Soliciting advice on how to "write" an unbiased" review" (but not really a review) on a freebie

DWF made a comment about the leather quality in a different thread. The shoes were generally poorly received. The issues I noticed in person were all noticed by the forum folks (so in that regard, mission accomplished). I think the soles handled Seoul pretty damned well. I wish I had had another pair of shoes to compare it to. Seoul really is tough on shoe soles.

Nobody called me a shill yet.

I hope M Andrews takes this as a learning opportunity. He seems like a good guy, and it would be nice to see him get involved with the thread and open up a dialogue. And hey, maybe some suggestions will be implemented. As of yet, all I received from him is "is it me or is this doing more harm than good?" I think he genuinely believes in the quality of his product. He's an enthusiast who started a brand. I don't know how much experience he actually has with the production or design of shoes though. In his promotional video, he mentions products he sees himself competing with; if I recall, most of the products he mentions are ones looked down upon by SF. As mentioned here and elsewhere, what he sells seems to match up, quality wise, with some of those brands, though I doubt those are handlasted.

I'll be in Texas in September and have offered my shoes up for deconstruction with a local cobbler if he thinks there would be any merit in this.

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If you topy a keyboard, does it get fungus?
 
No, but it encloses all the moisture from the hand sweat and slowly makes the entire keyboard deteriorate.
 
DWF has weighed in. And M Andrews isn't returning my PMs. Don't know why he's angry at me...he should be angry with his cordwainer or the tannery his cordwainer sources his leather from.
 
If he's smart, he'll make time to do a PR stop and address continual improvement and turn lemons into lemonade. Yap about how these were early production and all that.
Poor publicity can be spun to advantage by a good company. You'd think a backup plan would have been in place before agreeing to any of this.
 
Maybe he hasn't had time to return you PM's because he was groping shoes @ Nordstrom to see if the leather compresses like his.

Interesting that he specifically references AE & Magnanni out of the entire Nordstrom shoe collection to show that their leathers compress like his. He has stated that AE is well below the standards of his shoes and Santoni is his quality target.

DWF does not give a ringing endorsement of the leather.

M Andrews

Sorry for the delayed participation. I wanted to share this conversation with my cobbler prior to jumping in so that I properly address some of the questions that have been asked. I would like to thank @Claghorn for agreeing to experience and share my shoes in this manner.

I'm going to start with the quality of the leather. The leather that is sourced for the production of these shoes is an Italian baby calfskin, hand selected by my cobbler "primarily" for it's soft and supple texture. Contrary to what has been suggested our leather is of excellent quality, very soft and pliable, and very durable. Pressing down on the vamp of almost any shoe will create the effect that is pictured in this thread. I actually visited Nordstrom yesterday and was able to reproduce this effect on virtually every pair of dress shoes in their selection including Allen Edmonds and Magnanni. Also, please consider that our leather must have certain properties, unique to my cobblers preference, in order to best accommodate the process he uses to hand color and finish our shoes.

I will agree that our styling can be considered forward for those who prefer traditional brands and lasts. I am a young professional and wanted to create a product that would appeal to those of similar taste while being non offensive and in a "gray" zone for those who are more conservative. My styling is comparable to brands such as Santoni or Berluti while purposely being different from brands such as Alden, Crockett and Jones, etc.

We use the Blake construction method for obvious reasons. Our shoes are designed with a sleek silhouette that is flexible and comfortable out of the box, while at the same time providing superior stability that will last and can be resoled with the same ease as a Goodyear welt.

DWF:
make it a point to not criticize other makers directly. I am going to try to abide by that in the following remarks.

As mentioned, a "cobbler" is a shoe repairman...not a shoemaker. Not having the experience or skill to make shoes, a cobbler is not qualified to judge the quality of leather or its suitability for making shoes.

As a shoemaker...a cordwainer...I shy away from leathers that are too soft and incoherent in the fiber mat. Such leathers may be top notch, for some purposes, and very soft and supple, but they are not suitable for making shoes, in my professional opinion.

The photo above indicates that the grain surface of the leather over the joint is moving under the thumb at a different rate than the corium. Typically we only see that in leather that has been cut from the belly or far up in the shoulder. Again...as mentioned in the Leather Quality thread...manufacturers are forced by their own priorities to sometimes use what would ordinarily be called "offal" in places where only prime should be considered.

I suspect tannage has an effect but if the leather behaves...or "tells"...like offal the tannage is an unhappy one.

