The knitwear thread

The BIG daddy

Someone eventually bought the finest and most exclusive jumper in existence, a vintage Ballantyne vicuna. It was on
sale for a mere $900 U.S. Loro Piana sell vicuna jumpers for far more $$$$ and would be lower quality imo, and certainly far less substantial. Unfortunately a touch too big for me around the waist and chest area so l had to pass.

A ballantyne vicuna jumper would be a total dream because one would have the best of the best in existence and old world luxury. See...that's the thing, vintage Ballantyne is old world luxury before the democratization of luxury to the masses ruined everything. See...those were the days when no-one had credit cards and not many were able to own cashmere and vicuna....old world luxury to the few, companies focused on a really high quality product and not marketing to the masses. See...when l wear Ballantyne l want to celebrate the craftsmanship and the old world luxury that is becoming forgotten, and I want to make the day in my life and experience an event. I want to celebrate quality and not labels and marketing.

Ballantyne vintage vicuna. The label indicates it is between 1950's - 60's, but the N.Peal label uses 1970's colouring label,so quite confusing, but l am guessing a 1960's.
View attachment 25306 View attachment 25307View attachment 25308
I'll never forgive myself for missing out on this!
 
What do you chaps think about cotton jumpers?

Sucks!

Neither fish nor fowl. Some form of wool for winter and linen (or no-knit for summer). YMMV

Little to no texture.

Often loses its shape and comes loose.


Ipso facto, not durable.

Very heavy for the equivalent warmth.
 
Last edited:

I like them, on the basis they're not too hot. The Brooks Brothers ones are ideal, if you want maximum wearing capacity beyond a couple of months each year. They haven't got the texture, but they have wearability in terms of season coverage in abundance.
 
I like cotton jumpers too. They're usually cheap and useful enough to wear at home in cold flats here in spring/autumn, or over a shirt in summer evenings.

I agree with QuandoDio that they're never very durable, but neither are my wool jumpers because everywhere I live here has had a terrible moth problem, no matter what I do...
 
I come from a long line of sheep shaggers farmers. If it isn’t merino, it isn’t a jumper.
 
I would have a terrible fear of moths if I paid that much for a jumper.

Keeping away moths (tips)

1). Keep knitwear clean. If you spill anything on it clean it off straight away. If you spill too much stuff, wash it ASAP.
2). Put soap and cedar wood panels in your draws (helps, but not fool proof if knitwear is dirty).
3). Put your knitwear in plastic bags and freeze for 3 days every 3 months (kills any moth larvae)

Any dust on knitwear can cause problems, so regular freezing is best.

Knitwear is like shoos, only the best will do.

I come from a long line of sheep shaggers farmers. If it isn’t merino, it isn’t a jumper.

Yes, very difficult to get cashmere in Oz. It is very pricey and very rare, and certainly no highend Italian stuff. Johnston of Elgin cashmere starts at $700 at American Tailors. I call J of E the C&J of the knitwear world. I suppose the highend ltalian stuff is the BIG Johnny Lobb of knitwear and the vintage Ballantyne intarsias were the Silvano Lattanzi (the big daddy) of knitwear...largely handmade.

Everyone has lambswool in Oz so l wish to have something different,+ cashmere is more suitable for me.

I am simply amazed at how much cashmere the U.K used to have. You just don't see that in Oz.
 
I like cotton jumpers too. They're usually cheap and useful enough to wear at home in cold flats here in spring/autumn, or over a shirt in summer evenings.

I agree with QuandoDio that they're never very durable, but neither are my wool jumpers because everywhere I live here has had a terrible moth problem, no matter what I do...

If you wear a jumper regularly how many seasons are you going to get out of it: 2 or 3 at the most.

All my good jumpers have very limited use: middle/end of November through to the end of February. Other factors are modern heating which generally is too hot on public transport, work places and houses.

Today I had a grey cotton jumper on, within an hour of being in the office the heat is already too much and it's off. A woollen a jumper and it would have been too hot at the beginning.
 
I have no jumpers. 1 x long sleeve cardigan, 3 x no sleeve cardigans. I hardly ever wear them.
 
I like knitwear for the office - far more comfortable then sitting, working on a jacket. Though most buildings around set the thermostat to One Degree Below Hades, so I don’t really need either.
 
