Politics and menswear

FriendCustomer said:
Hardly an expert on this subject but here are some thoughts:

Well there were many politicians who use/used French tailors. Today it would certainly be hard wearing British bespoke and running for office, but this is also probably the case in the UK and the rest of the world. Wearing any bespoke today probably isn't advisable. Today François Fillon still wears Arnys bespoke, but most probably wear industrial mtm (from french brands made in italy) or RTW.

But why did some French politicians prefer British tailors. Well for most of the 20th century serious men's dress was dominated by le style anglais. The Brits invented it and they had the most famous tailors (and best tissue). It was a style that was sober, dignified and elegant. The French were hardly the only ones enamoured with it. Even today certain Nothern Italian noble familys are still dressed by Poole. But for the most part those days are over.

Also worth noting is that both Poole and Caraceni (the two foreign tailors mentioned above) had outposts in Paris at one time (like Cifo who were originally a Roman based tailor). Even though both of their Paris outposts closed they had a long history of serving French clients right up until this day. Anyway Camps was Spanish and De Luca was italian. France has always been traditionally been a mecca for female style and fashion. The french bespoke style which we now associate with Africans and Middle Easteners was always probably always looked at as a more showbiz and more flash style than Savile Row. The price had nothing to do with politicians not wearing it.

One French tailor rarely mentioned which probably dressed more french politicians than any other (including de Gaulle) Stark and Sons, was known as the "tailleur de la Republic", has an english name and an english style, no funny shoulders or fish mouths, strict british style bespoke. The business was recently bought by Camps after the third generation died.
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Excellent research! What would we do without you?
 
FriendCustomer said:
Funny, must be a thing with all Poole clients. I guess the goatee is optional. :rofl:Both Giscard (3rd guy) and Balladur (4th guy) were/are clients. While Giscard looks like more standard English Poole for the era, Balladur's Poole is the most French looking Poole I have ever seen. Regardless Balladur is impeccable, the height of restrained elegance for a politician.

Mitterand was a Cifo client. Clearly more elegant than what they do today but still noticibly French in the shoulders.

Chirac was a caraceni client at some point, maybe he used others too, I don't know. But he always sort looked like a pimp or gangsta. All top style.
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I'm practically a lantern jaw compared to these Bashar Al Assad impersonators! Though I have to confess to a strong turkey neck game in my Fat Elvis days. David Gandy is the only goatee wearer I can think of of the current Poole lot though.

I've seen Giscard in the archives at Poole. His stuff is noticeably Poole in the shoulder and chest. Balladur I never in a million years would have guessed as was wearing Poole. Totally different looking. I have actually seen Poole cover a whole range of structure recently though, which has pleasantly surprised me. I just got a coat 1/4 lined linen, and honestly, other than the skirt you'd be hard pressed to tell it apart from a lot of the neapolitan stuff. On the other end, the DJ I just got is really built up, much more than my typical suits and jackets. So they are a lot more flexible and able to build to purpose than I had thought, which is good.

Other Frog Poole clients.

Jean Cocteau

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The granddaddy of them all, de Gaulle

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doghouse said:
I'm practically a lantern jaw compared to these Bashar Al Assad impersonators! Though I have to confess to a strong turkey neck game in my Fat Elvis days. David Gandy is the only goatee wearer I can think of of the current Poole lot though.

I've seen Giscard in the archives at Poole. His stuff is noticeably Poole in the shoulder and chest. Balladur I never in a million years would have guessed as was wearing Poole. Totally different looking. I have actually seen Poole cover a whole range of structure recently though, which has pleasantly surprised me. I just got a coat 1/4 lined linen, and honestly, other than the skirt you'd be hard pressed to tell it apart from a lot of the neapolitan stuff. On the other end, the DJ I just got is really built up, much more than my typical suits and jackets. So they are a lot more flexible and able to build to purpose than I had thought, which is good.

Other Frog Poole clients.

