choices.
After I finish my building project (It never seems to end...) I will buy a new camera and give Sam the old Konica Minolta.
My current thoughts are that the new lens will be more important than the camera.
I find myself constantly trying to understand what Italians (and Thai) mean when they speak English...
So I am not surprised at the difference in terms...

Go back and read the last 5-10 pages of the thread in question. Henry Carter members explained it quite well.

Now you may like the fabrics Gianni Cerutti currently has on offer, that’s a matter of personal taste, and you may be willing to pay the premium he is charging, that is a matter of priorities and everybody is free to start a business relationship with whoever they like. But it CANNOT be denied that Gianni Cerutti has been lying, cheating and bullshitting and even when caught red handed decided to continue with this practice.
his most recent claim, that he now repeats time and time again

Thank you very much for your kind message. And thank you for your good question.
Meanwhile, I am very happy to know that you like my bespoke vintage neckties .
For 99.9% of mine are really thirsty vintage hand printed many years ago . I think that vintage silks of the early 1900s. And all are endangered . Also because I hate digital prints . In fact, we're not like all brands. I am more an antique shop because I live in search of antique textiles . And I enjoy that.
[...]

may be true, but that would mean he has done away with a lot of his stock. The end of roll fabrics he bought at canepa surely aren’t 40 years or more as per his own definition of ancient.
For the record: I am not saying that none of his fabrics are vintage, and I must admit that I still like a few of the designs he carries, but I will not order from him again, and I think after this post – or maybe even before that – he also doesn’t want me as a client-friend anymore.

 

[Grand Potentate]

Looking forward to the rest. Incidentally, if you ever talk to these guys again and they want a place to talk about this shit, tell them they're free to post whatever the fuck they want here. You know, in case they're in need of a good internet airing of the dirty laundry.

 

[Grand Potentate]

Does anyone know where this "thirst"(y) vintage thing came from?

 

[ConchitaWurst]

I will tell them.

The story with nice pictures is here http://www.styleforum.net/t/393161/the-fascinating-world-of-inkjet-printed-fabrics/0_30#post_7140848

I found it pretty hard to upload here. But I nontheless am very much enjoying the free spirit over here!

 

[Robert]

@ ConchitaWurst.

I believe your posting has been removed from Styleforum. When the link you provided is clicked, you end up at the topic page of 'Classic Menwear', (a misnomer if ever I heard one).

 

[Grand Potentate]

@ ConchitaWurst.

I believe your posting has been removed from Styleforum. When the link you provided is clicked, you end up at the topic page of 'Classic Menwear', (a misnomer if ever I heard one).

Indeed it has. Incidentally, Robert , to tag someone don't put a space after the @ sign.

 

[Robert]

Great. Thanks for the tip.

 

[Grand Potentate]

Any time.

Seems that Allen's Inkjet thread got axed. Allen Smithee care to start that back up here?

 

[ConchitaWurst]

You guys seen what was posted overnight in the OFFICIAL PASSAGGIO AFFILIATE thread?

It appears Gianni probably counts in dog years.

Funny picture was spot on!

Will try to edit my posts here so it will be exactly the same as the post that was axed on the other forvm. Got it saved.

Bit of a busy weekend though.

 

[Grand Potentate]

I like how he's just typing his bullshit in all caps now, as if that somehow reinforces his points:

VERY VINTAGE FABRICS, PRINTED BY HAND

 

[Grand Potentate]

Holy LOL

post #1731 of 1737
5/17/14 at 4:51pm

• 

• agjiffy
• 
  • Posts: 487
  • Joined: 2/2011

• 
  Great point, Coxsackie. Setting aside all of the pictures and stories and expert opinion. and facts, where is the proof? English isn't Gianni's first language, so maybe by "vintage" he meant "brand new" and maybe by "dandy" he meant "not vintage". Where is the proof that those things aren't true?

Seriously???

 

[ConchitaWurst]

No! Poast
It here
Plz!

 

[ConchitaWurst]

Got it )

 

[Robert]

Shit looking moustache.

 

[Thruth]

I am glad Conchitawurst reconstructed the post from the now banned inkjet thread on SF. I think it is a valuable record that documents some valid concerns that have gone unanswered.

Interesting that the thread was deleted and Allen Smithee banned yet C&A only had his posts deleted.

Gianni has told me my ties are all vintage yet the several prints I have all have the bleached white backside that if some of the experts are to be believed identifies and inkjet print.

Is the motivation for allowing Gianni to continue linked to his affiliate vendor status? Surely there is enough circumstantial evidence in Conchitawurst's and C&A's postings to enable the mods to fact check and confirm. Questions posted regarding this in the Transparent Mod thread have not been answered.

Most of the SF debate has been on the vintage/inkjet aspect while the missing Cappelli fabric angle is strangely absent. Curious, no?

If Cappelli determined which employee stole the fabric and if said employee implicated Gianni, why hasn't Cappelli done more? Did he just let it slide for whatever reason other than informing those within his circle of acquaintances and customers as to what happened?