I am going to wear jumpers until spring. Just for the fuck of it. Nothing but roll necks.
 
I have no jumpers. 1 x long sleeve cardigan, 3 x no sleeve cardigans. I hardly ever wear them.

How come you don't wear them?
Don't like the sound of the sleeveless cardigans at all.

I am going to wear jumpers until spring. Just for the fuck of it. Nothing but roll necks.

Music to my ears Truth! I have done the same thing for the last 4 - 5 months, rollnecks with coats everyday. I like the way you do thick rollnecks Truth, very many indeed. You really know how to do it and what it is all about.

The other day l wore a houndstooth coat, rollneck with a BIG hanky in my breast pocket. It looked very sophisticated.

I never used to wear jumpers at one stage in my life (only coats and suits), but now l probably wear them 8 months of the year.

I have decided to collect rollnecks and shoos.

Industry talk -part 5
Professional insight on Scottish v's ltalian v's Chinese cashmere
All of Shibani's cashmere comes from Mongolia and is then dyed and spun in China,Italy and Scotland. Chinese cashmere is the cheapest; Scottish the finest and most expensive. "The quality used in a sweater depends on what the clients wants to pay".

Deluxe - how luxury lost its luster, p374

Dana Thomas

 
Last edited:
My insights into cashmere, and quotes from professionals on why Scottish cashmere is better than ltalian.

Part 1
* some of my brand new ltalian cashmere jumpers pill while others don't.
* the quality of cashmere is as good as it always was, but more difficult to find the good stuff now.
* my thinner ltalian cashmere doesn't pill while my thicker one does pill (opposite to what some igents claim).

Part 2
* the ltalian cashmere knitters seem to cut corners. Why?

section a
All of Shibani's cashmere comes from Mongolia and is then dyed and spun in China, Italy and Scotland. Chinese cashmere is the cheapest; Scottish the finest and most expensive.

and

section b
“Other cashmere companies—such as Malo, Loro Piana, and Brunello Cucinelli—try to duplicate the look of a hand-knit sweater, but they do it with machines because they need the mass quantity to be profitable,” explains Tom Harkness, Ballantyne’s Scotland-based chief operating officer". "Unlike many of its competitors, Ballantyne attaches the sweaters’ collars, cuffs, and waistbands by hand". “Some of our most complicated patterns can take even an accomplished knitter such as Richard Hope as many as two days to make,” says Harkness, “and that is only for the front of the sweater” (this does not happen with ltalian intarsia because they are machine knitted).

and

section c
Gauge simply means, how many needles on the machine and thus stitches per inch. Run the hand behind the sweater and see if it has a loose open stitch. If you have lesser quality cashmere sweater, sometimes the knitter will loosen up on your gauge to get it to appear softer. The traditional Scottish product will be knit flat and tight. It’s made to do distance and will soften with years of wear. The Italians on the other hand like to knit a fluffy, sexy product. It will have an amazing handle (feel) on the selling floor and it’s a more delicate product. It’s the knitwear showdown of Sex Kitten vs. Sturdy Gal.

"Question: What are some good sources for top quality cashmere?

Answer: Who is left?

My comment = Indeed, who is a true highend maker of knitwear these days!

Shibani knitting company (section a)
Tom Harkness - Ballantyne (section b)
Caron Slimak is the owner and head of a custom cashmere sweater business, Queen of Cashmere (section c)
 
Music to my ears Truth! I have done the same thing for the last 4 - 5 months, rollnecks with coats everyday. I like the way you do thick rollnecks Truth, very many indeed. You really know how to do it and what it is all about.

The other day l wore a houndstooth coat, rollneck with a BIG hanky in my breast pocket. It looked very sophisticated.

I never used to wear jumpers at one stage in my life (only coats and suits), but now l probably wear them 8 months of the year.

I have decided to collect rollnecks and shoos.


Professional insight on Scottish v's ltalian v's Chinese cashmere
All of Shibani's cashmere comes from Mongolia and is then dyed and spun in China,Italy and Scotland. Chinese cashmere is the cheapest; Scottish the finest and most expensive. "The quality used in a sweater depends on what the clients wants to pay".