Jean Cocteau

jean-cocteau.jpg


The granddaddy of them all, de Gaulle

president-of-france-general-charles-de-gaulle-picture-id50563030
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Both top Frogs. Napolean III also Poole. Very long history with the French. I believe de Gaulle had to switch to Stark at some point for exactly the political reasons Monkey was alluding to. Sucks for him.

Balladur I can't believe it either. Especially the SB suit shoulders, chest and lapels look completely French but it is common knowledge in France, he is a lifelong Poole's man. Please inquire with your sources the reasoning behind the style of his suits.
 
FriendCustomer said:
Both top Frogs. Napolean III also Poole. Very long history with the French. I believe de Gaulle had to switch to Stark at some point for exactly the political reasons Monkey was alluding to. Sucks for him.

Balladur I can't believe it either. Especially the SB suit shoulders, chest and lapels look completely French but it is common knowledge in France, he is a lifelong Poole's man. Please inquire with your sources the reasoning behind the style of his suits.
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I will see my sources next Wednesday actually, will report back for all.

Napoleon the Triple definitely top top Poole man, almost forgot. You are most correct about the mutual affinity of the French and Poole, it was their first outpost before the transatlantic special relationship.
 
doghouse said:
I'm practically a lantern jaw compared to these Bashar Al Assad impersonators! Though I have to confess to a strong turkey neck game in my Fat Elvis days. David Gandy is the only goatee wearer I can think of of the current Poole lot though.

I've seen Giscard in the archives at Poole. His stuff is noticeably Poole in the shoulder and chest. Balladur I never in a million years would have guessed as was wearing Poole. Totally different looking. I have actually seen Poole cover a whole range of structure recently though, which has pleasantly surprised me. I just got a coat 1/4 lined linen, and honestly, other than the skirt you'd be hard pressed to tell it apart from a lot of the neapolitan stuff. On the other end, the DJ I just got is really built up, much more than my typical suits and jackets. So they are a lot more flexible and able to build to purpose than I had thought, which is good.

Other Frog Poole clients.

Jean Cocteau

jean-cocteau.jpg


The granddaddy of them all, de Gaulle

president-of-france-general-charles-de-gaulle-picture-id50563030
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Why are you depriving us of pictures of your new coats? You don't have to include your weak chin if you don't want to..
 
FriendCustomer said:
Both top Frogs. Napolean III also Poole. Very long history with the French. I believe de Gaulle had to switch to Stark at some point for exactly the political reasons Monkey was alluding to. Sucks for him.

Balladur I can't believe it either. Especially the SB suit shoulders, chest and lapels look completely French but it is common knowledge in France, he is a lifelong Poole's man. Please inquire with your sources the reasoning behind the style of his suits.
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Which tailor is your Rutte using?
 
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Salt and pepper herringbone game: strong. And that may well be the first time an iGent combined a "chambray shirt" with a tweed jacket.
 
Single greatest American statesman that any of us have been alive for. John Warner.

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FriendCustomer said:
Sorry this has absolutely nothing to do with the Ivy League look, nothing. This is broad shoulders Hollywood of the 40s 50s. If you want to see a politician dressed in the ivy look Please see how his Vice President George H W Bush dressed most of his life.
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The Ivy League look is not exclusively about the structure of the shoulders. It is minimally also about combining certain items of clothing. Tweed jacket, button-down collar shirt, and a v-neck sweater (or sweater vest) is essential Ivy. That everyone without exception wore coats with natural shoulders in the heyday of campus style is a myth created and propagated by the interwebz.
 
viaattovannucci said:
The Ivy League look is not exclusively about the structure of the shoulders.
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this is true, but the natural shoulder is the defining element of the ivy look. But lets look at some of the other elements of the style : look at size of his lapels, the shape of the lapel notches, look at the grease in his hair. none of this is ivy. too bad we also can't look at the pleats in his pants, the number and roll of his buttons, the darts in his coat and the vents (or most certainly the lack thereof) in the back of his jacket. anyway his clothing is pure 50s hollywood, nothing to do with Ivy League natural shoulder look, nothing.