Maybe a more complete discussion can happen here.

 

[Sartodi Napoli]

As I always say, you cant trust tackys. His mad eyes are scaring.

From the truope/gang of Crap tom, another bribed tacky infiltrated on this business, seems time to kick out those impersonators.


There was upon a time a degenerate tacky offended real arthisans by saying vintage was always better.He was caught selling modern digital reproductions, what a paradox.He bribed all his degenerated and classic dressing code profanators as the rats of Hamelin to follow him to do his usual ridicule on Pittis door.The bribeds on red overarmoured jackets, orange shirts, yellow skinny trousers and purple overcoats with asymmetrical pockets and no socks insulted, menaced and supported crime all around and tried to degenerate the society as they already were.All this rated before as category B plus A and C at this time Belcebu's infrabeasts were beaten up and exorcizated, Devils goblins were destroyed with Aqua Bendita and showing them true elegance by Crusader fighters on navy suits, white shirts and navy woven ties.The horsemen of Wall Street true classic elegance won the empire of evil and degeneration with true elegance and drawing the Sword of Thruth.Devil goblins still alive run as cowards to his Pitti land to continue doing the social evil and the deepest ridicule.The Evil fraud was extinguised and elegance and true values reigned forever but that is another history.Share

 

[Sartodi Napoli]

WANTED;

FOR CRIMES AGAINST SOCIETY, ALLEGUED SCAMMER, TACKY, DEGENERATE.

ALIVE OR BEATEN UP,

REWARD, 100000000000000 ITALIAN LIRAS

GIANNI LECTER, MAD EYES, HABITUAL SCAMMER, Mafiosi gang of bribed tackys ALONG the other scammer of Gentlemans gazzete, other ignorant pretentious tacky all Italy makes jokes about.

STAY AWAY, HE MIGHT EAT YOU ALIVE

https://www.facebook.com/gianni.cerutti.1/photos

 

[Grand Potentate]

Is the motivation for allowing Gianni to continue linked to his affiliate vendor status?

YES!

I honestly cannot believe this is still in question

 

[ConchitaWurst]

Most of the SF debate has been on the vintage/inkjet aspect while the missing Cappelli fabric angle is strangely absent. Curious, no?

If Cappelli determined which employee stole the fabric and if said employee implicated Gianni, why hasn't Cappelli done more? Did he just let it slide for whatever reason other than informing those within his circle of acquaintances and customers as to what happened?

Maybe a more complete discussion can happen here.

I think this would be a very good place to do so.

From what I understand Patrizio let it slide since he got rid of the main problem and the amount taken was relatively small. The main accomplice who stole from him was fired and Gianni Cerutti was only the enabler.

 

[Thruth]

YES!

I honestly cannot believe this is still in question

It seems so ludicrous, which is why I asked it. Not knowing how much the affiliates pay SF, my first thought was that it wasn't worth it but every penny counts I guess. Still, even when poor English is accounted for, there appears to be something shady going on, no?

At least a reasonable person would respond to the accusations directly.

 

[Thruth]

I think this would be a very good place to do so.

From what I understand Patrizio let it slide since he got rid of the main problem and the amount taken was relatively small. The main accomplice who stole from him was fired and Gianni Cerutti was only the enabler.

This is reasonable I suppose. Patricio got rid of the rat in his workshop. But the larger issue is that if this is known to be true, and in fact could be confirmed through SF members, then Gianni would have some answering to do. I think back to the Ambrosi/Foo intervention when members got involved. That was a personal issue but this is much larger and more serious. I have always questioned the motivation of many on SF: opportunists selling their wares, their shills both overtly and covertly supporting their business model but allowing someone to allegedly continue to sell stolen property and misrepresented products is beyond understanding.

 

[ConchitaWurst]

There are other SF members who have been told the same story by Patrizio.

I was told some time ago - in a conversation unrelated to the matter at hand - that affiliate vendor status is us$ 600 per month. Guess there may be various levels though and guess that this was the entry level fee.

 

[Thruth]

Gentlemen, I appreciate the dialogue. More has been said in these few posts than over on the other side.

fassbinder, I agree with your thought on keeping traffic flowing. The absence of old guard members voicing any kind of opinion is just sad.

ConchitaWurst , even more saddening if there are other SF members in the know who are remaining silent.

 

[Thruth]

I wonder if Maestro Bestetti is aware of this mess? Gianni likes to tell people how close they are.

Any sense of how other tailors and artisans in Napoli feel about this? Is it a well known fact or just in some circles?