Yup Shooey, I've go through phases too and I guess I am in a new jumper phase now that I rarely wear suits and jackets. So I know where you are coming from.

I know you like the fine cashmere but I prefer the hefty & thick ones.

I have to get some more Dachstein wool ones. They are the thickest and warmest I have. I've got the surplus Austrian Army high button up neck ones but there is an American distributor now that stocks the military and civilian models. Easier than ordering from Austria as I did before. They have a roll neck and a military zipper one I'd like
IMG_9596.webp

IMG_9597.webp

IMG_9598.webp

IMG_9599.webp

IMG_9604.webp


I have a couple from Aero Leather Clothing who gets local crafters to knit them. I'd like to get more but their stock is low

Royal Navy pattern
IMG_9605.webp


Harris wool
IMG_9606.webp

IMG_9607.webp

IMG_9608.webp


Donegal wool
IMG_9518.webp


I have one on order from this company to try out a Shetland
IMG_9610.webp
 
How come you don't wear them?
Don't like the sound of the sleeveless cardigans at all.
I don't wear jumpers because they don't suit me - my shape looks weirder than usual with a jumper. Plus - perhaps the biggest reason - is that I get too hot - and you cant regulate temp like with a jacket. And you have to either have a jumper off or on. Nothing in between. And they are a bugger to tale off and on as well.

Sleeveless cardigan is what they were called but others might call them wool vests or waistcoats. They look good done up or open - like dropbear I used to always leave one in the office when I was in the one place. They were handy if it got too cool inside or too hot in a jacket.
 
A bombastic British aristocrat and the Crimean War are to thank for the cardigan’s basic form and name. Wars have often contributed details of dress, perhaps especially those of the mid-to-late 19th century, when technological innovations joined with the needs of various battles to increase clothing production, distribution, and advertising. A colorful example of war’s influence on style comes from the 1859 Battle of Magenta, a particularly bloody battle of the Second Italian War of Independence. In a fanciful confluence of science and revolution, the creators of a lurid pink synthetic dye decided to name the new hue after that gruesome melee the very next year.

The same decade as magenta’s debut, the Crimean War (1853-1856) introduced several long-lasting style components, including the cardigan, as fashion historian Jonathan Walford notes. At the battle of Balaclava a year into the war, amid the high fatalities of his soldiers, the bombastic and vain seventh Earl of Cardigan, James Thomas Brudenell (1797-1868), led the light brigade wearing a waist-length, close-fitting, collarless knitted jacket of Berlin wool or English worsted. Walford points out that knitting was on the rise in the 1850s, and the battle sites were unexpectedly cold. “Like the balaclava — a ski mask, basically, named for the battle — the cardigan was something civilians could knit at home to send off to soldiers.” And so the cardigan first appeared on a different kind of red carpet.

Lord Cardigan’s own career was a bit less illustrious than that of his namesake garment. To many, his military and leadership skills exemplified nothing more than the flaws in the “purchase of commission” system, by which aristocrats bought military rank. One staff officer under the command of another aristocrat who lent his name to a still-extant fashion attribute (Lord Raglan, the one-armed commander whose tailor introduced the particular jacket cut we best know today on Raglan-sleeved sweatshirts) alleged in his memoirs that Lord Cardigan survived the Battle of Balaclava only by abandoning the men fighting under him, about a sixth of whom died.

GettyImages_528942788.jpg

A cardigan in Vogue, circa 1927.
Photo: Charles Sheeler/Conde Nast via Getty Images
Lord Cardigan left his Russian post a little more than a year into the Crimean War, citing ill health. Back in England, he complemented already exaggerated claims of his valor with tall tales of his own. Merchants eager to capitalize on the war sold his pompous account of the charge along with pictures of his likeness. As part of his celebrity, his favored knitted waistcoat gained both fashionability and the appellation “cardigan.”

The cardigan remained popular in Europe and the U.S. throughout the rest of the 19th century, but was still rightly categorized as a jacket, tending to be short, close-fitting, and collarless. Late in the century, a short roll collar, often velvet, was sometimes added. The cardigan got a makeover in the early 20th century, crossing genders in the process. As early as 1908, Vogue borrowed the coat-style knit from menswear and promoted a cardigan-like apparel for women’s use in golfing and tennis as part of the growing craze for sportswear and knits.