viaattovannucci said:
Tweed jacket, button-down collar shirt, and a v-neck sweater (or sweater vest) is essential Ivy.
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but he is not wearing a button down collar. there is no roll or softness to his collar in the pic. sorry a tweed jacket, shirt, tie and v neck, could also be called British country style. but it is neither, it is just a man wearing a shirt, sweater and tie. nothing defines this look as ivy league any more so than any other relaxed winter country style. so while this look may be essential to ivy, it is just as essential to many other styles worn by the well dressed man in the winter.

viaattovannucci said:
That everyone without exception wore coats with natural shoulders in the heyday of campus style is a myth created and propagated by the interwebz.
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i could not agree with you more. Not everyone during the heyday of campus style wore ivy league clothes. Ironically it is you who is propagating this myth by describing Reagan's style as ivy league. In fact you may be the first person on ther interweb or in real life that ever referred to reagans style as Ivy league. Reagan never really dressed that way and certainly not in that picture. During what you believe to be the heyday of campus style (I would say the heyday is actually the early to mid 60s ), Reagan is wearing something very different. The fact he has a, tweed, V kneck sweater and tie is just as much Apparel Arts 30s or British country style or how i was dressed last friday, as it is Ivy League style.

But believe what you want.
 
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FriendCustomer said:
this is true, but the natural shoulder is the defining element of the ivy look. But lets look at some of the other elements of the style : look at size of his lapels, the shape of the lapel notches, look at the grease in his hair. none of this is ivy. too bad we also can't look at the pleats in his pants, the number and roll of his buttons, the darts in his coat and the vents (or most certainly the lack thereof) in the back of his jacket. anyway his clothing is pure 50s hollywood, nothing to do with Ivy League natural shoulder look, nothing.




but he is not wearing a button down collar. there is no roll or softness to his collar in the pic. sorry a tweed jacket, shirt, tie and v neck, could also be called British country style. but it is neither, it is just a man wearing a shirt, sweater and tie. nothing defines this look as ivy league any more so than any other relaxed winter country style. so while this look may be essential to ivy, it is just as essential to many other styles worn by the well dressed man in the winter.



i could not agree with you more. Not everyone during the heyday of campus style wore ivy league clothes. Ironically it is you who is propagating this myth by describing Reagan's style as ivy league. In fact you may be the first person on ther interweb or in real life that ever referred to reagans style as Ivy league. Reagan never really dressed that way and certainly not in that picture. During what you believe to be the heyday of campus style (I would say the heyday is actually the early to mid 60s ), Reagan is wearing something very different. The fact he has a, tweed, V kneck sweater and tie is just as much Apparel Arts 30s or British country style or how i was dressed last friday, as it is Ivy League style.

But believe what you want.
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I have to side with FriendCustomer FriendCustomer here and nix the ivy/trad angle. My half-hearted desktop research tells me Reagan's tailor from early in his Hollywood days was Albert Mariani (and later his son Frank) of Mariani & Davis.

Poster for a Mariani-designed suit for George Raft. Shetland tissue
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Other Reagan-Tweedy-not-Ivy looks

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Not-Ivy shaking hands with Ivy
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FriendCustomer said:
i could not agree with you more. Not everyone during the heyday of campus style wore ivy league clothes. Ironically it is you who is propagating this myth by describing Reagan's style as ivy league. In fact you may be the first person on ther interweb or in real life that ever referred to reagans style as Ivy league. Reagan never really dressed that way and certainly not in that picture. During what you believe to be the heyday of campus style (I would say the heyday is actually the early to mid 60s ), Reagan is wearing something very different. The fact he has a, tweed, V kneck sweater and tie is just as much Apparel Arts 30s or British country style or how i was dressed last friday, as it is Ivy League style.

But believe what you want.
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Just to clarify: I did not refer to Reagan's style as Ivy League style; I referred to that specific picture as Reagan wearing a certain combination associated with that look. I also did not claim that the picture was dated to "the heyday of campus style," nor am I interested in designating such periods; those (mis)calculations are pure SF-speak and I have no intention to participate in it.

I do not disagree with anything else that you have said. On the point of that picture, from the elements that are visible, I stand by what I have said. Everything else is pure speculation.
 
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