 

[ConchitaWurst]

I'm waiting for the full investigative article on everything that happened. hopefully it won't be in some magazine that I have to purchase.

would you think simon cromptom would be a suitable writer for such article? he already had some experience with gianni http://www.permanentstyle.co.uk/tag/passaggio-cravatte , and should be aware of the potential issues and concerns voiced recently, being mentioned here on the other forvm http://www.styleforum.net/t/364005/passaggio-cravatte-official-affiliate-thread/1710_30#post_7142205 by a fellow menswear blogger. he may in fact be on top of the issue , i heard he (or one of his colleagues at therakeonline) is still holding a repsonse to this article in moderation in which mention is made about the recent controversy http://therakeonline.com/arbiter-me...ggio-cravatte-to-hold-bespoke-show-in-london/.

 

[MFDoom]

So, some investigative work (by other members, ahem) turned up the following similar colorways that Gianni has been offering. Either he found the motherlode of all fabric troves, or he's not being honest. (SHOCKED I TELL YOU)

see below

 

[MFDoom]

and some more of the shots

 

[Allen Smithee]

on several of these where two colors are simply reversed to make a different color scheme, I get the mental picture of the fancy cloth printer just being stopped mid-run and somebody swapping a pair of ink cartridges. I have no idea if that is possible, but I don't doubt that this type of laziness is easier now.

 

[Russell Street]

Does anyone know where this "thirst"(y) vintage thing came from?

+1 Does this meant that the fabric sucked up a lot of dye, that the colors are saturated? Or is this some other crazy typo/phoneticization?

 

[ConchitaWurst]

It''s pretty simple actually.

If you type "sete" google translate will translate it into "thirst"

https://translate.google.com/#it/en/sete

I have even more enjoyed this one though. It is about Gianni Cerutti's favorite tailor:

[...]
This is because it is not enough to cut and sew fabric hand . Otherwise they would be able to everyone. Instead Pirozzi is able to convey a touch of genius that makes each piece special. And when I'm down the street with his dress often people turn around. I say this because often Apita .

Then his two breasts are the most beautiful I've ever seen in my life . They make you feel like a king even when you're not !

To understand what I'm saying I want to show pictures of my double realize that I have done recently.

http://www.styleforum.net/t/365000/new-tailor-bespoke-naples/0_30#post_6648171

 

[Russell Street]

It''s pretty simple actually.

If you type "sete" google translate will translate it into "thirst"

https://translate.google.com/#it/en/sete

Wait, he's trying to say 'silk'?
http://translation.babylon.com/italian/to-english/sete/

I was told some time ago - in a conversation unrelated to the matter at hand - that affiliate vendor status is us$ 600 per month.

It amuses me greatly that sum translates closely to thirty ounces of silver in the current market.

 

[MFDoom]

I have to say I've been chuckling at the thumping that Gianni has taken today.

 

[MFDoom]

^ and said opinion would be...? (I'm not going to vaporize you if you disagree, I'm just curious whether you find the evidence as compelling as I find it)

 

[Russell Street]

My word! Oh, how you have shown me the light.

Thanks, I appreciate being able to draw my own conclusions in what would seem to be a pile of shite. All I wanted was an opportunity to read everyone's perspective to formulate my own opinion...

Although it is sad that an open conversation is apparently impossible elsewhere, I am very glad that this forum remains open for such discourse and that people are finding it.

^ and said opinion would be...? (I'm not going to vaporize you if you disagree, I'm just curious whether you find the evidence as compelling as I find it)

If I haven't made it clear, I think that we have several independent testimonies from people with little or nothing to gain and some pretty irrefutable hard evidence. Prima facie burden of proof has been met, and no defense offered.

 

[MFDoom]

I am of the opinion that all is not as it should be.

I am a reasonable man, open minded and fair; above all else I treat others as I wish to be treated.

I have not lied to anyone nor have I misled anyone, so why should I be subjected to this self-same treatment?

I feel very let down, I'm disappointed to say.

fair and reasonable words.

 

[Russell Street]

Has Gianni offered any defense beyond "Neapolitan business (except me!) is dirty and dishonest and look at this photo of beautiful thirst printed by hand many decades ago!" I have yet to see anything.

 

[Sartodi Napoli]

Just being with one of the pioneers of English silk on Naples. He is respected even for Pitti doors weirdos or tacky photographers as Guerreisms.He said Gianni e un froccione che non capisce niente, un cretino i un truffatore, lo hanno cancelato dil.mio facebook per cretino. vende cravatte di brutta qualita.He is a .... who has any idea, a cretin and a scammer. He sells ties of bad quality. See his roll is cheaply made even his silks were real or not. I blocked him from.facebook for cretin he said. My friend sells for 105 with beautiful roll, this scammer for 205.He has any interest in bashing others as he is closing and moving to France soon. I am buying most of his silks.Confirmed, he said white silk is chinesse never made by hand by corrosion process so it l will leaks the other side. ink jet 200% How can i send you a video as promised?You can't trust tackys. When are you kicking out this cretin? i told you he was hated by half Naples and the other half don't like tacky degenerates over here.

 

[Grand Potentate]

COME TO THE TRUNK SHOW TO SEE ALL OF MY THIRSTY WARES! YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BUY POWER. SO UNDERSTAND IF YOU ARE A CROOK OR NOT.