Then, in the 1920s, French fashion designer Coco Chanel created the cardigan suit for women, capitalizing on a trend already well under way. Chanel softened the material to jersey, and lengthened it to be worn over a matching skirt — or jumper, as a predecessor of the twin set. By that decade’s end, the casual women’s suit was touted by the New York Times as beneficial for “sub-debutantes,” with fashion experts promising the separates style to be a “boon for a difficult age.”
 
I don't wear jumpers because they don't suit me - my shape looks weirder than usual with a jumper. Plus - perhaps the biggest reason - is that I get too hot - and you cant regulate temp like with a jacket. And you have to either have a jumper off or on. Nothing in between.

All excellent reasons.


fxh said:
And they are a bugger to tale off and on as well.

Tricks to taking off a jumper

I developed a system for taking off a jumper because l have read so many comments about them being hard to take off. My system is very good.

1). lift the bottom half of the jumper until it at chest level
2). lift and roll it over your head until the body part of the jumper is completely off your body and INSIDEOUT
3). peel the sleeves off your arms so the arms of the jumper are INSIDEOUT.

Note a: The arms are always the last thing to take out of a jumper.
Note b: a jumper must always be peeling/rolled off the body so it ends up INSIDEOUT

fxh said:
Sleeveless cardigan is what they were called but others might call them wool vests or waistcoats. They look good done up or open - like dropbear I used to always leave one in the office when I was in the one place. They were handy if it got too cool inside or too hot in a jacket.

Have never felt the need for sleeveless clothes.

O.k...now for a treat.

The Queen

The Queen used to get one Pringle jumper given to her each year. The Queen Mother was a big fan also. Even the Queen would rough it in rtw cashmere cardigans, notice her rolled up sleeves.
Queen cardigan 1.webp Queen cardigan 4.webp
Queen cardigan 5.webp


btw, my cardigans are just like `The Queen's'.
 
Yup Shooey, I've go through phases too and I guess I am in a new jumper phase now that I rarely wear suits and jackets. So I know where you are coming from.

I know you like the fine cashmere but I prefer the hefty & thick ones.

I have to get some more Dachstein wool ones. They are the thickest and warmest I have. I've got the surplus Austrian Army high button up neck ones but there is an American distributor now that stocks the military and civilian models. Easier than ordering from Austria as I did before. They have a roll neck and a military zipper one I'd like
View attachment 25776
View attachment 25777
View attachment 25778
View attachment 25779
View attachment 25784

I have a couple from Aero Leather Clothing who gets local crafters to knit them. I'd like to get more but their stock is low

Royal Navy pattern
View attachment 25785

Harris wool
View attachment 25786
View attachment 25787
View attachment 25788

Donegal wool
View attachment 25789
I have one on order from this company to try out a Shetland
View attachment 25790

Truth, l would love to snag big fat turtlenecks with heft also, but I worry that if l get cheap ones that they might pill badly. I would like to buy cheaper ones, but is the quality there? I don't really want to pay $$$$ for kiton cashmere turtlenecks if l can avoid it.

Truth, please tell me the truth about those cheap chunky turtlenecks, do they pill much? Do they hold up well? Are they very warm?

Btw, l like those hefty turtlenecks very much. They are very manly.



I snagged a 1970's Lyle & Scott lambswool turtleneck. Would have preferred cashmere but I have no choice but to accept lambswool.
 
Truth, l would love to snag big fat turtlenecks with heft also, but I worry that if l get cheap ones that they might pill badly. I would like to buy cheaper ones, but is the quality there? I don't really want to pay $$$$ for kiton cashmere turtlenecks if l can avoid it.

Truth, please tell me the truth about those cheap chunky turtlenecks, do they pill much? Do they hold up well? Are they very warm?

Btw, l like those hefty turtlenecks very much. They are very manly.



I snagged a 1970's Lyle & Scott lambswool turtleneck. Would have preferred cashmere but I have no choice but to accept lambswool.

Cheap compared to Kiton cashmere yes.
The Dachstein are 4-ply wool. Robust. $300 USD which is not cheap for just wool. Pretty bulletproof.