And the grain scars and blems, shown in the photos above, only reinforce the suspicion that the leather in question is not prime or suitable for making anything but the most "ordinary" shoes.

We can comment ...and disagree...about whether the leather is good quality or not, but the results speak for themselves. This thread wouldn't exist if the leather was breaking-in normally or attractively.
 
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It really would be great if he turned this around PR-wise. It would be damn impressive, though not that hard, and great to watch.
 
I don't care one way or another but what he says colours how the thread progresses.
 
I am liking this:

What a way to kill a review thread. When Clag decided to abstain from giving an actually review (or really feedback for that matter), he left the reviewing to us, with just pictures to draw our conclusions on. Now, instead of an affiliate quietly taking notes, and possible addressing or questioning his product based on the feedback. The affiliate has stepped into the fray to simply defend his product, while disregarding the feedback being given, professional or otherwise.
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Also, I am thinking the thread was successful. I managed to fairly convey the quality of the shoes without actually saying anything about them. However, I think such a format is inherently biased against the product as it's much easier to notice what's wrong than it is to notice what's right (the absence of what's wrong).
 
Chorn said:
I am liking this:



Also, I am thinking the thread was successful. I managed to fairly convey the quality of the shoes without actually saying anything about them. However, I think such a format is inherently biased against the product as it's much easier to notice what's wrong than it is to notice what's right (the absence of what's wrong).
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Well, to be fair, what did this person expect the shoe guy to do? Just sit back and say "Ok, this model's a piece of shit. Better scrap all this hard work and throw it all out now."
 
The only real test is how well they wear after say 6 - 12 months. (comfort, fit, broken leather, polish, scratches etc)

And perhaps repair, seeing the "entrepreneur" bought it up himself. Just on that Blake doesn't repair all that well. Blake Rapid is perhaps better for that.

After wear, as noted above, the rest is pretty subjective and a personal preference. I think they are fugly but even more interesting is why did our man choose SF to expose himself. A brief glance by anyone with beady eyes and a small brain, most SF users, would see that they are far far from the idealised groupthink SF shoe and price point. And therefore SF isn't the market.

Judging by what is on the street and online "fashion" blogs/tumblr etc theres probably a market out there but its not forumites.
 
I guess it's hard to assess what kind of stuff's popular on SF without having been a member of the forum for a while. It seems like this guy actually believes he's making a quality shoe. Tough break. As you said, there are better places to market his shoes. He probably won't be around on SF for long if he's not heeding the critique and actually tries to change his way of producing shoes/sourcing material.
 
I expressed worry early on that they would be of low quality and that I'd have to take steps to show this photographically--he assured me that unless I routinely wore JL or EG, I'd be impressed.

So yeah, he legit thinks his shoes are on par with those. Or at least well above AE and above C&J. Also, he hasn't returned any messages, even the one where I offered to have my pair taken apart.
 
Despite his agreement with your approach he seems to think the response would have been positive and did not prepare for negative responses.

He is a true believer in his product, which is a bit scary if you think about it. It would be interesting to find out he became an expert. He has owned many fine shoes according to him. This does not an expert make. So who did he put his faith in to guide him? His cordwainer (cobbler as described by him)? If so, how did your shoes with the leather flaws pass QC? Is he relying on the factory? Blind faith?

When you come out of the blue and charge a price of almost 50% less than your target shoe and say the quality is the same, you should damn well make sure that is the case.

The other incongruent thing here is his assertion that leather was chosen to do well with the patination process yet higher quality shoe makers do the same yet ostensibly have better leather? So where is the disconnect here?

Is it hype? Does he believe his own hype?
 
I think he agreed with my approach BECAUSE he's a true believer.

I feel a bit sorry for him. I do hope he considers taking these issues up with his cordwainer as perhaps he's getting ripped off. It doesn't seem like he's ripping off his customers (e.g. paying 100 dollars for those shoes and selling them for 500).

If I don't hear back from him, I won't take the shoes apart (why bother? This would have been worthwhile had everything been great), but maybe I could send a shoe to a leather expert and he could provide something constructive for him to take to his cordwainer.
 
You're a really decent fella Clags, in actually trying to do this objectively while also giving the AV a chance to have his say. Too bad he doesn't seem to grasp what a good opportunity this is to get good feedback for improving his shoes. He could still sell the stuff he's got in other places than SF (where people may be more into the design of the shoes than the construction/materials) and then start up a new batch based on feedback.
 
It seems if you link a product to an AV and try the objective review amongst iGents then there is critical evaluation. But what AV wants that!

It would be interesting to see an AV take the suggestions to heart as if it were a Beta test to refine something that was almost ready to go?

I am not saying SF is the be all and end all of things sartorial but certain key comments could refine the second generation of shoes as EFV said.

Maybe Chorn Chorn should have done a masked test, leaving out the name. Then the info could have been collected without having to defend.

In the search for sartorial value, iGents jump on vendors and products. Look at Meermin, Septieme Largeur, Markowski etc. why did they have early uptake? GYW shoes at "bargain prices" + better aesthetics than AE. Meermin was not evaluated until people wore them and they fell apart. But then again, these companies did not target SF as M. Andrews did. Nor did they make bold statements and direct comparisons to a particular brand. That can be a recipe for failure. Why compare yourself to the "other guy"?

EFV, in terms of your upcoming line(s), have you done consumer/focus group/expert evaluation and feedback?
 
Aye. Maybe I should have. Though it got some pretty poor reviews in the leather quality thread before anyone knew where it was from.

I messaged M Andrews again to ask if he wanted me to send along one of the shoes to a leather expert to provide some feedback. But no word from him on that unfortunately.

I consider the experiment a success. If I am ever asked to review a pair of shoes again (unlikely given how well that went for the provider...though it would have been wonderful if he had salvaged the situation), I'd probably follow the same strategy.
 
i agree that the strategy made sense and the outcome was valid. you know, in retrospect, M Andrews was kind of a blowhard and quickly assumed a defensive posture when he was first introduced and people reacted to his bravado about his shoes. so i guess we should not be surprised that he acted the way he did in response to comments in your review thread
 
thruth said:
It seems if you link a product to an AV and try the objective review amongst iGents then there is critical evaluation. But what AV wants that!

It would be interesting to see an AV take the suggestions to heart as if it were a Beta test to refine something that was almost ready to go?

I am not saying SF is the be all and end all of things sartorial but certain key comments could refine the second generation of shoes as EFV said.

Maybe Chorn Chorn should have done a masked test, leaving out the name. Then the info could have been collected without having to defend.

In the search for sartorial value, iGents jump on vendors and products. Look at Meermin, Septieme Largeur, Markowski etc. why did they have early uptake? GYW shoes at "bargain prices" + better aesthetics than AE. Meermin was not evaluated until people wore them and they fell apart. But then again, these companies did not target SF as M. Andrews did. Nor did they make bold statements and direct comparisons to a particular brand. That can be a recipe for failure. Why compare yourself to the "other guy"?

EFV, in terms of your upcoming line(s), have you done consumer/focus group/expert evaluation and feedback?
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Rambo said:
EFV is making clothes?
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Yup, me and a friend started up an on-line vintage shop 5 years ago and decided to also do our own line of clothes. He's more of an SWD guy, so it's kinda mixed up. We've done local focus groups and the response was really good. I really like the stuff we're doing, but since the influences are mixed I don't think we will target the typical SF dude right off the bat. We're doing this on a very small budget, so it's a limited number of garments. We're focusing on design, doing a Swedish take on CM, i.e. very simplistic and subdued.

We'll launch a web shop in August, but you can already look at the rest of the website: http://www.e-f-v.com

Next year we will do a lot more classic cut garments (and hopefully accessories).
 
EFV said:
Yup, me and a friend started up an on-line vintage shop 5 years ago and decided to also do our own line of clothes. He's more of an SWD guy, so it's kinda mixed up. We've done local focus groups and the response was really good. I really like the stuff we're doing, but since the influences are mixed I don't think we will target the typical SF dude right off the bat. We're doing this on a very small budget, so it's a limited number of garments. We're focusing on design, doing a Swedish take on CM, i.e. very simplistic and subdued.

We'll launch a web shop in August, but you can already look at the rest of the website: http://www.e-f-v.com

Next year we will do a lot more classic cut garments (and hopefully accessories).
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Why don't we have a thread about this?
 
thruth said:
Good idea. Would be very interesting to get the lowdown on starting, creating and marketing the products
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It would be fun, but ATM I'm tired as hell whenever I'm not working, so I don't know if I'd do a good job of following up on such a thread.
 
Shoe is on a boat crossing the Pacific. And guy never got back to me. Sent him another offer a while back to either send the shoe off to be deconstructed or send it to a leather expert so that he could have some solid information when he complains about his product to his supplier.
 
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