Have had mine for 8 years and no pilling. I don't find that chunkier knits pill as much as finer ones.

The Aero leather are about the same price £175 or $300 USD. Too early to tell as they are only a year old but no pilling

They are a hairier weave and I've not noticed pilling. But you can see they catch all kinds of hay and stuff
IMG_9623.webp
 
Truth, l have checked out all the websites you have mentioned and will say that all your information is simply amazing. I'll have some hefty stuff for next winter, and plenty of great rollnecks. Thanks mate.


btw, l got my various cashmere cardigans this morning and will say that the Paul Stuart was the most impressive of all. Nice and substantial and soft, and even better than the blue 1960's Pringle. I will still say my other 1960's burgundy Pringle is one of the most impressive cashmere pieces l own, truly seductive cashmere and stunning mother-of-pearl buttons. And of cause the 1950's ballantyne cardigan is a work of art.
 
Last edited:
Brunello Cucinelli

One thing l will say is that their cashmere items look the most eye popping and luxurious than any other highend maker of knitwear. Nothing comes close to the luxurious look that brunello cucinelli achieves. It is a brand that is very different, and sometimes it is good to have people go `wow look at that'....they never say it, but you know they think it because the cashmere is eye popping. You can stay in the background with Loro Piana and scottish cashmere, but not with brunello cucinelli, it looks so fancy. Sometimes it is nice to display such a look because it is unusual for knitwear to look so amazing. I love Brunello Cucinelli because it is unique, they are very good at what they do.

I got this turtleneck by brunello cucinelli the other day. 68% virgin wool, 29% cashmere, 3% polyamide.
Brunello Cucinelli  turtleneck.webp
Brunello Cucinelli  turtleneck 1.webp


Also got a second navy cashmere v neck, a 1970's Pringle.
Pringle navy v neck.webp

Notes about my various knitwear
- 1970's Lyle & Scott lambswool

Let me just say that the red Lyle & Scott 1970's lambswool turtleneck at post #101 is amazing. So solid and thick and beautiful! Will be great to create a nice unique look.

- vintage Paul Stuart cardigan (1970's at latest)
Now THAT is possibly the most luxurious cashmere item l own. It is incredible!!! So plush and thicker than usual. I could tell by the way it is made that Ballantyne made it for P.S, and they spared no expense in having the absolute highest quality made. It is so incredible that it will be my `special cardigan'. Yes, it seems better than the usual vintage Ballantyne stuff.
Paul Stuart cashmere cardigan.webp


Honourable mention.
One amazing jumper available was a stunning forest green Hermes made-in-scotland jumper. In great condition apparently, and an amazing price, and l sort of regret not getting it. I passed because it was unfortunately about an inch too long and l was wary about the seller.
Hermes green cashmere jumper 1.webp
 
Last edited:
With the holiday season, and the war on Christmas, in sight, I couldn’t resist getting the following pink number from Ballantyne:

535109A3-3B6D-4CC3-B08D-46F42AE5ECFC.webp
 
Last edited:
The roll neck jumper-only winter wardrobe experiment continues.

Latest arrivals. Lambswool. 5 more in transit including 3 Aran and an alpaca (sweater not the camelid)
IMG_9825.webp
IMG_9826.webp
IMG_9827.webp
 
With the holiday season, and the war on Christmas, in sight, I couldn’t resist getting the following pink number from Ballantyne:

View attachment 26277


Real classic 70's ballantyne there. It reminds me, l really need one more intarsia, something really great to end it all.

The roll neck jumper-only winter wardrobe experiment continues.

Latest arrivals. Lambswool. 5 more in transit including 3 Aran and an alpaca (sweater not the camelid)
View attachment 26278 View attachment 26279 View attachment 26280

Simply amazing Truth. Where did you get them from?

Too hot for me to wear any turtlenecks at the moment, but when the cooler months come l plan to wear them everyday for about 7 - 8 months. I plan to also buy some really fat ones like you buy (manly ones) and buy a few extra fat cardigans (12 ply jobs). That will end my knitwear collecting.

How do you know which decade vintage jumpers are from when buying?

It takes effort. This is a great source to start with. Lots of research went into compiling this info.
https://vintagefashionguild.org/label-resource/pringle-of-scotland/

I also investigate old labels and see what others are saying about how old they are. I also find sellers who own stuff and ask them questions. For ltalian stuff it is much more difficult to find a date.


I have searched for a high quality ORANGE vintage v neck for a long time. I thought l was going to be the owner of this, but it slipped through my fingers. :mustresist: 1960's Pringle. Orange cashmere seems to elude me time after time. Would have went great with some sportscoats. I could get other orange jumpers,but l want it to be a really good vintage scottish cashmere one.
Pringle vintage orange v neck.webp
 
Last edited:
The neck does not hold its shape very long on a wool polo neck, in addition to the issue that they are usually too hot unless you on a submarine.

Cotton polo necks do not have this problem.
 
The neck does not hold its shape very long on a wool polo neck, in addition to the issue that they are usually too hot unless you on a submarine.

Cotton polo necks do not have this problem.

Cotton knitwear sucks and i find cotton knitwear to be the antipodean of what you claim. Easily loses its shape and bags everywhere. And definitely too hot - unless you go for the very thin kind.
 
Cotton knitwear sucks and i find cotton knitwear to be the antipodean of what you claim. Easily loses its shape and bags everywhere. And definitely too hot - unless you go for the very thin kind.

Hmm... well a cotton polo neck is basically a T shirt with long sleeves and a funnel neck. If a T shirt is too hot then I am not sure woollen knitwear will solve the problem.

Big jumpers don’t get much use from most people in the UK these days.
https://www.silvermans.co.uk/products/royal-navy-sub-sweater-white?variant=4198076483

https://www.outdoorknitwear.com/cre...to-crew-neck-sweater.html#/colour-navy/size-l
 
Hmm... well a cotton polo neck is basically a T shirt with long sleeves and a funnel neck. If a T shirt is too hot then I am not sure woollen knitwear will solve the problem.

Big jumpers don’t get much use from most people in the UK these days.
https://www.silvermans.co.uk/products/royal-navy-sub-sweater-white?variant=4198076483

https://www.outdoorknitwear.com/cre...to-crew-neck-sweater.html#/colour-navy/size-l

The issue is no one's house, workplace, or commute on either public transport or car is not cold enough to justify woolly jumpers. Everywhere is overly heated in winter anyway. Certainly in England and The Netherlands.

I've been buying the Brooks Brothers cotton sweaters this year, advertised as spring wear, but good enough for most winters in temperate climes. I took a William Lockie V-neck with me to Tuscany this week: too warm in the airport and even though the temperature drops fast here this time of year at night, it's still too warm to wear.
 
Aran jumper arrived. Nice alien exoskeleton structure
View attachment 26330


Hey Truth,where did you get it from? Looks like a good one mate.

The issue is no one's house, workplace, or commute on either public transport or car is not cold enough to justify woolly jumpers. Everywhere is overly heated in winter anyway. Certainly in England and The Netherlands.

The overheating has become a problem, and now warm clothes are hard to find. Now all one can usually find is thick ugly plastic coats made from china. People no longer know how to dress in proper winter clothing. I have counselled on the art of keeping warm is amazing. I am like their dad, l teach them stuff.

I have a log fire and still wear woolens. Obviously l take my tweed coat off, but l still wear a thermal woolen underlay with cashmere jumpers.

I'd like to see ducted heating go away and for people to start wearing heavy fabrics and 12 plys again.
 
Hey Truth,where did you get it from? Looks like a good one mate.



The overheating has become a problem, and now warm clothes are hard to find. Now all one can usually find is thick ugly plastic coats made from china. People no longer know how to dress in proper winter clothing. I have counselled on the art of keeping warm is amazing. I am like their dad, l teach them stuff.

I have a log fire and still wear woolens. Obviously l take my tweed coat off, but l still wear a thermal woolen underlay with cashmere jumpers.

I'd like to see ducted heating go away and for people to start wearing heavy fabrics and 12 plys again.

Shooey, got it at AranSweaterMarket.com. It has a wool/cashmere blend

When I renovated a house years ago I lived in a shack in the woods in Ontario for 6 months. Wood stove, no running water (cut a hole in the ice in a lake) outdoor toilet. I enjoyed it.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom